Hibs and Hearts

[Bakerman]

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They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

Impressive post.

We have some very seriously wealthy factions throwing their financial muscle behind us now. I think the Jambos will be praying that we don't make the top six. If we do, it could be a very interesting game against them, given the vast improvement since the window, and the fact we bossed them at Tiny. The future is very bright for us, certainly there will be some bumps in the road, but the adventure is just beginning.

[Kato]

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They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

Infrastructure too. Aberdeen are simply a non starter. Hearts have completed their ground but it has the feel of a 1950s Meccano Abattoir Kit with a rented training facility that is quickly falling out of fashion.

Plus Hearts have the least glamorous, anti-charismatic profile in world football.

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[Since90+2]

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They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

They've had a higher average attendance than us for about 19 of the last 20 years, so they clearly do. Attendances in the 70s and 80s have zero relevance in 2024. The only measurable metric is attendance at games, anything else is pure guesswork, so we have to go on the stats we have infront of us.

Not that it actually makes any difference, it's minimal, probably about 10% or so which the attendance figures back up.

[Kato]

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They've had a higher average attendance than us for about 19 of the last 20 years, so they clearly do. Attendances in the 60s and 70s have zero relevance in 2024.

Not that it actually makes any difference, it's minimal, probably about 10% or so which the attendance figures back up.

They have a more resilient core support no doubt. Many of their stated attendances are however built on lies. The amount of times they announced full houses when it was obvious it wasn't is unreal. Especially from the era when Hibs were announcing actual attendances.

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[Bakerman]

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Infrastructure too. Aberdeen are simply a non starter. Hearts have completed their ground but it has the feel of a 1950s Meccano Abattoir Kit with a rented training facility that is quickly falling out of fashion.

Plus Hearts have the least glamorous, anti-charismatic profile in world football.

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They're all Y cardigan, rover driving, sta press wearing owl worshippers. Total roasters.

[Gloucester Hibs]

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All bigliness but no realistic way of proving it, in the current world there's only one team in Edinburgh that recently won both cups and it isn't the post administration poppy thieves.

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Nailed it.

[Since90+2]

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They have a more resilient core support no doubt. Many of their stated attendances are however built on lies. The amount of times they announced full houses when it was obvious it wasn't is unreal. Especially from the era when Hibs were announcing actual attendances.

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We count attendances as we do, based on tickets sold. So we can't level that at them. The amount of tickets sold but actual bums on seats in the FF lower in particular backs than up.

[Kato]

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We count attendances as we do, based on tickets sold. So we can't level that at them. The amount of tickets sold but actual bums on seats in the FF lower in particular backs than up.

Up until a few years ago we counted actual people in the stadium. These days we count season ticket holders plus any walk ups. Hearts have never done the former. Even back in the day if they had a poor attendance their fans would come up with excuses like "we don't count the main stand" or some other fairy story.

As I said above they have a more resilient core support but I don't think they have more supporters. Their semifinal attendances for example are usually abysmal.

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[hibeerealist]

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They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

Good post DBS this is a cardigan cruncher, tea has been spat oot and bigliness expletives fill their windowless rooms

[stoneyburn hibs]

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Ltyf

Take a bow, first time in my life I've been called a Jambo.

[Phil MaGlass]

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Up until a few years ago we counted actual people in the stadium. These days we count season ticket holders plus any walk ups. Hearts have never done the latter. Even back in the day if they had a poor attendance their fans would come up with excuses like "we don't count the main stand" or some other fairy story.

As I said above the have a more resilient core support but I don't think they have more supporters. The semifinal attendances for example are usually abysmal.

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This is what I remember of their attendance lies

[VoltaireHibs]

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Was brought up in the West of the city did not know many catholics who supported Hearts, They guys who went to non dom schools tended to be Hearts or Rangers fans,a few did support Hibs but they were in the minority. However when you went to the North Edinburgh non dom schools there were a lot of Hibs fans. Went on holiday abroad and people from the West of Scotland couldn't understand how my Proddy friends were Hibs supporters. Geographically the west side of the city is the most populated part of Edinburgh. So it is a bit of everything. They have been times in the past where our average attendances have been bigger than theirs

Agree with this. The surprising thing to me is that they aren't actually bigger than they are given their geographical advantage and the fact that football is like male pattern baldness, mostly hereditary. Hibs had a far smaller catchment area of supporters initially, yet we are roughly the same size of support. I would say we've overachieved and they've underachieved. I grew up in the west of Edinburgh and the bit I grew up in there were only me and one other guy that supported Hibs in my age group. Their unbeaten derby run was a hoot... when we finally beat them we went to the local pub to give some back to them and surprise surprise they weren't there. Jambo's really can't take their medicine.

