R☆☆☆☆☆s catholic players

[matty_f]

I genuinely struggle with how reasonable, intelligent, good people can support Rangers in good conscience. Would you want to be associated with a club that is knee-deep in anti-Catholic (or anti-anything, really) hatred. You know that, by association, people think you are a bigot. You know that you are paying into it, condoning it and perpetuating the hatred. You validate it with your ongoing support.

Just how could you? Many posters have rightly asked what if anti-Catholic hatred was treated the same as racism, would you follow a team that was widely accepted to be known for being anti-black, for example? Most reasonable people would go to every effort to condemn that and disassociate themselves with it.

But Rangers fans lap it up. The club itself laps it up with their weird royal family paintings in the dressing room, the Armed Forces Day stuff, the sashes on the strip... they absolutely play on it because it makes them money.

[One Day Soon]

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I genuinely struggle with how reasonable, intelligent, good people can support Rangers in good conscience. Would you want to be associated with a club that is knee-deep in anti-Catholic (or anti-anything, really) hatred. You know that, by association, people think you are a bigot. You know that you are paying into it, condoning it and perpetuating the hatred. You validate it with your ongoing support.

Just how could you? Many posters have rightly asked what if anti-Catholic hatred was treated the same as racism, would you follow a team that was widely accepted to be known for being anti-black, for example? Most reasonable people would go to every effort to condemn that and disassociate themselves with it.

But Rangers fans lap it up. The club itself laps it up with their weird royal family paintings in the dressing room, the Armed Forces Day stuff, the sashes on the strip... they absolutely play on it because it makes them money.

The Ugly Sisters: over a century of making money from misery. https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?...pporters/page6

[ancient hibee]

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I genuinely struggle with how reasonable, intelligent, good people can support Rangers in good conscience. Would you want to be associated with a club that is knee-deep in anti-Catholic (or anti-anything, really) hatred. You know that, by association, people think you are a bigot. You know that you are paying into it, condoning it and perpetuating the hatred. You validate it with your ongoing support.

Just how could you? Many posters have rightly asked what if anti-Catholic hatred was treated the same as racism, would you follow a team that was widely accepted to be known for being anti-black, for example? Most reasonable people would go to every effort to condemn that and disassociate themselves with it.

But Rangers fans lap it up. The club itself laps it up with their weird royal family paintings in the dressing room, the Armed Forces Day stuff, the sashes on the strip... they absolutely play on it because it makes them money.

A strange take on it. Why do you associate the royal family and the armed forces with bigoted anti Catholicism.

[Kato]

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A strange take on it. Why do you associate the royal family and the armed forces with bigoted anti Catholicism.

One is an anti-catholic institution and the is perceived to be after the years of the troubles in Ireland?

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[KWJ]

Made the mistake of having a glance at FF to see if any of them were showing humanity towards Boyle (a few were fighting against the tide, take my hat off to them), most weren't and some were under the impression that he was roundly applauded off the park. I mind while watching live that I only saw 3 people in the lower deck clapping. I heard about the singing afterwards.

But what's the point in conversing with any of them when they allow a member to have the name "UpToMyKnees".

[Kato]

There is no point. If any Rangers fan came out in public against their clubs "culture" they'd need 24 police protection. So any decent conversation is never going to happen.

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[ErinGoBraghHFC]

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A strange take on it. Why do you associate the royal family and the armed forces with bigoted anti Catholicism.

The armed forces are and have been, by and large anti (Irish) Catholicism. Their actions since 1919 have consistently shown that.


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[heidtheba]

I remember reading about Basile Boli. He said I didn't realise what it was like, or why they wanted him or how he was expected to fit in. He said he heard the stories and the 'songs' and saw the picture of the Queen in the changing room and thought "What is a black, French, Catholic, republican' doing here?!"

I'm pretty sure Alex Ferguson's documentary talks about his regret not being telling them to 'bolt' when someone (IIRC) suggested he'd not progess well due to having a Catholic wife.

