VAR and biased refs

[stalbanshibby]

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It seems a bit unrealistic. You'd be undermining them in their place of work, that would be the claim.

What we need is a 'calciopoli'. Any non-Juve fan will tell you prior to 2006 that they got all the decisions, multiple examples of dodgy decisions in big games and some other parallel bias, always involving the big clubs. Then the Calcipoli scandal hit and what the fans were saying all along was proved to be true. The reason they got caught though was wire taps; which is a big thing in italian society, they think more phones are tapped in Italy than there are actual phones. I also think gambling is a much bigger thing among refs and players than we'd like to think it is. It would be weird if it wasn't, its basically rammed down the throat of everyone else these days. Bookies giving odds on first throw in/first booking? Basically an open invitation for an official to help make someone a few quid.

Does anyone have any insight as to how the SFA pair officials with matches? Is it random? Or are affiliations/ predispositions/ allegiances taken into account - that's what I was getting at really. I haven't a clue. Does anyone (other than the SFA) know how it's done? In the interest of transparency (why should it be a behind closed doors thang?), I would be interested to know, and I also wonder if anyone in the media has ever asked them? I don't recall ever seeing any article on this.

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottis...-appointments/ tells you hee haw

[hibsbollah]

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Does anyone have any insight as to how the SFA pair officials with matches? Is it random? Or are affiliations taken into account - that's what I was getting at really. I haven't a clue. Does anyone (other than the SFA) know how it's done? And in the interest of transparency, I would be interested to know, and I also wonder if anyone in the media has ever asked them? I don't recall ever seeing any article on this.

No idea, they announce it the Monday before the weekend games IIRC.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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Burying his head in the trough, more like, just like he is/was with Budge & Hearts. Spiers tried to shout it out about derhun, now effectively banished from Scotland. BBC gave in to derhun in the end, so their journo was silenced. Mikey Stewart shouted it out, now muzzled.

Jim Spence….

[Carheenlea]

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Jim Spence….

One of the worst cases of bullying of a journalist by a member club we’ve seen.

Spence on being asked what his low point of working for the BBC was -


“The now well-known farrago concerning a remark about Rangers during the old club, new club debate. I’d been tipped off by a source at Ibrox that John McLelland would be returning as chairman. I ran the story and a couple of nights later posed a question to two guests on Sportsound, which many other football fans in Scotland were asking.

“Referring to McLelland return I said ‘John McLelland who was chairman of the old club, some people will tell you the club, well the club that died, possibly coming back in terms of the new chairman’.“It wasn’t the most graceful effort at flowing prose, granted, but in a live unscripted radio discussion, that isn’t uncommon. There were 400 complaints from Rangers fans that my comments were inaccurate and misleading and the BBC Trust became involved. The situation dragged on for a long while before they ruled that there had been no breach of editorial guidelines. There was a sustained campaign of pretty vicious abuse on social media with threats directed at my family and myself.”

“The upside was the unbelievable support which I received from fans of other clubs in Scotland.

“A petition in support of me with over a thousand signatures was signed by supporters of other clubs and that was very welcome and heartening. In particular Aberdeen fans were terrific in their backing with their ‘We are all Jim Spence’ banner, which they unveiled at an away game at Firhill and at BBC HQ in Glasgow.”



Once they managed to get Spence removed they turned their attentions to Chris McLaughlin as they continued to attempt to dictate the media narrative, led by the despicable Jim Traynor.

[JimBHibees]

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Does anyone have any insight as to how the SFA pair officials with matches? Is it random? Or are affiliations/ predispositions/ allegiances taken into account - that's what I was getting at really. I haven't a clue. Does anyone (other than the SFA) know how it's done? In the interest of transparency (why should it be a behind closed doors thang?), I would be interested to know, and I also wonder if anyone in the media has ever asked them? I don't recall ever seeing any article on this.

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/scottis...-appointments/ tells you hee haw

Assume they will argue that there is such a small ref pool to choose from they aren't in a position to not give games to refs who may have an affiliation or support for a particular team. The fact that top league spfl refs only come from two or three refereeing associations and would automatically make that pool smaller than it should be is likely ignored.

