Hibs and Hearts

[Pretty Boy]

I've never really got all that wound up about the fanbase thing. They have a bigger fanbase than us, in the grand scheme of things who cares? When the going is relatively good we both pull comparable numbers, when the going gets tough comparable numbers drift away.

I've always felt Hibs have a bigger fanbase in the city itself but Hearts draw a lot more from the satellite towns, particularly in West Lothian and Midlothian.

I don't really think it's all that controversial to say they have bigger numbers than us, largely because I don't really think it matters. It's not so much bigger than it gives them an insurmountable advantage in the way that Partick Thistle will never be able to compete with Celtic for example.

I can't say I have ever really considered religion in football. My faith and my football are completely separate. I suppose as a historic legacy I was always destined to support Hibs because of my family line (Irish immigrant Catholics) but it's never been at the forefront of my mind.

[A Hi-Bee]

just have a wee look at this somewhat telling picture shown in this Herald report, pretty rich from the west coast media, but the picture says a thousand words. do the parents know they are out at night.

Reduced policing blamed for rising crowd unrest in Scottish football | The Herald (heraldscotland.com)

[Allant1981]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A lot of people think that if they are not a Catholic, they must be a Protestant. This is a peculiarly Scottish thing.

You can be neither.

So I was brought up going to church every week and was baptised in the local church of Scotland church so I know what religion I am, I just don't care for it now I'm older

[Newcastlehibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

My post if you read it carefully, was actually about others who do see embedded religion, and bigotry as a relevant issue. I was calling out for the likes of Bill Foley to pour many of his millions into us, to change embedded bigotry, and embedded village town, lanarkshire referee culture.

A level playing field, is that too much to ask for?

Level? I used to love it when we played down the slope for the second half.

[DH1875]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

just have a wee look at this somewhat telling picture shown in this Herald report, pretty rich from the west coast media, but the picture says a thousand words. do the parents know they are out at night.

Reduced policing blamed for rising crowd unrest in Scottish football | The Herald (heraldscotland.com)

A picture never shows the whole story.

[sh00byd00]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I've never really got all that wound up about the fanbase thing. They have a bigger fanbase than us, in the grand scheme of things who cares? When the going is relatively good we both pull comparable numbers, when the going gets tough comparable numbers drift away.

I've always felt Hibs have a bigger fanbase in the city itself but Hearts draw a lot more from the satellite towns, particularly in West Lothian and Midlothian.

I don't really think it's all that controversial to say they have bigger numbers than us, largely because I don't really think it matters. It's not so much bigger than it gives them an insurmountable advantage in the way that Partick Thistle will never be able to compete with Celtic for example.

I can't say I have ever really considered religion in football. My faith and my football are completely separate. I suppose as a historic legacy I was always destined to support Hibs because of my family line (Irish immigrant Catholics) but it's never been at the forefront of my mind.

I think the bigger problem is, the amount of born and bred Edinburgh folk who fill Rangers and Celtic buses. You see a lot of OF fans filling buses in Musselburgh, Porty etc. I'd rather see someone support Hearts than either OF club, yet it's happened for decades. I'm sure heart fans probably feel the same way.

[Carheenlea]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This is true. Their supporters seem to buy into their self proclaimed bigliness in everything and shout it from the rooftops.

”Biggest glass curtain in Scottish football “ and “Only football club owned hotel situated within the stadium” to quote two of their statements. Who the hell cares.

If you have to relentlessly remind people of how big a club you are, you are by definition, not as big a club as you think.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think the bigger problem is, the amount of born and bred Edinburgh folk who fill Rangers and Celtic buses. You see a lot of OF fans filling buses in Musselburgh, Porty etc. I'd rather see someone support Hearts than either OF club, yet it's happened for decades. I'm sure heart fans probably feel the same way.

It really is frustrating if you happen to be in an Edinburgh boozer when one or both of the cheeks are playing, the folk doing all the cheering would probably struggle to find their way to either clubs stadiums.