[VoltaireHibs]

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They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

And the joy of their fan ownership model is that it takes a 90% yes vote by the fans in order to do a Foley type deal. Never. Gonna. Happen.

They are stuck with that unless they have an existential threat of some sort that unites them. If Anderson decides to stop investing (please, if there is a god...) they are mid table fodder at best. I so much want this to happen just to see their fans reaction to finally being what they have always been, without the financial doping, just another run of the mill SPL club. Not sure even Aberdeen and Warnock being relegated would give me more pleasure.

Great post btw.

[LaMotta]

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They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.

Key point.

Despite this advantage they have a worse European History than Hibs, more relegations than Hibs and less trophies than Hibs in the last 50 years

[Kato]

They also have a stunted demographic. A noticeably older average age than the Hibs support. They should have made love more and had more babies.

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[VoltaireHibs]

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They also have a stunted demographic. A noticeably older average age than the Hibs support. They should have made love more and had more babies.

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But what if they didn't have a sister, how would that work?

[BILLYHIBS]

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Take a bow, first time in my life I've been called a Jambo.

😂

[IberianHibernian]

I`ve spent most of the last 40 years in France , Portugal and Spain and have never met a Hearts fan ( or any local who has heard of Hearts ) in all that time but have met several Hibbies . That doesn`t prove much as I haven`t met any Dundee or Killie fans either in that time but what is definitely true is that not many people know Hearts outside UK ( maybe a few in Latvia or other places where they have played in recent years ? ) and even outside Scotland not many people know about them . I was in a pub in Bournemouth the night that Spurs hammered Hearts in Gorgie and it was quite embarrassing ( and at the same time funny ) listening to English folk in pub talking about how bad the Scottish village team were . We`re not exactly famous now either but the Irish name and roots etc always attract interest worldwide . And historically having played in the first European Cup semi final makes us known to football history geeks .
As for present support of Hibs and Hearts in Edinburgh and area , I don`t think there`s much difference in numbers . In pre segregation days , Derbies at both grounds were with nearly 50 - 50 splits ( eg at 7 v 0 game crowd was about 36 000 and there were probably at least 15 000 Hibbies there to enjoy it ) . Hearts always had slightly more season ticketholders because their main stand was slightly bigger than ours and we had a massive terracing so never needed to worry about finding space for our most devoted fans . Since then both clubs have greatly reduced capacities in their grounds and both get bigger crowds than their play probably justifies .

[Kato]

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We`re not exactly famous now either but the Irish name and roots etc always attract interest worldwide . And historically having played in the first European Cup semi final makes us known to football history geeks .

Hibs have also have a way broader footprint in popular culture, mostly these days down the legacy of I Welsh and The Proclaimers who are widely known. Scratch the surface of those artists work and the name Hibernian isn't far away.

Sunshine On Leith, the fans renditions, have millions of hits on yt, along with comments from fans from all over the world. They have nothing like that that even compares. Like, zero.



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[Kato]

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But what if they didn't have a sister, how would that work?

Wouldn't they then go with their brother's sister?

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[VoltaireHibs]

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Wouldn't they then go with their brother's sister?

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This has all gone very meta. I have a headache.

[stoneyburn hibs]

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😂

Fud

[VoltaireHibs]

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Hibs have also have a way broader footprint in popular culture, mostly these days down the legacy of I Welsh and The Proclaimers who are widely known. Scratch the surface of those artists work and the name Hibernian isn't far away.

Sunshine On Leith, the fans renditions, have millions of hits on yt, along with comments from fans from all over the world. They have nothing like that that even compares. Like, zero.



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Fairs fair, if you're of a certain age you will know Hearts in pop culture through things like Combat 18, a Lithuanian conman and the intimidating scarf twirling displays. It's what big clubs do.

[Kato]

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intimidating scarf twirling displays..

Dinny, man. Sends a shiver.

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[gbhibby]

Don't care if they think they are a bigger club. Do you see other clubs in cities go on about their attendances to the extent Hearts fans do. Its their comfort blanket. Hearts fans remind you of the guy who is 4 inches but claims he is 7 inches.

[DIXIHIBS]

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They've had a higher average attendance than us for about 19 of the last 20 years, so they clearly do. Attendances in the 70s and 80s have zero relevance in 2024. The only measurable metric is attendance at games, anything else is pure guesswork, so we have to go on the stats we have infront of us.