[WeeRussell]

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I genuinely struggle with how reasonable, intelligent, good people can support Rangers in good conscience. Would you want to be associated with a club that is knee-deep in anti-Catholic (or anti-anything, really) hatred. You know that, by association, people think you are a bigot. You know that you are paying into it, condoning it and perpetuating the hatred. You validate it with your ongoing support.

Was making a similar point after the game to friends, Matty. Even for those that have just ‘grown up as rangers fans’ and never got involved in any of that ****. Surely it must be embarrassing to have your team associated in any way with that sort of hatred. Never mind the whole club being formed and maintained through it.

[superfurryhibby]

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I'm fully aware of the historical context of the word "Fenian" and that many of its members were Protestants.

I'm also fully aware that language changes over the centuries and that in the 20th and 21st centuries, it's become a term of abuse used by fans of The Rangers towards anyone of, or perceived to be of , Irish Catholic heritage.

Can't agree with the Irish Catholic heritage part. Going by social media, these terms are randomly applied to anyone who criticises their horrible club, Catholic, Irish origin or otherwise.

[matty_f]

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A strange take on it. Why do you associate the royal family and the armed forces with bigoted anti Catholicism.

For me it’s less about what they represent than what Rangers fans believe they represent. They lean into the Armed Forces Day stuff because of Ireland’s troubles and because the royal family are seen as the enemy by many of the people they profess to hate.

[Smartie]

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I genuinely struggle with how reasonable, intelligent, good people can support Rangers in good conscience. Would you want to be associated with a club that is knee-deep in anti-Catholic (or anti-anything, really) hatred. You know that, by association, people think you are a bigot. You know that you are paying into it, condoning it and perpetuating the hatred. You validate it with your ongoing support.

Just how could you? Many posters have rightly asked what if anti-Catholic hatred was treated the same as racism, would you follow a team that was widely accepted to be known for being anti-black, for example? Most reasonable people would go to every effort to condemn that and disassociate themselves with it.

But Rangers fans lap it up. The club itself laps it up with their weird royal family paintings in the dressing room, the Armed Forces Day stuff, the sashes on the strip... they absolutely play on it because it makes them money.

I think you probably come from the West of Scotland and fall in love with the same beautiful game as we all did, wanting to run about a park pretending to be Davie Cooper or Brian Laudrup or Todd Cantwell or whoever.

At some point down the road comes 17th century Irish politics, hating catholics and all the rest of it.

In my experience it's perfectly possible to be from the West, take the bits of supporting the club you like and leave the rest of it. Those from the rest of the country tend to get involved with the club in the first place because they're attracted to all the crap for some reason.

I know decent Rangers fans and tbh I'm as likely to bump up close to the boundaries of acceptability in conversations with them as they are. A big difference would be that they'd be more likely to condone, defend or downplay the unacceptable conduct of fellow fans, whereas I've got no desire whatsoever to defend folk singing about the Ibrox disaster or the like.

[hibsbollah]

Ive just seen that the Europa league final is going to be held in Dublin of all places.

If they actually reach the final…the mind boggles.

[matty_f]

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I think you probably come from the West of Scotland and fall in love with the same beautiful game as we all did, wanting to run about a park pretending to be Davie Cooper or Brian Laudrup or Todd Cantwell or whoever.

At some point down the road comes 17th century Irish politics, hating catholics and all the rest of it.

In my experience it's perfectly possible to be from the West, take the bits of supporting the club you like and leave the rest of it. Those from the rest of the country tend to get involved with the club in the first place because they're attracted to all the crap for some reason.

I know decent Rangers fans and tbh I'm as likely to bump up close to the boundaries of acceptability in conversations with them as they are. A big difference would be that they'd be more likely to condone, defend or downplay the unacceptable conduct of fellow fans, whereas I've got no desire whatsoever to defend folk singing about the Ibrox disaster or the like.

I get that, but there’s a point where as grown ups we realise the rights and wrongs of what we’re buying into and what we’re associated with, and then still choosing to be seen as that.

I always imagine it being like American History X but instead of realising the views are abhorrent and distancing yourself from them, you go “but the social life is good” so I’ll stick with these neo-nazi backward gimps.