[oneone73]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I think the bigger problem is, the amount of born and bred Edinburgh folk who fill Rangers and Celtic buses. You see a lot of OF fans filling buses in Musselburgh, Porty etc. I'd rather see someone support Hearts than either OF club, yet it's happened for decades. I'm sure heart fans probably feel the same way.

I've lived in Musselburgh since 2006. Not seen one yet.

[sh00byd00]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I've lived in Musselburgh since 2006. Not seen one yet.

You see them loading buses outside the Ravvy.

[Since90+2]

The idea that Edinburgh is overrun with old firm supporters doesn't hold weight IMO. A quick Google search shows there's maybe 10 at the most supporters buses who leave, if you have 35 on each that's only 350 fans, not thousands.

Also, go into any local Edinburgh boozer and you can almost certainly guarantee 90% will support Hibs or Hearts. Similarly at school, there was a handful of old firm fans with everyone else being Hibs or Hearts.

Overall, Edinburgh is massively populated by Hibs and Hearts fans. It's just not enough attend games. It just really isn't a footballing city for the size of the Urban area.

[Hibee Daft]

I would disagree that hearts have a bigger fan base, If anything I notice more hibs fans than hearts... but the hearts fans you speak to are more likely to go to games.


I think part of this is not investing enough in our team in the mid 2000s. Rod Petrie was a bit of a penny pincher.

Then when we started to get abit of momentum on the back of the scottish cup win covid hit.

There is a massive amount of hibs fans that have half checked out because of a lack of ambition from the club... but as we all know that is changing

[MWHIBBIES]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I would disagree that hearts have a bigger fan base, If anything I notice more hibs fans than hearts... but the hearts fans you speak to are more likely to go to games.


I think part of this is not investing enough in our team in the mid 2000s. Rod Petrie was a bit of a penny pincher.

Then when we started to get abit of momentum on the back of the scottish cup win covid hit.

There is a massive amount of hibs fans that have half checked out because of a lack of ambition from the club... but as we all know that is changing

Rod Petrie was brilliant for Hibs. Done his job very well. Completed the stadium, training ground, won 2 trophies.

[Pagan Hibernia]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They've won the league the same number of times as us and been relegated more often than us. I think the only trophy they've won more often is the Scottish Cup - a tournament we really should have won more than three times when you look at the crazy number of finals we've lost.

There's little between the clubs in terms of size.

They've won more league cups than us. Which is remarkable when you consider JFK was alive and well when they last got their hands on it.

[Bridge hibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You see them loading buses outside the Ravvy.

Im sure there used to be a the rangers bus leave from the Ship inn too

[sh00byd00]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The idea that Edinburgh is overrun with old firm supporters doesn't hold weight IMO. A quick Google search shows there's maybe 10 at the most supporters buses who leave, if you have 35 on each that's only 350 fans, not thousands.

Also, go into any local Edinburgh boozer and you can almost certainly guarantee 90% will support Hibs or Hearts. Similarly at school, there was a handful of old firm fans with everyone else being Hibs or Hearts.

Overall, Edinburgh is massively populated by Hibs and Hearts fans. It's just not enough attend games. It just really isn't a footballing city for the size of the Urban area.

I agree about the actual "city of Edinburgh" part, but in the out lying areas, there are a ton of OF fans. Take Dalkeith, there are a lot of Celtic fans, probably because there is/was a large catholic school. Used to see folk piling on with Celtic and Hibs tops back yonder. Though, i'm not sure if that School is still there, hence the "was". Places like Mayfield, Nitten, Gorebridge etc also have a rather largish share of OF fans. When i was at school, a lot of people supported Dundee Utd because they were the team to beat, then Aberdeen came along. Most of those same folk now follow Celtic/Rangers. I know plenty of Rangers supporters. Not so much Celtic, but that purely because back when i was at school Catholics and non Catholics kinda had their own schools. The younger demographic may have changed (no idea if schools are so heavily segregated in the east), but most of the folk i went to school with in Midlothian were either Rangers or Hearts fans. Then there was us Hibs fans. We were kinda in 3rd place.

