Who wants Monty to stay? And why?

[jeffers]

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If Alan Stubbs had taken over the team that we had six months before his arrival as opposed to having something approaching a clean slate to build a new era, he would likely have gotten the sack in the summer.

The team is filled full of Ian Gordon approved failures that aren’t suited to this league. So much deadwood to shift before we can get a clear idea of what any manager wants to do.

I’m fairly confident Alan Stubbs would have done a better job with the squad Monty has had available to him, that’s more of a relevant discussion.

Who are all the Ian Gordon failures that aren’t suited to the league, apart from Tavares ? Unless you are meaning players who just aren’t good enough in which case I’d agree we have more than a few of them.

[SQHib]

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I won’t be upset if he stays.
I was probably the first to suggest Monty for the job on here, based on my close observations of him with. CCM.

With the benefit of hindsight, I didn’t take his overall club inexperience into account enough.

Now I look back on it I see his early mistake in trying to replicate the way the Mariners …indeed nearly all the A League teams play…..open, possession style football….something that doesn’t work when teams ‘sit in’.

He learned from that and changed things.
.

Thnaks for that fred .. this is one of the things I had wondered before .. how did monty play at CCM ? More than top 6 / bottom 6 or impact subs or anything the thing that has grated me most about Montgomery is the possession based style of play he is trying to adopt - I understand the logic behind it but feel its hard to adopt in Scotland unless you really have the best of players ... to me any question to a manager at interview would be "right never mind beating celtic or rangers or the derby ( which IS a game in itself) you are going to get at least 8 teams out of the 12 coming to ER every home game and "sitting in" .. how you going to counteract that ?" .. now you can give monty as much time as you want but if his approach is still what I saw against St J last week its going to end in tears .. slow pedestrian build up from the back "possesion" football giving the back 3 of St J (inc creaking 30+ considine and mcgowan) all the time in the world with the game in front of them .. that needs to change regardless and I don't know if he wants to or can shift to do that .. that is my worry ... we can't "play" these teams off the park .. we're not Man City

[Donegal Hibby]

I think he'll know now what players will need to be moved on as part of a clear out and probably the club has already started to identify signing targets he wants .

I'd give him the summer and his first pre-season at our club which I think is the minimum most managers need . I get why folk want him out though I don't think he's had enough time in one window to have the opportunity of a clear out and get his own players in .

[allezsauzee]

The only reason I can think of is that each time we've sacked a manager in the last 4 years we've somehow managed to replace him with someone worse.

[hibsbollah]

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I won’t be upset if he stays.
I was probably the first to suggest Monty for the job on here, based on my close observations of him with. CCM.

With the benefit of hindsight, I didn’t take his overall club inexperience into account enough.

Now I look back on it I see his early mistake in trying to replicate the way the Mariners …indeed nearly all the A League teams play…..open, possession style football….something that doesn’t work when teams ‘sit in’.

He learned from that and changed things.
One of his remits was to develop young players, and he gave a few a start…..but it cost us, and while I’m sure he will continue to nurture them…I’m pretty sure also that he won’t sacrifice many points in doing it in future.

I,’ve got no doubt if retained MontyMark 2 will be improved due to lessons learned.

Every manager will tell you that they learned something at each club they worked at and I think he learned plenty at Hibs.

It’s not all whitewash though…..I think he needs to reflect on the point that there may not be a need to make substitutes regardless at the 60th or 70th minute……..and be careful who he puts on as ‘impact’ subs…some instances have left me baffled.

He’s made mistakes…all coaches do…and those mistakes will weigh on his shoulders into next season if he remains…no question.

But the benefit of a fair dinkum summer transfer window, and a full preseason are ‘Luxuries’ he has yet to enjoy and no doubt would be a plus for him.

Guess it’s a ‘faith’ thing, I’ve seen enough of him, and got enough faith in him to support a second season…..but my instincts tell me that may not happen.

I can see why people won’t agree though, obviously.

Thats a fair and honest take.

[allezsauzee]

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I think he'll know now what players will need to be moved on as part of a clear out and probably the club has already started to identify signing targets he wants .

I'd give him the summer and his first pre-season at our club which I think is the minimum most managers need . I get why folk want him out though I don't think he's had enough time in one window to have the opportunity of a clear out and get his own players in .

He got to sign 6 of his own players in January, mostly in positions we were relatively well off in. I'm not saying Marcondes and Myziane weren't better than we had but we were ok for attacking options. It was a big red flag for me that when it was clear that he was getting financial backing to sign some quality that he didn't bring in a proven centre half.

