Hibs Accounts - Year end June 2023

[AugustaHibs]

Thought I would create a separate thread so it doesn’t get lost within the AGM thread and whilst related, they are separate discussion.

https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/Final-Signed-Accounts-30.06.2323.pdf

Accounts linked above.

What do people make of them?

The figures that jump out is a £7.1m trading loss (minus player sales) and a wage to turnover ratio of 81% which is way above the recommended 70%.

[MelbourneHibees]

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Thought I would create a separate thread so it doesn’t get lost within the AGM thread and whilst related, they are separate discussion.

https://d3tepru76oevpi.cloudfront.net/production/Final-Signed-Accounts-30.06.2323.pdf

Accounts linked above.

What do people make of them?

The figures that jump out is a £7.1m trading loss (minus player sales) and a wage to turnover ratio of 81% which is way above the recommended 70%.

As was highlighted on the other thread Hibs predict that with record tur over expected this year the wage ratio will return to around 65% next year hopefully.

[AugustaHibs]

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As was highlighted on the other thread Hibs predict that with record tur over expected this year the wage ratio will return to around 65% next year hopefully.

Hopefully then.

We have signed a fair few boys and a lot of them will be on decent wages (vente , youan and levitt) which won’t help the next set of figures.

We should be doing everything we can to try and get 5th as we need the money.

[Hibees1973]

Hmm, I'm struggling to find a positive spin on this.

Maybe someone else can.

[Stairway 2 7]

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As was highlighted on the other thread Hibs predict that with record tur over expected this year the wage ratio will return to around 65% next year hopefully.

Yeah trinityhfc shared it

'Based on that, the Club expects to have record breaking revenue for the year ending 30 June 2024. For the period to 31 December 2023, the Club has produced positive earnings before interest and amortisation, inclusive of gains from player trading, and maintained a staff to turnover of 65%.'

[Stairway 2 7]

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Hmm, I'm struggling to find a positive spin on this.

Maybe someone else can.

That many million of it is one of purchases like the pitch or hospitality that will increase our turnover in the following years. Also the Gordon's willing to write off 6 million debt for shares

[southern hibby]

Is there anywhere I could buy a share or two just so I could attend the AGM, etc?

Also would love to have a share just so I can say I’m a ( minuscule ) part owner.

GGTTH

[CropleyWasGod]

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That many million of it is one of purchases like the pitch or hospitality that will increase our turnover in the following years. Also the Gordon's willing to write off 6 million debt for shares

Those costs don't affect the loss.

But I'm with you on the crumbs of optimism.

[CropleyWasGod]

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Is there anywhere I could buy a share or two just so I could attend the AGM, etc?
Also would love to have a share just so I can say I’m a ( minuscule ) part owner.

GGTTH

It would need to be from a current shareholder.

I'm not sure if the Club maintain a register of "willing sellers", but you could approach them in the first instance.

Or wait until Saturday evening, and you'll get someone on here paying you to take them off their hands.

[DarrenSQH]

£326,818 pay and £25000 pension for Ben Kensall over the year

[Brightside]

I think its really important to create another thread where we get a chance to post all the information again. Just so we don't lose track of it of course....

[Hibees1973]

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That many million of it is one of purchases like the pitch or hospitality that will increase our turnover in the following years. Also the Gordon's willing to write off 6 million debt for shares

So the best way to sum it up is The Gordons have more money than sense.

[Stairway 2 7]

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So the best way to sum it up is The Gordons have more money than sense.

You could say that about all people that give millions to football clubs, Anderson across the road too. Oh to be rich

[WhileTheChief..]

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I think its really important to create another thread where we get a chance to post all the information again. Just so we don't lose track of it of course....

One day you might post something interesting that folk want to read.

Nothing wrong with this thread. It’s handy for those of us interested.

[CropleyWasGod]

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So the best way to sum it up is The Gordons have more money than sense.

No.

The best way to sum it up is to say that the Gordons have decided that the best way of getting their loan back is to invest in a business that they have grown, and can continue to grow to the extent that they will get that money back, and more.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

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Hmm, I'm struggling to find a positive spin on this.

Maybe someone else can.

I'm sure the usual suspects will!

[jeffers]

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No.

The best way to sum it up is to say that the Gordons have decided that the best way of getting their loan back is to invest in a business that they have grown, and can continue to grow to the extent that they will get that money back, and more.

So it’s in their best interests for the club to do well. Sounds reasonable to me.

[Paul1642]

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Hmm, I'm struggling to find a positive spin on this.

Maybe someone else can.

I’m yet to see you find a positive spin on anything Hibs related so why would this be any different.

I’ll take a shot at it - Our owners have invested in both the infrastructure of the club which will benefit us long term, and the playing squad which despite not having paid off yet, at least shows intent to take us forward as a club rather than settling for bottom end of the top 6 which will be our limit if we don’t match the spending of Aberdeen and Hearts. If we hadn’t invested in the squad and were performing the way we are now there would likely be the same outrage seen in the Petire out day.

The Gordon’s have then absorbed these losses as shares so nothing lost as a club as far as I can see, the risk is all on the owners.

Then to top of off we have million of £ in investment inbound.

[overdrive]

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It would need to be from a current shareholder.

I'm not sure if the Club maintain a register of "willing sellers", but you could approach them in the first instance.

Or wait until Saturday evening, and you'll get someone on here paying you to take them off their hands.

I don't think they do. IIRC they stopped allowing shareholders transferring their shares to others shortly after the takeover. I think the suggestion was so to stop folk transferring their individual shareholding over to HSL. Presumably there was exceptions, e.g. when shareholders died.

https://www.hibs.net/showthread.php?...e-shares/page1

[lucky]

There is nothing positive in these results. We've overspent and underachieved.

