Are We Unrealistic In Our Expectations?

[Dashing Bob S]

Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

[Northernhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

100%. Jack Ross had us third in the league with good signings and football that I enjoyed but because he didn’t rant and rave in interviews like Lennon did a lot of people decided he was boring and we got rid after failing to back him in his first bad run of form.


I’m sure we’ll soon see the “but but but he lost a game against St Johnstone” but he never failed to get us to Hampden. The more time you’re there, the more likely you’ll win a trophy.

If we get McInnes or Robinson in, absolutely guarantee the above happens again.


The powers that be decided to get rid of him and have since failed to replace him adequately. The mess we are in is entirely on them.

[jakedance]

Do we really demand so called entertaining football at the expense of winning? I can’t remember too many games I’ve enjoyed where we’ve lost. Give me a Hibs team that consistently punch their weight with a backbone of hard as nails winners. Instal a winning mentality and build the entertainment from there.

[Paul1642]

We might be fans first and foremost but when you break it down we are paying customers in the entertainment business, therefore rightfully expect to be entertained.

Obviously getting good result is a huge part of our expectations but paying £25 to watch a boring game of football and scrape a 1-0 win is not what I want on a consistent basis. Times like now I’ll settle for that because we need the points on the board but I never want that to end become our philosophy.

There’s a reason so many Hibs fans have very fond memories of the Mowbray and Lennon tenures and it’s the football that’s responsible for this, not the results.

[Steven79]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

100%. Jack Ross had us third in the league with good signings and football that I enjoyed but because he didn’t rant and rave in interviews like Lennon did a lot of people decided he was boring and we got rid after failing to back him in his first bad run of form.


I’m sure we’ll soon see the “but but but he lost a game against St Johnstone” but he never failed to get us to Hampden. The more time you’re there, the more likely you’ll win a trophy.

If we get McInnes or Robinson in, absolutely guarantee the above happens again.


The powers that be decided to get rid of him and have since failed to replace him adequately. The mess we are in is entirely on them.

If the board had backed him that summer we would be in a far better position right now.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If the board had backed him that summer we would be in a far better position right now.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

Yep. Even if we followed the same transfer strategy we’d have a much better squad and saved a hell of a lot of money.

It’s ****ing shameful how badly we’ve declined in such a short space of time.

[Pagan Hibernia]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

100%. Jack Ross had us third in the league with good signings and football that I enjoyed but because he didn’t rant and rave in interviews like Lennon did a lot of people decided he was boring and we got rid after failing to back him in his first bad run of form.


I’m sure we’ll soon see the “but but but he lost a game against St Johnstone” but he never failed to get us to Hampden. The more time you’re there, the more likely you’ll win a trophy.

If we get McInnes or Robinson in, absolutely guarantee the above happens again.


The powers that be decided to get rid of him and have since failed to replace him adequately. The mess we are in is entirely on them.

A lot of people never quite forgave him for that wretched Cup Final performance. Harsh probably.

[Steven79]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A lot of people never quite forgave him for that wretched Cup Final performance. Harsh probably.

And as usual the players managed to avoid any blame.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A lot of people never quite forgave him for that wretched Cup Final performance. Harsh probably.

A lot of teams looked wretched against that St Johnstone squad, Rangers included. Not just harsh, arrogant to think we had a god given right to skelp them.

[lyonhibs]

The romanticised "Hibs way" is an ethereal crock of ***** in reality.

Get a team that wins more often than it loses first of all, sustain it by any means necessary and then you can start concerning yourself about the "style" element.

[easty]

We've not had an entertaining style of football for ages, and over my lifetime it's been rare.

Get a winning team, then look to adapt that team to play a better level of football. It has to be in that order for me.

[Alex Trager]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

100%. Jack Ross had us third in the league with good signings and football that I enjoyed but because he didn’t rant and rave in interviews like Lennon did a lot of people decided he was boring and we got rid after failing to back him in his first bad run of form.


I’m sure we’ll soon see the “but but but he lost a game against St Johnstone” but he never failed to get us to Hampden. The more time you’re there, the more likely you’ll win a trophy.

If we get McInnes or Robinson in, absolutely guarantee the above happens again.


The powers that be decided to get rid of him and have since failed to replace him adequately. The mess we are in is entirely on them.

I think there is an element of our support that didn’t enjoy the JR tenure football.

I enjoyed the results but found it incredibly hard to watch. We were a lot less vulnerable than we are now, but we remained vulnerable and if we had scored only one goal, I was often really concerned that we would not win the game.

Maybe that doesn’t show in the results mind you, but it was my interpretation.

When we beat Aberdeen 3-0 in the game before Covid struck later that season, JR commented it was ‘quite Hibsy’ the way we won the game. So I suppose even he recognised that there is a style and way of winning game associated with Hibs.

Another factor was that the atmosphere in the ground was pretty much deid.