[Stevie Reid]

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Apologies misread that

No bother at all WH!

[jeffers]

Maybe a bit extreme but I wonder if Butcher was our manager now there would be some posters coming on here saying we shouldn’t sack him ‘cos we we’ve sacked too many managers recently and he needs a chance to bring his own players in….

[flash]

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Maybe a bit extreme but I wonder if Butcher was our manager now there would be some posters coming on here saying we shouldn’t sack him ‘cos we we’ve sacked too many managers recently and he needs a chance to bring his own players in….

Too far Jeffers, too far.

[jeffers]

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Too far Jeffers, too far.

I’m sure there would be a few.

[hibsbollah]

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Maybe a bit extreme but I wonder if Butcher was our manager now there would be some posters coming on here saying we shouldn’t sack him ‘cos we we’ve sacked too many managers recently and he needs a chance to bring his own players in….

Its not really a fair comparison, Butcher had told his senior players they werent good enough and had stopped playing for him and we were hurtling tiwards a relegation we wouldnt get back from for 3 years. Not binning him at that point was pure negligence. There’s not the same urgency as then because we have a cushion and the only question is, do we give a new guy the final 5 games to bed in or persevere with Monty?

[richard_pitts]

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Thats a fair and honest take.

I am a keeper because i think he deserves a window and pre-season to implement his game plan. We are better than the three straight defeats at the start of the season.

However, we need a serious clear out - there are too many players not of the required standard. I am concerned about our game management (Hearts for example would have won that game 1-0) and lack of pace. Not sure if he cannot get the current players to play that way or if it's his tactics.

Furthermore if he does go, the whole footballing structure, in particular those responsible for three duff appointments in a row, also go.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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Maybe a bit extreme but I wonder if Butcher was our manager now there would be some posters coming on here saying we shouldn’t sack him ‘cos we we’ve sacked too many managers recently and he needs a chance to bring his own players in….

There would be, I’ve no doubt about that.

I wouldn’t be surprised if there was people back then advocating keeping him.

[The Tubs]

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I’m fairly confident Alan Stubbs would have done a better job with the squad Monty has had available to him, that’s more of a relevant discussion.

Who are all the Ian Gordon failures that aren’t suited to the league, apart from Tavares ? Unless you are meaning players who just aren’t good enough in which case I’d agree we have more than a few of them.

I'm confident too that Stubbs would have done a far better job than Butcher with Fenlon's squad. Some nutters even wanted to keep Butcher after relegation.

[Cat Stanton]

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I won’t be upset if he stays.
I was probably the first to suggest Monty for the job on here, based on my close observations of him with. CCM.

With the benefit of hindsight, I didn’t take his overall club inexperience into account enough.

Now I look back on it I see his early mistake in trying to replicate the way the Mariners …indeed nearly all the A League teams play…..open, possession style football….something that doesn’t work when teams ‘sit in’.

He learned from that and changed things.
One of his remits was to develop young players, and he gave a few a start…..but it cost us, and while I’m sure he will continue to nurture them…I’m pretty sure also that he won’t sacrifice many points in doing it in future.

I,’ve got no doubt if retained MontyMark 2 will be improved due to lessons learned.

Every manager will tell you that they learned something at each club they worked at and I think he learned plenty at Hibs.

It’s not all whitewash though…..I think he needs to reflect on the point that there may not be a need to make substitutes regardless at the 60th or 70th minute……..and be careful who he puts on as ‘impact’ subs…some instances have left me baffled.

He’s made mistakes…all coaches do…and those mistakes will weigh on his shoulders into next season if he remains…no question.

But the benefit of a fair dinkum summer transfer window, and a full preseason are ‘Luxuries’ he has yet to enjoy and no doubt would be a plus for him.

Guess it’s a ‘faith’ thing, I’ve seen enough of him, and got enough faith in him to support a second season…..but my instincts tell me that may not happen.

I can see why people won’t agree though, obviously.

Agree with that. Similarly agree with Pat Nevin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hibernian.

[mixumatosis]

I think we need to be honest and accept that for all the good quality additions in January, the squad have to take part of the blame for where we are now. The defence, in particular, are not good enough (and i accept that NM may need to accept at least some of the blame for not recruiting for those positions, though who knows how much say our managers have in transfer dealings nowadays).