[JimBHibees]

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One of the worst cases of bullying of a journalist by a member club we’ve seen.

Spence on being asked what his low point of working for the BBC was -


“The now well-known farrago concerning a remark about Rangers during the old club, new club debate. I’d been tipped off by a source at Ibrox that John McLelland would be returning as chairman. I ran the story and a couple of nights later posed a question to two guests on Sportsound, which many other football fans in Scotland were asking.

“Referring to McLelland return I said ‘John McLelland who was chairman of the old club, some people will tell you the club, well the club that died, possibly coming back in terms of the new chairman’.“It wasn’t the most graceful effort at flowing prose, granted, but in a live unscripted radio discussion, that isn’t uncommon. There were 400 complaints from Rangers fans that my comments were inaccurate and misleading and the BBC Trust became involved. The situation dragged on for a long while before they ruled that there had been no breach of editorial guidelines. There was a sustained campaign of pretty vicious abuse on social media with threats directed at my family and myself.”

“The upside was the unbelievable support which I received from fans of other clubs in Scotland.

“A petition in support of me with over a thousand signatures was signed by supporters of other clubs and that was very welcome and heartening. In particular Aberdeen fans were terrific in their backing with their ‘We are all Jim Spence’ banner, which they unveiled at an away game at Firhill and at BBC HQ in Glasgow.”



Once they managed to get Spence removed they turned their attentions to Chris McLaughlin as they continued to attempt to dictate the media narrative, led by the despicable Jim Traynor.

That was despicable and so cowardly from the BBC. Always liked Spence seemed honest and genuinely enthusiastic about the game.

[hibsbollah]

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One of the worst cases of bullying of a journalist by a member club we’ve seen.

Spence on being asked what his low point of working for the BBC was -


“The now well-known farrago concerning a remark about Rangers during the old club, new club debate. I’d been tipped off by a source at Ibrox that John McLelland would be returning as chairman. I ran the story and a couple of nights later posed a question to two guests on Sportsound, which many other football fans in Scotland were asking.

“Referring to McLelland return I said ‘John McLelland who was chairman of the old club, some people will tell you the club, well the club that died, possibly coming back in terms of the new chairman’.“It wasn’t the most graceful effort at flowing prose, granted, but in a live unscripted radio discussion, that isn’t uncommon. There were 400 complaints from Rangers fans that my comments were inaccurate and misleading and the BBC Trust became involved. The situation dragged on for a long while before they ruled that there had been no breach of editorial guidelines. There was a sustained campaign of pretty vicious abuse on social media with threats directed at my family and myself.”

“The upside was the unbelievable support which I received from fans of other clubs in Scotland.

“A petition in support of me with over a thousand signatures was signed by supporters of other clubs and that was very welcome and heartening. In particular Aberdeen fans were terrific in their backing with their ‘We are all Jim Spence’ banner, which they unveiled at an away game at Firhill and at BBC HQ in Glasgow.”



Once they managed to get Spence removed they turned their attentions to Chris McLaughlin as they continued to attempt to dictate the media narrative, led by the despicable Jim Traynor.

I think I can trump that, Alex Thomson, award winning Channel 4 journalist, who won awards for his investigations into Northern Ireland shoot to kill policy and Hillsborough, was the first major English based journalist to cover the Rangers tax story. Look at the original story, which we're all now familiar with, and the second story, which is really shocking, about the campaign of intimidation with some interesting names mentioned.

Revealed: the payments that may lead to Rangers’ downfall – Channel 4 News
Threats and silence: the intimidation by Rangers fans – Alex Thomson – Channel 4 News

[WhileTheChief..]

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It seems a bit unrealistic. You'd be undermining them in their place of work, that would be the claim.

What we need is a 'calciopoli'. Any non-Juve fan will tell you prior to 2006 that they got all the decisions, multiple examples of dodgy decisions in big games and some other parallel bias, always involving the big clubs. Then the Calcipoli scandal hit and what the fans were saying all along was proved to be true. The reason they got caught though was wire taps; which is a big thing in italian society, they think more phones are tapped in Italy than there are actual phones. I also think gambling is a much bigger thing among refs and players than we'd like to think it is. It would be weird if it wasn't, its basically rammed down the throat of everyone else these days. Bookies giving odds on first throw in/first booking? Basically an open invitation for an official to help make someone a few quid.