I get all of the above is purely anecdotal, but i grew up just outside of Edinburgh (Midlothian), and there were plenty of Rangers fans around. Not a majority, but a fair few. Those on the flip side of the coin probably knew a lot more Hibs and Celtic fans.

Livingston is probably more heavily populated with OF fans because it's more in the West.

[Since90+2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I agree about the actual "city of Edinburgh" part, but in the out lying areas, there are a ton of OF fans. Take Dalkeith, there are a lot of Celtic fans, probably because there is/was a large catholic school. Used to see folk piling on with Celtic and Hibs tops back yonder. Though, i'm not sure if that School is still there, hence the "was". Places like Mayfield, Nitten, Gorebridge etc also have a rather largish share of OF fans. When i was at school, a lot of people supported Dundee Utd because they were the team to beat, then Aberdeen came along. Most of those same folk now follow Celtic/Rangers. I know plenty of Rangers supporters. Not so much Celtic, but that purely because back when i was at school Catholics and non Catholics kinda had their own schools. The younger demographic may have changed (no idea if schools are so heavily segregated in the east), but most of the folk i went to school with in Midlothian were either Rangers or Hearts fans. Then there was us Hibs fans. We were kinda in 3rd place.

I get all of the above is purely anecdotal, but i grew up just outside of Edinburgh (Midlothian), and there were plenty of Rangers fans around. Not a majority, but a fair few. Those on the flip side of the coin probably knew a lot more Celtic fans.

I think you are probably right about the outlying towns, they do tend to have big OF support. The City of Edinburgh though there really isn't that many Celtic and Sevco fans around, certainly a tiny minority compared to Hibs and Hearts.

[surreyhibbie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don’t think religion has any part to play in which Edinburgh team you support these days. There might be a ,minority on both sides who would like to see us copying the big two in Glasgow but the majority of us really don’t care.

[ekhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Don't be fooled that their support is hugely bigger than ours. Yes at the moment they are selling more than us but that's more to do with relative fortunes at the moment. The year after we won the cup we sold more STs than them and back in 70s we regularly had bigger crowds for example. If they had the same derby record as us over the last 40 years do you think their crowds would be the same. Not a chance. A good Hibs team for a few seasons coupled with a poor Hertz team and nobody would be talking about how 'big' they are.

This.

[ekhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Rod Petrie was brilliant for Hibs. Done his job very well. Completed the stadium, training ground, won 2 trophies.

Brilliant's not the word I would use for Petrie, although he did a decent job of controlling finances at times when Hibs needed it.

[Hibee Daft]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Rod Petrie was brilliant for Hibs. Done his job very well. Completed the stadium, training ground, won 2 trophies.

List of players we sold around 2007:

Scott Brown - 4.4 Million
Kevin Thomson - 2 Million
Gary O'Connor - 1.6 Million
Steven Whittaker 2 Million
Ivan Sproule - 500k
Derek Riordan -170k
Benjelloun - Undisclosed
Chris Killen -Undisclosed

That's way over 10 Million pounds, we never seen much investment back into the team. For context Wayne Rooney around that time signed for Man United for about 20 Million.

10 Million back then is more like 50 Million now.

[Kato]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

List of players we sold around 2007:

Scott Brown - 4.4 Million
Kevin Thomson - 2 Million
Gary O'Connor - 1.6 Million
Steven Whittaker 2 Million
Ivan Sproule - 500k
Derek Riordan -170k
Benjelloun - Undisclosed
Chris Killen -Undisclosed

That's way over 10 Million pounds, we never seen much investment back into the team. For context Wayne Rooney around that time signed for Man United for about 20 Million.

10 Million back then is more like 50 Million now.

We were £19M in debt without a sugar daddy or money launderer to divvy up.



Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Greencore]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

They wanted us shut down back in the early days, absolute weirdos then and now 🖕

Did they? I thought they gave us our first game.

