Are We Unrealistic In Our Expectations?

[JimBHibees]

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I remember the GTF chants in his last game and the sacking happening shortly after, as in very shortly.

Panic set in and some might say it’s not lifted since.

Was at Livi the chanting was basically 20 teenagers though it is fair to say the rest of the support didn’t exactly argue against the chants. Was a very poor decision to be honest. It is fair to say he went through a poor run and some of the performances near the end were very poor with little or no tempo.

[Since452]

Just over 2 years since Ross was sacked? Seems like about 10!

[rodhibs55]

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The romanticised "Hibs way" is an ethereal crock of ***** in reality.

Get a team that wins more often than it loses first of all, sustain it by any means necessary and then you can start concerning yourself about the "style" element.

Hibs are a roller coaster and always have been fir me and I'm 69. Too young to remember the famous 5 but Been through Turnballs tornadoes, Tony Moybery's young team, Stubb's brilliant team, we were great at times with Lenny, I'm sure there will be good times again.
No one can forget 2016. Keep the faith and keep supporting.
GGTTH

[worcesterhibby]

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That bit is definitely unrealistic so the answer to your question is yes. 😀

He would need time, as would any manager. He had Kilmarnock very close to relegation last season with 6 games to and only avoided the playoff spot on the last day. Kilmarnock stuck by him and are now seeing the benefits. We don't give managers much time.

Below was after he'd been in the job 15 or 16 months and had had 3 transfer windows.

Great post...so easy to forget this stuff. You are dead right, we would never accept that position after over a year in post, yet they are reaping the rewards now.

[Sparrows tongue]

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Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

Your theory is a good one, Bob.

However, I for one would take a wee run of 1-0 wins for the remainder of this season. Yes, it's fantastic to play football with freedom and style, although I feel this belief is now a bit dated.

It's a result led business and we need these results - starting with Dundee!

As an aside, I think that McInnes is just what we need right now.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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Great post...so easy to forget this stuff. You are dead right, we would never accept that position after over a year in post, yet they are reaping the rewards now.

We’re Hibs. We’re not Kilmarnock. Arguing that we wouldn’t accept what they would accept is daft, just as it would be daft for us to point to the fact that Celtic fans are struggling to accept they might finish 2nd despite the fact we would more than accept that.

[easty]

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Hibs could appoint pep or klopp and if they had a bad 6 months this place would want them out

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If they were doing *****? That'd be fair.

If we had Messi and he was playing crap, I'd want him dropped tae.

[Torto7]

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Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

Hibs do shoot themselves in the foot sometimes trying to play expansive football. The spacing in Monty's 4-4-2 for example would challenge even top players. It's a tricky question, go for the solid choice(McInnes) and play sensible football I wouldn't call him duller than say Jack Ross or strive to find something more unique. Like you say there is a wee voice in my head that says aim for the second option. Maybe that's just us as a fanbase?

[Diclonius]

Speak for yourselves, I would take eye-bleeding football if we finished 3rd most seasons, got to Hampden regularly and beat Hearts more often than not.

This "Hibs class" thing is a load of bollocks.

[Sparrows tongue]

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Your theory is a good one, Bob.

However, I for one would take a wee run of 1-0 wins for the remainder of this season. Yes, it's fantastic to play football with freedom and style, although I feel this belief is now a bit dated.

It's a result led business and we need these results - starting with Dundee!

As an aside, I think that McInnes is just what we need right now.

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Speak for yourselves, I would take eye-bleeding football if we finished 3rd most seasons, got to Hampden regularly and beat Hearts more often than not.

This "Hibs class" thing is a load of bollocks.

That is a much more direct way of saying what I attempted to voice.

[southern hibby]

I think the problem we have are certain fans are happy clappers at all different aspects of hibs.

For example.
Some want entertainment.
Some want attacking football.
Some want wins at any cost.
Some want us just to turn up every once in a while.
Some want to just turn up and moan at anything going wrong especially at one another. Moaning someone’s a happy clapper or happy to except mediocre performances.
We have fans laughing at Rangers flow of statements yet we have fans desperate to stand up to the SFA reference VAR, but how many have actually phoned or emailed Hibs to say how they feel.
But what we don’t seem to have is a collective agreement on anything ( except possibly Hibs class ).

If we take our neighbours across the city they ( subconsciously ) are defined by us. Their whole mindset to every last one of them is to beat Hibs at all costs and anything else is a bonus. I’d even go as far to say that some off them are probably happy when winning a cup because it means Hibs haven’t won it more so than they have.

I believe and I may be wrong but until we collectively can get together and start telling Hibs what we need to prioritise we’ll just cruise along because we aren’t rocking the boat.

One thing I do know we deserve better than we’ve been getting this season as it’s been absolutely horse manure.

GGTTH

[hibeerealist]

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If the board had backed him that summer we would be in a far better position right now.

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Really? Jack went to Dundee Utd and we saw what happened there.

Now in a comfy job with a lot less stress than football management, I think JR has found his ideal!!

Good luck to him but Hibs are well rid.

[Hibiza]

Jack Ross ,towards the end was dire .deserved to go .

[007]

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We’re Hibs. We’re not Kilmarnock. Arguing that we wouldn’t accept what they would accept is daft, just as it would be daft for us to point to the fact that Celtic fans are struggling to accept they might finish 2nd despite the fact we would more than accept that.

I agree. I would say Kilmarnock battling to avoid relegation is the equivalent to us battling to make the top 6. McInnes was given the chance to avoid relegation so if we are comparing with how well McInnes is doing at Kilmarnock then Montgomery should be given the chance to make the top 6.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Jack Ross ,towards the end was dire .deserved to go .

