Lost the dressing room?

[keep the faith]

Lead post on slating fish, ultra negative on every other thread and now this. You really need to day off here.

It's terrible right now. Yesterday is the worse I've seen, but the constant negativity is not good for you, this forum or the club.

Seriously mate, let's put this in perspective and take a deep breath.

[hibee-boys]

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He's lost the fans and once that happens you are always 1 bad game away from the sack

I agree, the tone from the stands was very different yesterday. A defeat from Celtic may not trigger an exit, a humiliation may do, but anything other than a win at ICT will see him gone. The only defence I can offer in giving him more time is getting the loan players up to match fitness and getting Boyle/Miller back in. There will be no excuses then, his players available fit, no injuries to complain about. Even if we win at ICT, if he goes a run of 2/3 games without a win then that’ll be that.

[Broxburn Greens]

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It wasn’t Youan’s first match and he certainly wasn’t playing for him, or us, or even himself today. Similar with Levitt.

Too many on that pitch with no pride and no desire to win. Or even to to compete.

Where does the motivation to have that pride and desire to win come from?

Many will say it’s from yourself and that partly true but it also has to come from your leadership and mentors…

That’s 100% the Head Coach/Manager and his coaching team…. The desire to win is not being instilled into them by the Manager and there’s no fight.

We have another Manager who just stands on the sidelines with his hands in his pockets I’m afraid.


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[B.H.F.C]

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Where does the motivation to have that pride and desire to win come from?

Many will say it’s from yourself and that partly true but it also has to come from your leadership and mentors…

That’s 100% the Head Coach/Manager and his coaching team…. The desire to win is not being instilled into them by the Manager and there’s no fight.

We have another Manager who just stands on the sidelines with his hands in his pockets I’m afraid.


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For me, there is a difference between players not playing or applying themselves to their maximum and what we saw from some players yesterday, Youan being the main one. I don’t think lack of willingness to do basic things that you need to do in a game of football can ever be put 100% at the managers door.

That isn’t any defence of Montgomery by the way but **** the players, their crap attitude and lack of desire.

[hibsbollah]

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Mikey Stewart has talked about length about players who fans claim are apparently not trying. His take is that nobody deliberately doesn't try on the pitch - sometimes, lack of confidence, a manager that isn't working for you or whatever is happening mentally in a negative fashion could mean that you don't give your best. I think there is a lot of sense in that take.

I think thats fair comment, but it depends how you mean ‘try’. If youve got a lack of confidence, that in itself means youre not going to try things and go into your shell, so it may as well be the same thing as actual cowardice.

Courage isnt an absence of fear. Thats being psychotic. Courage is having the fear and doing it anyway.

[B.H.F.C]

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Mikey Stewart has talked about length about players who fans claim are apparently not trying. His take is that nobody deliberately doesn't try on the pitch - sometimes, lack of confidence, a manager that isn't working for you or whatever is happening mentally in a negative fashion could mean that you don't give your best. I think there is a lot of sense in that take.

Players just love an excuse and, when things aren’t going well, it’ll always be down to the manager. The first goal yesterday is a good example. It wasn’t confusion, lack of confidence or whatever that led to Obita not putting in a proper effort to stop the cross, it was just laziness.

I don’t think players deliberately go out to be crap. I do think there are millions of examples of them not going out and giving their all though.

[HFC 0-7]

It may be that the volume of new players coming in, the link up with Bournemouth has unsettled the team. Has foley coming into the fold changed the vision Montgomery had. Yesterday looked like, to me anyway, something had unsettled the team. One or two players being off it happens, yesterday looked like the whole team. Wouldn’t say he has lost the dressing room, to me it just looked like the whole team looked unfocused.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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And they are the opposite of what thr manager wanted and then says he’s pleased with the window. In fairness he has to say that.

Triantis was his own personal number one target apparently?

[hibee-boys]

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Triantis was his own personal number one target apparently?

Growing evidence of players performing well in the Mickey Mouse league in Oz not hacking it in more competitive leagues over here. I can see why, from yesterday’s performance, why he’s not had many minutes for Sunderland. I hope he proves me wrong!

[Stubbsy90+2]

I struggle to believe he’s ever really had the dressing room.

Imagine having someone stroll in the door who only knows one desperately basic way of playing who declares it’s the only way he’ll ever play. The players will have known from the off that this was never going to work, plenty fans knew it and called it months ago. It was clear as day he was going to be a failure at Hibs when he declared he was only going to play the way we do and he’d never change.

Throw in the fact he is probably the dullest manager I can remember at Hibs and you’ve not exactly got much incentive to believe in him if you’re a player, do you?

[Springbank]

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It wasn’t Youan’s first match and he certainly wasn’t playing for him, or us, or even himself today. Similar with Levitt.

Too many on that pitch with no pride and no desire to win. Or even to to compete.

This is the key

We have guys who think they're Pirlo or Pelè

They just got pumped by James Scott & Alex Gogic, coached by a manager who knows how to shut the back door (at one end of the pitch) while preying on the glaring weaknesses in our team.

[wookie70]

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This is the key

We have guys who think they're Pirlo or Pelè

They just got pumped by James Scott & Alex Gogic, coached by a manager who knows how to shut the back door (at one end of the pitch) while preying on the glaring weaknesses in our team.

