Scottish (Rangers) Media

[JimBHibees]

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Allan is perhaps in a position where he had facilitated the bias without engineering it - it may simply be that he hasn't had the means or the will to address it and so it's been allowed to grow unchecked - bad things happen when good people say nothing, kind of thing.

There is bound to be internal politics at play as well, he'll need to keep the referees onside with him, and so it's a difficult conversation to have if you're going to effectively call your employees cheats or incompetent.

He'll not be bothered about it now that he's leaving but his successor should be pulling in a couple of the senior referees (who hold down good day jobs), present them with the data and ask them to do an investigation into why there is one club that consistently sits as an outlier and ask them for recommendations as to how to address that.

It's an easy way to say they have a problem without blaming anyone and making the referees accountable for identifying the cause and the solution.

Is there any internal performance reviews of individual referee performances or indeed the whole refereeing structure in Scotland? Seems to me the status quo power base for refereeing in the country is protected at all costs.

[JimBHibees]

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oh oh BrotherJohn beaton referee for sevco v sellick game

Interesting appointment

[Victor]

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Is there any internal performance reviews of individual referee performances or indeed the whole refereeing structure in Scotland? Seems to me the status quo power base for refereeing in the country is protected at all costs.

I keep asking the same question. If there isn’t then one should be set up. No body should be above criticism and complaint.


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[babahibs]

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oh oh BrotherJohn beaton referee for sevco v sellick game

Hunbelievable (not really).

[ancient hibee]

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Is there any internal performance reviews of individual referee performances or indeed the whole refereeing structure in Scotland? Seems to me the status quo power base for refereeing in the country is protected at all costs.

At one time referees were marked by clubs at the end of games. Think it was stopped when it was obvious that marks depended more on game results than refs performance.

[Joe6-2]

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Interesting appointment

You couldn’t make it up

[Joe6-2]

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Is there any internal performance reviews of individual referee performances or indeed the whole refereeing structure in Scotland? Seems to me the status quo power base for refereeing in the country is protected at all costs.

It’s like a dictatorship, clubs literally banned from saying anything about referees

[hibsbollah]

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https://youtu.be/rM1c1KGpw-0?si=nIYP9H7hL9Xpla00
If you can get past the Celtic source, this is a damning analysis of the refereeing in Scotland that wholly favours one club, and where the press trust to cover it for commercial reasons.

It's almost impossible to review the facts presented here and not conclude that there is an institutional bias towards Rangers.

“Impossible to print the findings in Scotland because of commercial considerations “ says a well known media source. Thats why its on a celtic fans youtube not in the MSM.

[Smartie]

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“Impossible to print the findings in Scotland because of commercial considerations “ says a well known media source. Thats why its on a celtic fans youtube not in the MSM.

I can’t pretend I’m not fairly depressed about all things Scottish at the moment but that is a particularly bleak sentiment being expressed.

Makes sense though.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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“Impossible to print the findings in Scotland because of commercial considerations “ says a well known media source. Thats why its on a celtic fans youtube not in the MSM.

Exactly. It’s not worth the hassle basically - a proper investigative journalist would be all over this. The problem they have is the same as the referees - go and do their job properly and they get hounded, their life not worth living due to the bullying they’d get.

[hibsbollah]

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I can’t pretend I’m not fairly depressed about all things Scottish at the moment but that is a particularly bleak sentiment being expressed.

Makes sense though.

One thing i particularly like in the ACSOM video is the expected points analysis of a red card decision or penalty by the yorkshire whistler account. Ive often thought that even the ridiculous red card penalty stats that the likes of Craig Thomson had with us vs hearts for example, would be even more pronounced if the ‘sympathy pen’, when youre losing 4-0 in the 90th minute and the ref FInALLY gives you something after screwing you over all game, was taken into account by some sort of weighting. Expected points per decision helps to do this.

[Hibernian Verse]

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Less than a week after Rodgers was punished for openly criticizing Beaton, the refereeing body have doubled down and appointed him for the next derby. They don't care at this point, they are a law unto themselves and are openly taking the piss. All this after Crawford Allan saying there needs to be less scrutiny on refs, they are almost daring Celtic to start a war. I hope DD at Celtic does just that.

We can't complain that Rangers have an influence on refereeing and then complain that the Celtic manager hasn't managed to influence the appointment?

[hibsbollah]

Average amount of times a team enters the opposition box before a penalty is awarded to them, by opponent;

Hibs 115 times
Celtic 142 times
Rangers 372 times.

Measured between 2021-24, over 100 games.
(Remember, this is an average, so the fact rangers may be in an opponent’s box more often is irrelevant to the unbalanced results).

[snedzuk]

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Is there any internal performance reviews of individual referee performances or indeed the whole refereeing structure in Scotland? Seems to me the status quo power base for refereeing in the country is protected at all costs.

Yeah. The performance review is carried out during the goat sacrificing.

[Gloucester Hibs]

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Average amount of times a team enters the opposition box before a penalty is awarded, by opponent;

Hibs 115 times
Celtic 142 times
Rangers 372 times.