Not that it actually makes any difference, it's minimal, probably about 10% or so which the attendance figures back up.

If we were to dominate the derbys like they have done for 40 years and we were generally finishing higher up the league than them then our attendances would be higher than theirs. The points folk are making is that the overall fanbase of both clubs are very similar.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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Don't care if they think they are a bigger club. Do you see other clubs in cities go on about their attendances to the extent Hearts fans do. It’s their comfort blanket. Hearts fans remind you of the guy who is 4 inches but claims he is 7 inches.

and his name…

Justin…

[ekhibee]

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List of players we sold around 2007:

Scott Brown - 4.4 Million
Kevin Thomson - 2 Million
Gary O'Connor - 1.6 Million
Steven Whittaker 2 Million
Ivan Sproule - 500k
Derek Riordan -170k
Benjelloun - Undisclosed
Chris Killen -Undisclosed

That's way over 10 Million pounds, we never seen much investment back into the team. For context Wayne Rooney around that time signed for Man United for about 20 Million.

10 Million back then is more like 50 Million now.

You mean back into the club, not the team.

Hibs didn't let Benjalloun go officially till May 2010.

Killen did the dirty on Hibs, after being regularly injured and supported by Hibs and assuring the manager he was going to sign a new contract with them he then tried to sign with Cardiff City but Celtic stepped in at the last minute and signed him on a 3 year contract.

Riordan, after all his badge kissing etc still ran his contract down so that we got virtually nothing for him when he went to Celtic.

Brown and Thomson went as a result of a crooked agent, and his pal in the Daily Record. We shouldn't have sold them IMO.

Great facilities as the training complex has, I'm still waiting to see how much benefit we've got from it, there's nothing like the successful production line of new young players coming through into the first team as so many people were predicting. and probably the best striker we've had in recent times, Griffiths, was a loan deal and Petrie wouldn't fork out 200k to buy him.

So it's all about opinions I suppose. I've got a different one from yours maybe we're both right, in a way.

[Centre Hawf]

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You mean back into the club, not the team.

Hibs didn't let Benjalloun go officially till May 2010.

Killen did the dirty on Hibs, after being regularly injured and supported by Hibs and assuring the manager he was going to sign a new contract with them he then tried to sign with Cardiff City but Celtic stepped in at the last minute and signed him on a 3 year contract.

Riordan, after all his badge kissing etc still ran his contract down so that we got virtually nothing for him when he went to Celtic.

Brown and Thomson went as a result of a crooked agent, and his pal in the Daily Record. We shouldn't have sold them IMO.

Great facilities as the training complex has, I'm still waiting to see how much benefit we've got from it, there's nothing like the successful production line of new young players coming through into the first team as so many people were predicting. and probably the best striker we've had in recent times, Griffiths, was a loan deal and Petrie wouldn't fork out 200k to buy him.

So it's all about opinions I suppose. I've got a different one from yours maybe we're both right, in a way.

I think HTC has, for the most part, became a bit of a red herring in the conversation on our successes and failures. I understand why people say they're not sure how much benefit we've gotten from it but you only really need to visit the place to see how much better a club we are for it in comparison to others that just simply don't have anywhere near it.

Of course none of that really matters to some people if we're not winning games of football and the argument can be made that we're producing soft as ***** players, but I can only imagine how much better things like our academy and health and fitness etc have all been for having a permanent place it all happens in.

At the end of the day for me the it's all about how the coaching staff utilise the tools they have to get the best out of their players and HTC is undoubtedly a huge tool in the arsenal for those who come in through the door.

[Pagan Hibernia]

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I think HTC has, for the most part, became a bit of a red herring in the conversation on our successes and failures. I understand why people say they're not sure how much benefit we've gotten from it but you only really need to visit the place to see how much better a club we are for it in comparison to others that just simply don't have anywhere near it.

Of course none of that really matters to some people if we're not winning games of football and the argument can be made that we're producing soft as ***** players, but I can only imagine how much better things like our academy and health and fitness etc have all been for having a permanent place it all happens in.

At the end of the day for me the it's all about how the coaching staff utilise the tools they have to get the best out of their players and HTC is undoubtedly a huge tool in the arsenal for those who come in through the door.

It's only going to get better too. When the plans come to fruition we will have some of the finest facilities in Scotland. That still doesn't, of course, guarantee success on the field - if it did every club would just plough money into infrastructure.