[superfurryhibby]

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Ive just seen that the Europa league final is going to be held in Dublin of all places.

If they actually reach the final…the mind boggles.

That would be......unimaginable.

They won't get there though

My wee brother, baptised, he started supporting Rangers at the start of the Souness era. He was taken through to Ibrox by some pal of his and their dad, that was the wee bam hooked on huns.
He was only about twelve, but even then......

[Baader]

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A strange take on it. Why do you associate the royal family and the armed forces with bigoted anti Catholicism.

Probably because they are?

[Brizo]

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Can't agree with the Irish Catholic heritage part. Going by social media, these terms are randomly applied to anyone who criticises their horrible club, Catholic, Irish origin or otherwise.

Agree that anyone who disagrees with their worldview is no doubt labelled a "fenian" including the majority of Hibs fans who I'd guess are atheist or Protestant. If however your suggesting that when used by The Rangers supporters against us it's not because of our origins and their ignorant perception of what constitutes a Hibs fan then we'll need to disagree on that.

[Smartie]

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I get that, but there’s a point where as grown ups we realise the rights and wrongs of what we’re buying into and what we’re associated with, and then still choosing to be seen as that.

I always imagine it being like American History X but instead of realising the views are abhorrent and distancing yourself from them, you go “but the social life is good” so I’ll stick with these neo-nazi backward gimps.

Worth realising though that their world view probably sees the life of a Hibs supporter as being that of an IRA sympathiser who likes mocking the Ibrox disaster, enjoys assaulting Rangers players on the Hampden pitch and chucks corkscrews about, not believing that there are any decent folk amongst us as surely at some point decent folk wake up to this nonsense and choose to do something else?

[Malthibby]

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I like a bit of hyperbole now and again, and have no compunction in calling them all out as neo-Nazi white supremists.

That's euphemism, that is......

[Malthibby]

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A strange take on it. Why do you associate the royal family and the armed forces with bigoted anti Catholicism.

I'm an atheist myself but I think it's reasonable for Catholics to doubt an institution which specifically bars Catholics from the top job.

[matty_f]

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Worth realising though that their world view probably sees the life of a Hibs supporter as being that of an IRA sympathiser who likes mocking the Ibrox disaster, enjoys assaulting Rangers players on the Hampden pitch and chucks corkscrews about, not believing that there are any decent folk amongst us as surely at some point decent folk wake up to this nonsense and choose to do something else?

I get that as well, however the evidence tells us as Hibs fans that those guys are the tiny minority of the support, those things aren’t ingrained in the club. That’s very different to what the evidence tells Rangers fans about Rangers fans.

[Smartie]

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I get that as well, however the evidence tells us as Hibs fans that those guys are the tiny minority of the support, those things aren’t ingrained in the club. That’s very different to what the evidence tells Rangers fans about Rangers fans.

The thing about Rangers fans though is that there are absolutely loads of them. Millions. When there's so many, it's harder than ever to generalise.

Amongst that huge number there is an incredibly vocal section, who knows how large it is. Even if it actually is a minority, it is massive.

There were fans applauding Boyle off the pitch in their end. There were probably thousands at home muttering about it being bang out of order that the song that was being sung was being sung (even if only because they knew it might come back and bite them). There will have been others revelling in the occasion.

They're an odd bunch for sure, but I've met enough decent ones (a fair few over the years who have actually even been to ER in my company to watch games not involving Rangers, in the Hibs end - something I wouldn't be reciprocating at Ibrox) to make me uncomfortable about questioning the very existence of decent Rangers fans.

Not to say that I don't question that for a couple of days in the aftermath of every single Rangers Hibs game right enough.

[Kato]

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I remember reading about Basile Boli. He said I didn't realise what it was like, or why they wanted him or how he was expected to fit in. He said he heard the stories and the 'songs' and saw the picture of the Queen in the changing room and thought "What is a black, French, Catholic, republican' doing here?!"

I'm pretty sure Alex Ferguson's documentary talks about his regret not being telling them to 'bolt' when someone (IIRC) suggested he'd not progess well due to having a Catholic wife.