There could be a few factors in that:
It being the first season after Covid so people staying away.
The restrictions in place because of Covid at the start of the season.
The run we were on by the time a full ground was allowed.

So perhaps there is a genuine desire to be entertained amongst hibbys, I suppose my JR point has so many possibilities as to why it was like that when we got back in the ground, that could be stacked against a point of it being the football that kept people away and made the atmos crap.

I think back to Lennon’s tenure, in particular the 5-5 when we sold half the away stand and every seat was taken in the house, even after being beat by Hearts days before, and think of the atmospheres we experienced then.

They were quality.

I don’t know why that was, I just know that it was. It could have been the shouty manager (doubt it). It could have been the football. It could have been the jeopardy. It could have been that we were winning most weeks.

Who knows?

[Centre Hawf]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If the board had backed him that summer we would be in a far better position right now.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

I was probably quite guilty of the mindset that "if he left tomorrow I wouldn't be upset" with Jack Ross, mostly due to the style of football we played. But regardless of what my opinions were of him after the cup final and two semi final losses in 2020/21, the one guaranteed part of his tenure was that he was failed by the club in that summer window to build on what he had done and at the very least maintain it.

We were a ball hair from having probably our best ever season since the Tornadoes/Famous Five era and the club actively went backwards in that transfer window. Whatever reason that was for is something only those in charge at that point can ever say but I think that windows failings has put us to where we are now to this day. If we backed Jack Ross with even a handful of players he asked for/needed I don't think we're sitting here having debates on sacking a 4th manager in 2.5 years.

[Smartie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A lot of people never quite forgave him for that wretched Cup Final performance. Harsh probably.

I thought he was probably affected by the fact that his third placed finish came in empty grounds.

There were plenty of good performances and wins away from home in particular that would have really endeared him to the hardcore who go home and away. It was easy to be a bit "meh" about narrow wins at grounds like Fir Park from the comfort of our sofas when in fact they were excellent results and performances where more lauded teams of ours haven't always fared as well.

Those results didn't put the credit in the bank for him that they really should have.

I actually think it's a bit of a myth that we demand good football. If we're winning, we're happy, more so if we're playing well but it's the winning that counts. I think the vast majority of our fanbase are pragmatic enough to understand that, allowing for the fact that we have a lunatic fringe on any number of subjects. When a team who don't play good stuff start losing though, it leaves the more dour managers with nowhere to go.

[worcesterhibby]

people have short memories, if they don't remember the vast number of posts decrying our "eye-bleeding" football, under Jack Ross, with a very vocal group on here constantly saying that we only came third because "every other team is sh&t". (that's not to say that the loudest on here and on Facebook and Twitter are the majority, but they definitely influence people thinking)

To be fair, I'm a 700mile round trip from Easter Road, so I never get to sit their and watch matches week in week out. I don't blame people for wanting to watch exciting attacking football, but I just think it's important to remember, what happened under Jack Ross, when we won ugly.

Would McInnes have had us more organised, tighter in defence and in the top half of the table? - Almost certainly
Would Hibs fans have accepted his grind it our style of football for long ? - that's a different question

Personally I think the Black Knights group will have a strong say in suggesting how we go forward manager wise. Certainly they will have input, when we next search for one. For me that has to be a good thing. I actually think Ben Kensall is very good at a lot of the stuff he does and for Ron's sake I'm more than happy to back the Ian and the rest of the Gordon family...BUT they certainly could do with some help when it comes to picking managers ! The last three appointments have not been good. Let's applaud the commercial work that Ben and Ian have been involved with and hope that Bill Foley's team can find us a better gaffer next time we are looking.

[allezsauzee]

I couldn't watch a team that played the way Hearts normally play regardless of the level of success. I'd enjoy the fact that Hibs were winning but I wouldn't there to watch it. I don't expect the team to be wildly successful. I just want to watch decent football, give the old firm the odd beating, beat Hearts more than they beat us and finish top 6 with the occasional cup win. I don't think that is too much to ask.

[Greenio]

So many folk talking like NM has been sacked.

Patience people 😁

Plenty time to turn this good ship around. Starting with a win on Sat!

Clap clap!

[Pagan Hibernia]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

A lot of teams looked wretched against that St Johnstone squad, Rangers included. Not just harsh, arrogant to think we had a god given right to skelp them.

I didn't expect to skelp them, our recent results against them before that had been awful. I did expect better than what we served up that day though. It was atrocious. Ironically we played far better against St J in the LC semi when we got beat 3-0.

I do agree though that he shouldn't have been judged on those results. 3rd place should have got him plenty of credit in the bank, although as others have said the fact we were locked out of ER, through no fault of JRs, did him no favours. Football by definition that season was sterile and a hard watch and it had nothing to do with Jack Ross

[JeMeSouviens]

When McInnes had Jonny Hayes and Niall McGinn, were Aberdeen really boring? I think if you give him good players he'll play good football. Give him crap players he's pragmatic enough to play to their limitations and try to get a result. ****ing with the **** you've got seems like a good idea to me?