I'd have thought this would have already happened if there was anything actually going on?

It would be an absolutely, mind-blowingly, big news story for someone to break.

[hibsbollah]

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I'd have thought this would have already happened if there was anything actually going on?

It would be an absolutely, mind-blowingly, big news story for someone to break.

Gambling is a huge industry. Gambling has long established links to organised crime because its such a great way to launder money. Gambling manipulation in sport has always happened, theres been many big news stories broken across the world and that will continue to happen, and its just a drop in the ocean because of the difficulty of proving what goes on when money changes hands informally. Its also a global industry, so it makes no sense to think that the manipulation of it just exists where its been discovered before, like India or the USA or Italy. I dont think that’s controversial or factually incorrect.

Referees favouring big clubs is pretty hard to prove, whether it’s institutional bias, corruption because of gambling or personal preference for one team over another. Then theres just subconscious bias, where a ref just wants a quiet life and not to give decisions against the noisiest angriest fan base and on socisl media. Theres a lot of layers to it and its not a straightforward case of they all sign a bit of paper in a wee hut in darkest Lanarkshire all saying im going to be a big cheat.

[stalbanshibby]

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Gambling is a huge industry. Gambling has long established links to organised crime because its such a great way to launder money. Gambling manipulation in sport has always happened, theres been many big news stories broken across the world and that will continue to happen, and its just a drop in the ocean because of the difficulty of proving what goes on when money changes hands informally. Its also a global industry, so it makes no sense to think that the manipulation of it just exists where its been discovered before, like India or the USA or Italy. I dont think that’s controversial or factually incorrect.

Referees favouring big clubs is pretty hard to prove, whether it’s institutional bias, corruption because of gambling or personal preference for one team over another. Then theres just subconscious bias, where a ref just wants a quiet life and not to give decisions against the noisiest angriest fan base and on socisl media. Theres a lot of layers to it and its not a straightforward case of they all sign a bit of paper in a wee hut in darkest Lanarkshire all saying im going to be a big cheat.

Good post

[WhileTheChief..]

A lot of referees have professional careers outside the game that I doubt they would want to jeopardise. What's in it for them compared to the risk of what they could lose?

I also very much doubt any of them are involved in organised crime or gambling manipulation. Certainly no more so than any player in the country.

[MWHIBBIES]

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It seems a bit unrealistic. You'd be undermining them in their place of work, that would be the claim.

What we need is a 'calciopoli'. Any non-Juve fan will tell you prior to 2006 that they got all the decisions, multiple examples of dodgy decisions in big games and some other parallel bias, always involving the big clubs. Then the Calcipoli scandal hit and what the fans were saying all along was proved to be true. The reason they got caught though was wire taps; which is a big thing in italian society, they think more phones are tapped in Italy than there are actual phones. I also think gambling is a much bigger thing among refs and players than we'd like to think it is. It would be weird if it wasn't, its basically rammed down the throat of everyone else these days. Bookies giving odds on first throw in/first booking? Basically an open invitation for an official to help make someone a few quid.

Calciopoli involved a lot more than just Juventus.

There were no evidence of match fixing or refereeing favours that aided Juventus. They, along with Lazio, Milan and Fiorentina, had a say in which referees were chosen for some matches. Obviously not okay but not deemed directly to be fixing matches (although I'd probably disagree). It's incorrect to say juventus got all the decisions for years and this just stopped. The investigation involved about 30 matches, not even that many involving juventus, over the previous 2 years.

I don't think players or managers knew anything about this. It was a few directors at those clubs.

The whole thing was a shambles and still rambles on.

The current Barcelona scandal is worse imo.

[hibsbollah]

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Calciopoli involved a lot more than just Juventus.

There were no evidence of match fixing or refereeing favours that aided Juventus. They, along with Lazio, Milan and Fiorentina, had a say in which referees were chosen for some matches. Obviously not okay.

I don't think players or managers knew anything about this. It was a few directors at those clubs.

The whole thing was a shambles and still rambles on.

The current Barcelona scandal is worse imo.