This

[ancient hibee]

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Speak for yourselves, I would take eye-bleeding football if we finished 3rd most seasons, got to Hampden regularly and beat Hearts more often than not.

This "Hibs class" thing is a load of bollocks.

Quite right. For example we lose games not because we get caught out playing expansive attacking football but because we have defenders who don't know how to put the ball into Row ZZ.

[DIXIHIBS]

Other than hibs.net I very rarely hear anyone talking about 'hibs way' etc....its a complete myth imho. Of course we want Hibs to play exciting attacking football....fans of every club want that, but winning is what matters...end of. Does anyone believe if we were 3rd in league and regularly beating hertz that the style of football really matters? Hibs managers have been sacked in the past because they lose games, not because of the football on show.

[Sparrows tongue]

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Quite right. For example we lose games not because we get caught out playing expansive attacking football but because we have defenders who don't know how to put the ball into Row ZZ.

That's quite funny, but it's actually true!

[Itsnoteasy]

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Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

Who cares what Hertz fans want. Its in their dna to pump us/Hibs & that happens more often than not. Let's just worry about Hibs.

[Bakerman]

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Jack Ross ,towards the end was dire .deserved to go .

I agree. We were playing like Bertie Auld's team by the end of Jack Ross's tenure. It had become dull, and boring, unfortunately, as he had us playing very well a lot of the time at the peak of his tenure.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Read a comments section on an egg-chasing article that made me think…

the comment was on the lines of:

“we should start from the position of what happens in the perfect game.”

Perhaps this is the modern curse of over analysis. No one can make mistakes, defenders must to better, forwards must have an end product/score/track back. It’s all without context of the game plan and how the opponents setup.

if we expect perfection we are being unrealistic

[Donegal Hibby]

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So many folk talking like NM has been sacked.

Patience people 😁

Plenty time to turn this good ship around. Starting with a win on Sat!

Clap clap!

[RMQ1967]

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Other than hibs.net I very rarely hear anyone talking about 'hibs way' etc....its a complete myth imho. Of course we want Hibs to play exciting attacking football....fans of every club want that, but winning is what matters...end of. Does anyone believe if we were 3rd in league and regularly beating hertz that the style of football really matters? Hibs managers have been sacked in the past because they lose games, not because of the football on show.

Agree with some of this but the style of football does matter to an extent.

What I would say, is that aside from our declining expectations for this season, we'll shortly find out if the new shareholders are content with the erratic performances and struggles to scrape into the top 6.

Having recently brought in the quality of players we could only dream of at the beginning of the season I think their expectations will be far higher than what we're currently enduring.

[joe breezy]

Winning is alll that matters but winning in Europe too

My expectations are top 3 every season and staying in Europe till each winter

So not high at all

[IberianHibernian]

Given present league position , results are probably more important than performances in the next few weeks and if we scrape a win in the cup QF despite playing defensively most of us will still be happy . Next season if we play boring football but still finish 3rd , many fans will be happy but just for one year . Several years of boring , negative play even with regular European qualification would soon see crowds drop .

[joe breezy]

Name a boring successful team

[Musselbound]

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Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

Third place is never guaranteed (seems to be a soundbite Foley came up with) and there's no inevitability McInnes would get it right at Hibs.

But yes playing a great style of football and achieving success is a hard expectation to live up to at a club like Hibs.

[VoltaireHibs]

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I think there is an element of our support that didn’t enjoy the JR tenure football.

I enjoyed the results but found it incredibly hard to watch. We were a lot less vulnerable than we are now, but we remained vulnerable and if we had scored only one goal, I was often really concerned that we would not win the game.

Maybe that doesn’t show in the results mind you, but it was my interpretation.

When we beat Aberdeen 3-0 in the game before Covid struck later that season, JR commented it was ‘quite Hibsy’ the way we won the game. So I suppose even he recognised that there is a style and way of winning game associated with Hibs.

Another factor was that the atmosphere in the ground was pretty much deid.

There could be a few factors in that:
It being the first season after Covid so people staying away.
The restrictions in place because of Covid at the start of the season.
The run we were on by the time a full ground was allowed.

So perhaps there is a genuine desire to be entertained amongst hibbys, I suppose my JR point has so many possibilities as to why it was like that when we got back in the ground, that could be stacked against a point of it being the football that kept people away and made the atmos crap.

I think back to Lennon’s tenure, in particular the 5-5 when we sold half the away stand and every seat was taken in the house, even after being beat by Hearts days before, and think of the atmospheres we experienced then.

They were quality.

I don’t know why that was, I just know that it was. It could have been the shouty manager (doubt it). It could have been the football. It could have been the jeopardy. It could have been that we were winning most weeks.

Who knows?

Because whatever you think of the merits of Lennon the manager, there is no doubt he's box-office. He puts buns on seats one way or another.

[VoltaireHibs]

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Name a boring successful team

George Graham's Arsenal. 😁 Showing my age.

Mind you, they were the best defensive unit I've seen in my lifetime. Wenger won a watch when he inherited that disciplined unit. When it came time to replace them he couldn't, always felt that was his, Wengers, problem at Arsenal.

[VoltaireHibs]

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Great post...so easy to forget this stuff. You are dead right, we would never accept that position after over a year in post, yet they are reaping the rewards now.

I think you also have to factor in relevant budgets/expectations. No danger would McInnes have us 3rd bottom with our budget.