[allezsauzee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

When McInnes had Jonny Hayes and Niall McGinn, were Aberdeen really boring? I think if you give him good players he'll play good football. Give him crap players he's pragmatic enough to play to their limitations and try to get a result. ****ing with the **** you've got seems like a good idea to me?

I actually think at that time, McInnes had a good balance of style and steel. I'm think there is an assumption that he'd play boring football simply because he organises a team first and foremost before trying anything more ambitious.

[May21/05/16]

Hibs could appoint pep or klopp and if they had a bad 6 months this place would want them out

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

[Stubbsy90+2]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

When McInnes had Jonny Hayes and Niall McGinn, were Aberdeen really boring? I think if you give him good players he'll play good football. Give him crap players he's pragmatic enough to play to their limitations and try to get a result. ****ing with the **** you've got seems like a good idea to me?

They weren’t.

I can’t be bothered going back and finding it, but there was a season when Aberdeen scored something like 70 odd goals under him, finished 2nd and won numerous games scoring 4, 5, 6 goals etc.

[Since452]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

100%. Jack Ross had us third in the league with good signings and football that I enjoyed but because he didn’t rant and rave in interviews like Lennon did a lot of people decided he was boring and we got rid after failing to back him in his first bad run of form.


I’m sure we’ll soon see the “but but but he lost a game against St Johnstone” but he never failed to get us to Hampden. The more time you’re there, the more likely you’ll win a trophy.

If we get McInnes or Robinson in, absolutely guarantee the above happens again.


The powers that be decided to get rid of him and have since failed to replace him adequately. The mess we are in is entirely on them.

Jack Ross gave me one of my best nights watching Hibs in recent years. 3-1 against the Huns at Hampden. Fantastic. The players and fans felt really together that night. We seem a million miles from that now.

[blackpoolhibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I couldn't watch a team that played the way Hearts normally play regardless of the level of success. I'd enjoy the fact that Hibs were winning but I wouldn't there to watch it. I don't expect the team to be wildly successful. I just want to watch decent football, give the old firm the odd beating, beat Hearts more than they beat us and finish top 6 with the occasional cup win. I don't think that is too much to ask.

So you wouldnt mind Livi and St Mirren beating us, along with the likes of St Johnstone and Kilmarnock as long as the highlighted scenario was achieved?

We hardly win any games now, and look at this board and the moaning that's going on, but you would be happy if we finished top 6.

[Northernhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Jack Ross gave me one of my best nights watching Hibs in recent years. 3-1 against the Huns at Hampden. Fantastic. The players and fans felt really together that night. We seem a million miles from that now.

Some people use his time at Dundee United to dismiss him as a bad manager but it’s proof that a good manager at a basket case badly run club can appear out of their depth.

Lessons to be learned there.

[WhileTheChief..]

The fans had nothing to do with Jack Ross getting sacked and the chat about us demanding silky football is made up pish.

It was the club that screwed up, not us.

[Northernhibee]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

The fans had nothing to do with Jack Ross getting sacked and the chat about us demanding silky football is made up pish.

It was the club that screwed up, not us.

I remember the GTF chants in his last game and the sacking happening shortly after, as in very shortly.

Panic set in and some might say it’s not lifted since.

[007]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Every fan base wants a winning side. We are no exception. BUT we also demand an entertaining expansive attacking style of football. It’s wired into our DNA. Whereas Hearts fans will literally put up with any crap for a 1-0 win.

On paper McInnes is an obvious choice. With our resources and potential he’d inevitably get it right and 3rd place would be guaranteed, 4th on transitional seasons and if one of the OF had a financial corruption or footballing crisis, possibly 2nd.

But even as I type this, some Hibernian part of my soul moans ‘McInnes…meh…’

In today’s finance driven (and duller) world of football, does our idealism over our pragmatism make us an impossible club for any manager to succeed at?

That bit is definitely unrealistic so the answer to your question is yes. 😀

He would need time, as would any manager. He had Kilmarnock very close to relegation last season with 6 games to and only avoided the playoff spot on the last day. Kilmarnock stuck by him and are now seeing the benefits. We don't give managers much time.

Below was after he'd been in the job 15 or 16 months and had had 3 transfer windows.

[WhileTheChief..]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hibs could appoint pep or klopp and if they had a bad 6 months this place would want them out

Sent from my SM-A908B using Tapatalk

That would depend on results. If they only get us 1 win in 15 games or similar then aye, I’d want them binned too.

What’s so wrong about wanting a manager that helps us win games? It used to be the norm.

[WhileTheChief..]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I remember the GTF chants in his last game and the sacking happening shortly after, as in very shortly.

Panic set in and some might say it’s not lifted since.

That was the game away to Livvi I think?

Maybe less than 100 or so folk calling for JR to go and the board shat itself. You’re spot on, we’re still suffering from it and will be for a while yet I imagine.