I recommend Tobias Jones’ book ‘The Dark Heart of Italy’ on this. The point about it ‘still rambling on’ is that in Italy the judicial system doesnt work. Every legal judgement, no matter how watertight, gets appealed, which then takes years, and appeals then get appealed. The only reason Juve werent found guilty of matchfixing is because of the abuse of process.

You’re right other clubs were involved, i did mention ‘other big clubs’ in my original post

[JimBHibees]

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I think I can trump that, Alex Thomson, award winning Channel 4 journalist, who won awards for his investigations into Northern Ireland shoot to kill policy and Hillsborough, was the first major English based journalist to cover the Rangers tax story. Look at the original story, which we're all now familiar with, and the second story, which is really shocking, about the campaign of intimidation with some interesting names mentioned.

Revealed: the payments that may lead to Rangers’ downfall – Channel 4 News
Threats and silence: the intimidation by Rangers fans – Alex Thomson – Channel 4 News

Simply says it all.

[Hibby70]

Apologies if it's already been discussed but do Hibs not decide if we use VAR tomorrow or not? Would have been good to make a point if we decided against it.

[overdrive]

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Apologies if it's already been discussed but do Hibs not decide if we use VAR tomorrow or not? Would have been good to make a point if we decided against it.

No. If it’s on TV and the ground has VAR, then it must be used.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Apologies if it's already been discussed but do Hibs not decide if we use VAR tomorrow or not? Would have been good to make a point if we decided against it.

Why? It would absolutely not benefit Hibs to not use it. The refs would give decisions anyway

[matty_f]

Big discussion on VAR on Spourtsound this afternoon. It’s not popular.

[Donegal Hibby]

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Why? It would absolutely not benefit Hibs to not use it. The refs would give decisions anyway

Doesn't benefit us to often when we do use it either. It also doesn't add much to games apart from stoppages anyhow and is killing the game Imo .

[JimBHibees]

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Why? It would absolutely not benefit Hibs to not use it. The refs would give decisions anyway

Gives two refs the chance to do us over rather than just one

[Kato]

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Big discussion on VAR on Spourtsound this afternoon. It’s not popular.

VAR shouldn't be called out as the problem.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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No. If it’s on TV and the ground has VAR, then it must be used.

That’ll be More angles to capture the snippet required to support the favoured teams…

[Donegal Hibby]

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Gives two refs the chance to do us over rather than just one

I wonder if the Wenger offside rule came in and the current crazy handball rule was changed would it help in we wouldn't need to use VAR as much in games ? .

[Paul1642]

Another game, another opportunity to revive this thread.

I genially can’t member I season where I feel Hibs have come of so poorly from refereeing decisions. It seems to be almost every game at the moment and it’s certainly not ‘levelling itself out’.

[Just Alf]

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Another game, another opportunity to revive this thread.

I genially can’t member I season where I feel Hibs have come of so poorly from refereeing decisions. It seems to be almost every game at the moment and it’s certainly not ‘levelling itself out’.

I'm not as friendly as you about it, I'm raging.



And apologies... i lnow its the bloody spell checker!

[HarpOnHibee]

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VAR shouldn't be called out as the problem.

Correct. VAR simply gives referees the opportunity to overturn decisions that they get wrong. The fault is with themselves when their egos (or bias) are too great to do so. Blaming a very straight forward piece of technology lets them off the hook.

[overdrive]

Nothing will change until the GFA realises that every single referee in this country is at best grossly incompetent.

[BILLYHIBS]

I think we all saw that coming

Hibs were never winning that

Hopefully a watershed moment

Time to call out the weak biased officials but we all know nothing will happen

Top six here we come

[Hibees1973]

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I think we all saw that coming

Hibs were never winning that

Hopefully a watershed moment

Time to call out the weak biased officials but we all know nothing will happen

Top six here we come

McLean and his team will be relieved they done all expected of them tonight. Iffy penalty, yellow cards to Hibs players at key times to inhibit their game and a couple of sending offs thrown in.

No complaints from Rangers and into the next round. Job done.

[maturehibby]

Only Fish shook hands with McLean all the other players shunned him .
Never seen that before even the Beaton and Clancy