[MWHIBBIES]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

List of players we sold around 2007:

Scott Brown - 4.4 Million
Kevin Thomson - 2 Million
Gary O'Connor - 1.6 Million
Steven Whittaker 2 Million
Ivan Sproule - 500k
Derek Riordan -170k
Benjelloun - Undisclosed
Chris Killen -Undisclosed

That's way over 10 Million pounds, we never seen much investment back into the team. For context Wayne Rooney around that time signed for Man United for about 20 Million.

10 Million back then is more like 50 Million now.

Yes, it was used to keep the club alive and build a training ground. Bit more important than signing slightly better players than we did.

We certainly didn't sell Benji in 2007 either. Id look that one up again.

[hibeerealist]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Don't be fooled that their support is hugely bigger than ours. Yes at the moment they are selling more than us but that's more to do with relative fortunes at the moment. The year after we won the cup we sold more STs than them and back in 70s we regularly had bigger crowds for example. If they had the same derby record as us over the last 40 years do you think their crowds would be the same. Not a chance. A good Hibs team for a few seasons coupled with a poor Hertz team and nobody would be talking about how 'big' they are.

Spot on! IF we showed the same determination to win the derbies (their biggest games) at all costs like they do and go on a run of victories then the cardigans will shrink considerably in numbers

[chrisski33]

****** hearts, ****** their ****ty stadium and hotel etc OPs post smells of a Hearts fan at it!

[hibeerealist]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I believe around £2m of the cash injection will go towards the playing squad with a condition of the approval of Black Knight’s share purchase that the majority of the £6m went towards infrastructure (Famous Five, East Mains as examples).

What’s your expectation with this one off - and most welcome - contribution when compared to what HoMFC receive into their begging bowl…..every year.

“There was also a £4.5m donation from benefactor James Anderson included in the latest set of figures for the year to 30 June, 2023. Anderson's contribution, plus just over £1.6m from fans via Foundation of Hearts monthly pledges”

Don’t get me wrong, they’re not exactly blowing the competition away with the massive gulf in turnover BUT I’m reading a lot of pipe dream stuff around our budget. Spent wisely however…..

The BK's are well aware of this and BF stated quite clearly that giving HFC an advantage over our competitors targeting regular 3rd place and Europe will not be too expensive for them. Why do you think the cardigans are so anti this deal ?

[BSEJVT]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Fascinating subject, the world's oldest Derby match.

There are layers and layers of history and complexity.

Someone should write a book about it...!

https://www.pitchpublishing.co.uk/shop/auld-foes

By some distance my least favourite of your books to date

[Johnny_Leith]

It's easier to support Hearts in Edinburgh. Only the weak-willed gravitate to them.

[Dashing Bob S]

They don't have a bigger support than us. Nor to be fair, do we have more than them. The support of both sides fluctuates according to their fortunes. Even the terrible trio Hearts side of the 60's never enjoyed the same level of crowds the Famous Five team of a few years earlier played in front of.

We had much bigger crowds than they did in the 70's, and they accrued more support in the 80's onwards.

Like it or not, many if not most, football fans nowadays are glory hunters. There's no other reason, for example, (whatever bigoted affectations they profess) for most people outside of Glasgow to support Rangers or Celtic. Spending money tends to equal success and success tend to equal support. Hibs support levels are actually very impressive given our lack of success in recent seasons, while Hearts, I think, must be disappointed that the their higher spend from Mercer onwards has only yielded only marginally higher numbers.

I think this is why the Black Knights involvement induces so much fear in them. Anybody with any sense knows that the BK's won't have just been researching the financial/ownership/fan potential of Hibs, but also that of Hearts and Aberdeen, our principal rivals for regular European slots. They'll know how much of Heart's relative success (and slightly higher crowds) have been based on decades of higher spend, and will see a softness in the fan/Budge owned model, supplemented by the Anderson largesse.

The one thing Hearts fans have always feared with us is a level playing field financially. Apart from perhaps the Sauzee era, they've always had that. Now that's over.

As I said, I think they may regret not making more of their advantage.