Now, any one of us in our own work lives, if we had a new manager brought in, would expect to be given the chance to prove ourselves and to not be judged on the views of that manager's predecessor. The same is true when it comes to our squad. If a new manager comes in you would expect they would want time to assess the players at their disposal and reach their own decision based on seeing them at close quarters, not just on what they might have seen for 90 mins a week. I think sometimes folk think that saying "we go back to square one" is just a phrase, but this is what i take it to mean - that process has to be allowed to happen and that takes time, during which we don't progress.

I'd expect NM to be well down that road now and to know exactly who he thinks is up to the task and who needs to go. If he stays i'd want to see a number of 1st team players being moved on and replaced with better this summer. On the other hand, if he's going to be replaced it needs done immediately, to give the new man time to assess the squad over the next 5 games and to give them that chance to prove they deserve to stay.

I don't honestly know which side of that fence i'm on right now, but it will be the worst of both worlds if we sack him at the end of the season.

[JimBHibees]

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Agree with that. Similarly agree with Pat Nevin: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/hibernian.

Good words from Pat imo.

[Brizo]

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I won’t be upset if he stays.
I was probably the first to suggest Monty for the job on here, based on my close observations of him with. CCM.

With the benefit of hindsight, I didn’t take his overall club inexperience into account enough.

Now I look back on it I see his early mistake in trying to replicate the way the Mariners …indeed nearly all the A League teams play…..open, possession style football….something that doesn’t work when teams ‘sit in’.

He learned from that and changed things.
One of his remits was to develop young players, and he gave a few a start…..but it cost us, and while I’m sure he will continue to nurture them…I’m pretty sure also that he won’t sacrifice many points in doing it in future.

I,’ve got no doubt if retained MontyMark 2 will be improved due to lessons learned.

Every manager will tell you that they learned something at each club they worked at and I think he learned plenty at Hibs.

It’s not all whitewash though…..I think he needs to reflect on the point that there may not be a need to make substitutes regardless at the 60th or 70th minute……..and be careful who he puts on as ‘impact’ subs…some instances have left me baffled.

He’s made mistakes…all coaches do…and those mistakes will weigh on his shoulders into next season if he remains…no question.

But the benefit of a fair dinkum summer transfer window, and a full preseason are ‘Luxuries’ he has yet to enjoy and no doubt would be a plus for him.

Guess it’s a ‘faith’ thing, I’ve seen enough of him, and got enough faith in him to support a second season…..but my instincts tell me that may not happen.

I can see why people won’t agree though, obviously.

A lot of good points and top marks for getting the phrase "fair dinkum" in .

I dont feel that Montgomery has LJ levels of arrogance so he might learn from his mistakes however he's also displayed a certain level of stubbornness and a lack of pragmatism that hasn't changed so I'm 50/50 on whether he will learn from them.

You're right that it's all about faith and I've lost faith. I genuinely don't see him turning it around. The problem is that I've also no faith in our owners getting it right next time after our last three appointments.

Retaining him for "stability" reasons as other posters have suggested doesn't seem much of a case to make in his defence. Ultimately it'll be economic factors that determine his future. Regardless of how we perform in the bottom 6 fixtures I think a significant downturn in ST sales and take-up of existing and new corporate packages will seal his fate.

[Wilson]

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Good words from Pat imo.

Don't agree with him. Sympathy for any coach drives his article and not any critical evaluation of what we're actually seeing.

Pat says "he's done enough". Not so sure about that, Pat. Not sure at all.

[jeffers]

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Don't agree with him. Sympathy for any coach drives his article and not any critical evaluation of what we're actually seeing.

Pat says "he's done enough". Not so sure about that, Pat. Not sure at all.

Agreed. I’d have put more stock in his opinion if he’d come out with better reasons for sticking by him than he needs time or he’s done enough. Tell me what you’ve seen to make you believe he’ll improve things Pat.

[Since452]

Some views here i agree with especially Mickey Stewart and Preston.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...er-fix-4591243

[Stubbsy90+2]

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Don't agree with him. Sympathy for any coach drives his article and not any critical evaluation of what we're actually seeing.

Pat says "he's done enough". Not so sure about that, Pat. Not sure at all.

Agree.

His comments also give off a suggestion that he was seconds away from success.

Obviously there would have been 5 games remaining, but just getting top 6 isn’t a success in itself. His comments read as if getting top 6 would have been job done,successful season with his done enough comments. In reality, that’s absolutely not the case.

[Unseen work]

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Agree.

His comments also give off a suggestion that he was seconds away from success.