[SickBoy32]

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I’m yet to see you find a positive spin on anything Hibs related so why would this be any different.

I’ll take a shot at it - Our owners have invested in both the infrastructure of the club which will benefit us long term, and the playing squad which despite not having paid off yet, at least shows intent to take us forward as a club rather than settling for bottom end of the top 6 which will be our limit if we don’t match the spending of Aberdeen and Hearts. If we hadn’t invested in the squad and were performing the way we are now there would likely be the same outrage seen in the Petire out day.

The Gordon’s have then absorbed these losses as shares so nothing lost as a club as far as I can see, the risk is all on the owners.

Then to top of off we have million of £ in investment inbound.

We managed to compete (with a smaller budget) with Aberdeen and hearts when we were being run as a football club, not buying this nonsense that we need to have x number of hospitality lounges to have a prayer of competing. Just need someone competent running the club.

As for the Gordons absorbing the losses? Too right they should, they have created this mess. In addition to that, the proposed share issue will dilute the shareholding of fans wishing to safeguard the future of the club. To me, that is the club losing out.

And the Foley investment - expect yet more infrastructure to simply boost the value of the club (for the owners benefit) with a few token loans thrown in.

These accounts just show in black and white what a mess our owners / CEO are continuing to create. All very bleak IMO.

[Not In The Know]

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We managed to compete (with a smaller budget) with Aberdeen and hearts when we were being run as a football club, not buying this nonsense that we need to have x number of hospitality lounges to have a prayer of competing. Just need someone competent running the club.

As for the Gordons absorbing the losses? Too right they should, they have created this mess. In addition to that, the proposed share issue will dilute the shareholding of fans wishing to safeguard the future of the club. To me, that is the club losing out.

And the Foley investment - expect yet more infrastructure to simply boost the value of the club (for the owners benefit) with a few token loans thrown in.

These accounts just show in black and white what a mess our owners / CEO are continuing to create. All very bleak IMO.

Thats a very short-sited and outdated opinion.

[SickBoy32]

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Thats a very short-sited and outdated opinion.

What part(s) do you disagree with?

We were told to be patient many times previously, when we were reducing the debt / upgrading the stadium / building the training centre - when can we expect to ‘compete’ ?

[Torto7]

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I’m yet to see you find a positive spin on anything Hibs related so why would this be any different.

I’ll take a shot at it - Our owners have invested in both the infrastructure of the club which will benefit us long term, and the playing squad which despite not having paid off yet, at least shows intent to take us forward as a club rather than settling for bottom end of the top 6 which will be our limit if we don’t match the spending of Aberdeen and Hearts. If we hadn’t invested in the squad and were performing the way we are now there would likely be the same outrage seen in the Petire out day.

The Gordon’s have then absorbed these losses as shares so nothing lost as a club as far as I can see, the risk is all on the owners.

Then to top of off we have million of £ in investment inbound.

Which is broadly what Ron Gordon said when he arrived. Leanne failed utterly off the field. Wasn't she on higher wages than BK as well.

[SickBoy32]

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Which is broadly what Ron Gordon said when he arrived. Leanne failed utterly off the field. Wasn't she on higher wages than BK as well.

Give me utter failure off the field with what she helped deliver on the field.

Did RG say that we’d have to watch Aberdeen and Hearts x 2 enjoy group stage football, whilst we flounder to try and sneak into the top6?

Less than half the salary of Kensell too, but bash on.

[Paul1642]

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We managed to compete (with a smaller budget) with Aberdeen and hearts when we were being run as a football club, not buying this nonsense that we need to have x number of hospitality lounges to have a prayer of competing. Just need someone competent running the club.

As for the Gordons absorbing the losses? Too right they should, they have created this mess. In addition to that, the proposed share issue will dilute the shareholding of fans wishing to safeguard the future of the club. To me, that is the club losing out.

And the Foley investment - expect yet more infrastructure to simply boost the value of the club (for the owners benefit) with a few token loans thrown in.

These accounts just show in black and white what a mess our owners / CEO are continuing to create. All very bleak IMO.

Yes we competed with Hearts and Aberdeen on a lower budget but that is not going to happen very often. It relies on us over performing and then both underperforming at the same time. Terrible long term strategy.

Investment off the field is essential for our long term success. The years of prioritising it over the playing squad have been painful but now we are prioritising both equally and that’s the right approach.

[Paul1642]

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That’s not much of an argument that.

Sickboy has raised the points he feels are concerning yet all the posts have just insulted the quality of the post/the poster.

None have refuted the claims made.

See above….

Are folk suggesting that despite incoming investment we only spend what we earn (which will be lower without off field investment).

We tried this since the early 2000s and it’s been pretty grim for the most part.

[southern hibby]

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It would need to be from a current shareholder.

I'm not sure if the Club maintain a register of "willing sellers", but you could approach them in the first instance.

Or wait until Saturday evening, and you'll get someone on here paying you to take them off their hands.

Thanks CWG. I will ask tomorrow night when I’m in.

GGTTH

[Alex Trager]

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See above….

Are folk suggesting that despite incoming investment we only spend what we earn (which will be lower without off field investment).

We tried this since the early 2000s and it’s been pretty grim for the most part.

I thought that was the point?

Raise income via all fields possible and spend it?

[Paul1642]

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I thought that was the point?

Raise income via all fields possible and spend it?

Yes, and doing this whilst simultaneously spending on the playing squad is why we build up the new debt (which has been absorbed by owners).

Which one of these two should we not have spend money on?

Easy to say the playing squad because the current squad have not worked out but that’s easy to say with hindsight.