Alex McLeish said he was disgusted with Rangers' sectarianism and wanted nothing to do with it before being poached by them behind Hibs backs and taking up the post as their manager.

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[Carheenlea]

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Agree that anyone who disagrees with their worldview is no doubt labelled a "fenian" including the majority of Hibs fans who I'd guess are atheist or Protestant. If however your suggesting that when used by The Rangers supporters against us it's not because of our origins and their ignorant perception of what constitutes a Hibs fan then we'll need to disagree on that.

The first time I ever heard the word fenian was when I was called one by an older Hearts fan. I had to look the word up in the dictionary as I wasn’t sure what it meant, and even after learning the word I was still scratching my head as to why I was labelled as such with being neither catholic, Irish or republican. Soon became obvious that it was just a generic term used as to insult Celtic or Hibs fans, regardless of whether anyone came from Irish catholic backgrounds or not.

The same kind of imbeciles who refer to anyone of darker skin to themselves as a “Paki” regardless of their cultural heritage.

[WeeRussell]

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The thing about Rangers fans though is that there are absolutely loads of them. Millions. When there's so many, it's harder than ever to generalise.

Amongst that huge number there is an incredibly vocal section, who knows how large it is. Even if it actually is a minority, it is massive.

There were fans applauding Boyle off the pitch in their end. There were probably thousands at home muttering about it being bang out of order that the song that was being sung was being sung (even if only because they knew it might come back and bite them). There will have been others revelling in the occasion.

They're an odd bunch for sure, but I've met enough decent ones (a fair few over the years who have actually even been to ER in my company to watch games not involving Rangers, in the Hibs end - something I wouldn't be reciprocating at Ibrox) to make me uncomfortable about questioning the very existence of decent Rangers fans.

Not to say that I don't question that for a couple of days in the aftermath of every single Rangers Hibs game right enough.

It’s definitely not a vocal minority that are coming and singing bigoted songs at Easter road. Every single time.

Out of interest Smartie, do any of your rangers pals actively ‘disagree’ with or condemn the nonsense, or is it more that they don’t get involved in it?

Out of all the Rangers fans I’ve ever met in my life, I’ve met a few that claim to not be interested it or involved (some of them I know to be truthful in that regard), but I easily could count on one hand the amount that are or have been rangers fans and make it clear they completely disapprove of it.

[Smartie]

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It’s definitely not a vocal minority that are coming and singing bigoted songs at Easter road. Every single time.

I know it’s not.

But I’d probably suggest that of the Rangers support as a whole, the ones who would want and be able to get tickets for games at Easter Road are likely to be the most fetid, repulsive headbanger element of their support.

The more reasonable ones will probably be watching from home.

[WeeRussell]

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I know it’s not.

But I’d probably suggest that of the Rangers support as a whole, the ones who would want and be able to get tickets for games at Easter Road are likely to be the most fetid, repulsive headbanger element of their support.

The more reasonable ones will probably be watching from home.

Edited my post to expand mate - wasn’t meant to come across as snippy towards you 👍

[Smartie]

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It’s definitely not a vocal minority that are coming and singing bigoted songs at Easter road. Every single time.

Out of interest Smartie, do any of your rangers pals actively ‘disagree’ with or condemn the nonsense, or is it more that they don’t get involved in it?

Out of all the Rangers fans I’ve ever met in my life, I’ve met a few that claim to not be interested it or involved (some of them I know to be truthful in that regard), but I easily could count on one hand the amount that are or have been rangers fans and make it clear they completely disapprove of it.

Sorry - just saw edit.

I know loads, some claim not to be interested, some claim to be against it, some I believe, some I don’t.

There’s also that weird West coast thing that’s hard to get your head around - where there’s a very thin line between hatred, humour and affection. They sort of hate each other but also love each other and thrive on the “banter” - very weird as an outsider looking in and weird when it’s exported elsewhere.

[DH1875]

Liverpool V the rangers in Dublin.

[JimBHibees]

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Ive just seen that the Europa league final is going to be held in Dublin of all places.

If they actually reach the final…the mind boggles.

Yes they were singing about it on Sunday.