Measured between 2021-24, over 100 games.
(Remember, this is an average, so the fact rangers may be in an opponent’s box more often is irrelevant to the unbalanced results).

That's a good one, as is the average number of fouls committed to cards awarded. Sevco an outlier on that too. You just need to look at the crime count stats from our last 2 games v them. I think on Saturday they committed double the number of fouls yet received the same number of yellow cards.

[hibsbollah]

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That's a good one, as is the average number of fouls committed to cards awarded. Sevco an outlier on that too. You just need to look at the crime count stats from our last 2 games v them. I think on Saturday they committed double the number of fouls yet received the same number of yellow cards.

I thought hard about that one. Perhaps the nature of the type of foul Rangers or Celtic give up explains that? (As the man said, high quality teams play high % possession (celtc 68% ran 62%)normally means high degree of press in the opposition end so perhaps more mundane breakup the play type fouls so less bookings? But no i dont think so, in the modern game bookings are given just as much, or even more, for the sly tug stopping a breakaway in transition than a defender sliding in missing a tackle in his own half.

When you try to find mitigation on some of these stats there just arent any.

[JimBHibees]

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I thought hard about that one. Perhaps the nature of the type of foul Rangers or Celtic give up explains that? (As the man said, high quality teams play high % possession (celtc 68% ran 62%)normally means high degree of press in the opposition end so perhaps more mundane breakup the play type fouls so less bookings? But no i dont think so, in the modern game bookings are given just as much, or even more, for the sly tug stopping a breakaway in transition than a defender sliding in missing a tackle in his own half.

When you try to find mitigation on some of these stats there just arent any.

Totally agree there simply is not any justification for the numbers other than two teams treated differently and one team given incredible latitude. It is excellent to see the analysis over a number of seasons and also the use of a completely neutral pro referee with no skin in the game so to speak. Personally have never seen it as bad as it has been since they came back into the league. Something fundamentally stinks that is for sure.

[Hibby70]

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Average amount of times a team enters the opposition box before a penalty is awarded, by opponent;

Hibs 115 times
Celtic 142 times
Rangers 372 times.

Measured between 2021-24, over 100 games.
(Remember, this is an average, so the fact rangers may be in an opponent’s box more often is irrelevant to the unbalanced results).

Is there a full list for this ?

[JimBHibees]

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Is there a full list for this ?

It is in the podcast Matty linked to earlier in thread

[hibsbollah]

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Is there a full list for this ?

33mins into the link. Hibs come out 2nd most likely to concede a penalty based on box entry, behind only Aberdeen. But the significant stat is Rangers being way way beyond any other team at the other end of the scale.

[Hibby70]

Thanks, will give it a listen. Would be good to get a full copy of his data somehow.

[CentreLine]

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Thanks, will give it a listen. Would be good to get a full copy of his data somehow.

Your wish is answered. All the stats are displayed during the podcast. It really is well put together.

[Jones28]

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https://youtu.be/rM1c1KGpw-0?si=nIYP9H7hL9Xpla00
If you can get past the Celtic source, this is a damning analysis of the refereeing in Scotland that wholly favours one club, and where the press trust to cover it for commercial reasons.

It's almost impossible to review the facts presented here and not conclude that there is an institutional bias towards Rangers.

Agree with all this, superb analysis.

The Celtic-flavoured delivery is still quite hard to listen to though.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Agree with all this, superb analysis.

The Celtic-flavoured delivery is still quite hard to listen to though.

The dedication to calling them “the” rangers is exceptional.

[Jones28]

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The dedication to calling them “the” rangers is exceptional.

It really is, I think it might be the most tiresome piece of "banter" we've ever seen, it's up there with spoon-burners for me.

[Rumble de Thump]

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It really is, I think it might be the most tiresome piece of "banter" we've ever seen, it's up there with spoon-burners for me.

More tiresome than people calling them 'Rangers'?

[Jones28]

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More tiresome than people calling them 'Rangers'?

I'd rather not have to call them anything in all honesty.

[Ringothedog]

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It really is, I think it might be the most tiresome piece of "banter" we've ever seen, it's up there with spoon-burners for me.

Do their supporters not use the phrase “The Rangers” when asked what team they support? A bit like me when I say I support “The Hibs” when asked the question. I really do not see the issue as there are plenty worse names that club and it’s followers could be called

[hibsbollah]

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Do their supporters not use the phrase “The Rangers” when asked what team they support? A bit like me when I say I support “The Hibs” when asked the question. I really do not see the issue as there are plenty worse names that club and it’s followers could be called

when theres a deadly serious subject to be discussed instead. Call them currants, zombies, TEITR if you like, pure distraction and irrelevant.

[Jones28]

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Do their supporters not use the phrase “The Rangers” when asked what team they support? A bit like me when I say I support “The Hibs” when asked the question. I really do not see the issue as there are plenty worse names that club and it’s followers could be called

Nah of course, it's a very trivial matter.