Obviously there would have been 5 games remaining, but just getting top 6 isn’t a success in itself. His comments read as if getting top 6 would have been job done,successful season with his done enough comments. In reality, that’s absolutely not the case.

He also speaks about how we ‘progressed’ in the cups as some form of positive.

A semi and quarter final are no where near being considered positive.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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He also speaks about how we ‘progressed’ in the cups as some form of positive.

A semi and quarter final are no where near being considered positive.

I think the cups are at a point of being ‘neutral’ so to speak for me.

If you don’t consider the fixtures and you just consider what stage you got to, then the league cup probably has to be considered a success whilst the Scottish cup has to be deemed a failure.

If you do consider the fixtures though, then I’d say the league cup has to be considered a failure given we got knocked out to the side in 9th place who had 10 men. On the flip side though, the Scottish Cup probably has to be considered as acceptable to an extent because we beat the teams we should have beat and lost to Rangers.

Either way though, I’m not sure either of the cup runs is all that much to shout about, both in a positive and negative sense.

[WeeRussell]

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I think the cups are at a point of being ‘neutral’ so to speak for me.

If you don’t consider the fixtures and you just consider what stage you got to, then the league cup probably has to be considered a success whilst the Scottish cup has to be deemed a failure.

If you do consider the fixtures though, then I’d say the league cup has to be considered a failure given we got knocked out to the side in 9th place who had 10 men. On the flip side though, the Scottish Cup probably has to be considered as acceptable to an extent because we beat the teams we should have beat and lost to Rangers.

Either way though, I’m not sure either of the cup runs is all that much to shout about, both in a positive and negative sense.

Pretty much agree with that.

[Northernhibee]

As much as people accuse me of making excuses for the manager, forgetting about circumstances in regards to these is making excuses against the manager.

Boyle scored a perfectly good goal in that semi final, and it was chalked off. It took two dodgy red cards in the SC game against Rangers to see us out of contention.

Awful bordering on suspicious refereeing decisions in the league this season can’t be far off having cost us between 8-10 points. That would comfortably have seen us in the mix for Europe.


There have been way too many individual errors in the team, but what we’ve been subjected to this season has been a disgrace. There’s a balance that some people ignore.

[hibsbollah]

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As much as people accuse me of making excuses for the manager, forgetting about circumstances in regards to these is making excuses against the manager.

Boyle scored a perfectly good goal in that semi final, and it was chalked off. It took two dodgy red cards in the SC game against Rangers to see us out of contention.

Awful bordering on suspicious refereeing decisions in the league this season can’t be far off having cost us between 8-10 points. That would comfortably have seen us in the mix for Europe.


There have been way too many individual errors in the team, but what we’ve been subjected to this season has been a disgrace. There’s a balance that some people ignore.

In all my years of watching ive never seen a season like it for decisions. And its not just about VAR either.

[Ronniekirk]

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He got to sign 6 of his own players in January, mostly in positions we were relatively well off in. I'm not saying Marcondes and Myziane weren't better than we had but we were ok for attacking options. It was a big red flag for me that when it was clear that he was getting financial backing to sign some quality that he didn't bring in a proven centre half.

Yet Myziane has been our top scorer since he arrived

[Donegal Hibby]

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He got to sign 6 of his own players in January, mostly in positions we were relatively well off in. I'm not saying Marcondes and Myziane weren't better than we had but we were ok for attacking options. It was a big red flag for me that when it was clear that he was getting financial backing to sign some quality that he didn't bring in a proven centre half.

The midfield has been toiling for numerous seasons and imo was the area we most needed to fix . We needed a 10 as we had been playing Vente there at times . 4 out of the 6 we signed in January were midfielders . Don't think we were ever going to solve all our problems in a window that most clubs don't want to lose there best players in .

It will be easier done in the summer with a proper pre-season to help the new players settle in . Wither Monty gets the chance of that I don't know though I hope he does . Interesting read here .

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...bility-4591360

[Stubbsy90+2]

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The midfield has been toiling for numerous seasons and imo was the area we most needed to fix . We needed a 10 as we had been playing Vente there at times . 4 out of the 6 we signed in January were midfielders . Don't think we were ever going to solve all our problems in a window that most clubs don't want to lose there best players in .

It will be easier done in the summer with a proper pre-season to help the new players settle in . Wither Monty gets the chance of that I don't know though I hope he does . Interesting read here .

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.c...bility-4591360

I do find the idea that sacking him will lead to instability. There’s absolutely nothing resembling positive stability at Hibs with Montgomery at the helm.