I think Montgomery needs to start thinking this way. He knew we had glaring weaknesses but never thought to mitigate against them. Having Elie(even when he does make the effort) in front of Whittaker is an open invite. That is particularly so against a team who are excellent at getting quality balls from wide into the box and having a physical presence and runners in there when it arrives.

As far as I can see Montgomery's plan is exactly the opposite of what you said Robinson's was being open at the back and playing to all our own weaknesses without ever working with our strengths. To me the players look beat before they get on the pitch, hard to see how that changes when there is precious little character on the pitch. There was a tiny glimmer in Monty's post match interview when at last he recognised that we weren't competing or fighting. To me that has been the case for weeks, Forfar being a prime example.

[NC1875]

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I think Montgomery needs to start thinking this way. He knew we had glaring weaknesses but never thought to mitigate against them. Having Elie(even when he does make the effort) in front of Whittaker is an open invite. That is particularly so against a team who are excellent at getting quality balls from wide into the box and having a physical presence and runners in there when it arrives.

As far as I can see Montgomery's plan is exactly the opposite of what you said Robinson's was being open at the back and playing to all our own weaknesses without ever working with our strengths. To me the players look beat before they get on the pitch, hard to see how that changes when there is precious little character on the pitch. There was a tiny glimmer in Monty's post match interview when at last he recognised that we weren't competing or fighting. To me that has been the case for weeks, Forfar being a prime example.

Yeah he recognised there was no competing or fighting. But also said he’s not had that often since he came in which is absolute rubbish. We’re bullied most weeks.

[tamig]

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Loving it right enough.

Put the bottle down and get some sleep.

You’re all over the board with your usual negativity. Starting threads, chipping in on others. Loving it. No alcohol for me and take offence at that comment.

[HH81]

I posted that I think some players have been told their time is up in the summer and the performances reflect that.

[wookie70]

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Yeah he recognised there was no competing or fighting. But also said he’s not had that often since he came in which is absolute rubbish. We’re bullied most weeks.

Agreed, I'm trying to see a wee bit of light in that he has actually came out and said it. I can't stand managers who always see the bright side of things. Sometimes we are not good enough and there is nothing wrong with letting players, as a group, hear that publicly. He may not use as many words but he is similar in some ways to LJ in his after match remarks. Always trying to see the positives and never really blaming the plan

[B.H.F.C]

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Yeah he recognised there was no competing or fighting. But also said he’s not had that often since he came in which is absolute rubbish. We’re bullied most weeks.

I disagree that we’ve been bullied most weeks. We’ve been crap but even just last week we showed a bit fight to come back from 2 down. It’s quality that has been severely lacking, particularly defensively.

I thought yesterday was a completely different type of ‘performance’ from some of them though. There were players there who didn’t give a **** yesterday.

[jeffers]

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I posted that I think some players have been told their time is up in the summer and the performances reflect that.

Out of interest who do you think those players are ?

[One Day Soon]

Youan is, let’s say, a confidence player. Someone who seems to struggle with consistency of performance. If you have a manager who routinely plays him out of position - and in a formation and with tactics that simply make him a redundant luxury - then days like yesterday from that player will happen more often than not.

Montgomery seems to be managing to make good players average, average players poor and poor players awful. To get this far into a season with your preferred style patently not working and have no plan b betrays a pretty threadbare managerial toolkit or a pig headed obstinacy that demands action from the club.

Unfortunately the club is led by dilettantes with little to no football knowledge or experience who are simply unable to understand, let alone address and remedy, the very serious serial football failings we are now lumbered with. Of course one reason why they may be reluctant to bring in a manager with a degree of football authority and seniority is that he would likely call it how it is in respect of the squad, the signings and how we go about our football business.

[superfurryhibby]

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Youan is, let’s say, a confidence player. Someone who seems to struggle with consistency of performance. If you have a manager who routinely plays him out of position - and in a formation and with tactics that simply make him a redundant luxury - then days like yesterday from that player will happen more often than not.

Montgomery seems to be managing to make good players average, average players poor and poor players awful. To get this far into a season with your preferred style patently not working and have no plan b betrays a pretty threadbare managerial toolkit or a pig headed obstinacy that demands action from the club.

Unfortunately the club is led by dilettantes with little to no football knowledge or experience who are simply unable to understand, let alone address and remedy, the very serious serial football failings we are now lumbered with. Of course one reason why they may be reluctant to bring in a manager with a degree of football authority and seniority is that he would likely call it how it is in respect of the squad, the signings and how we go about our football business.

Those same dilettantes (not sure what that really means, but I like it) will be appointing the next manager.

I wonder too if the way the club's football operation is run is a significant barrier to appointing a tried and tested manager. People in football will have opinions and talk to each other. Guys like McInnes or Robinson, they're not going to want to just manage what they're given. Surely if Monty had any meaningful say in what comes in , he would have been targeting a different kind of player (like one who is actually able to make us better?).

[Heisenberg]

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Those same dilettantes (not sure what that really means, but I like it) will be appointing the next manager.

I wonder too if the way the club's football operation is run is a significant barrier to appointing a tried and tested manager. People in football will have opinions and talk to each other. Guys like McInnes or Robinson, they're not going to want to just manage what they're given. Surely if Monty had any meaningful say in what comes in , he would have been targeting a different kind of player (like one who is actually able to make us better?).

Triantis was his main target at centre half for the entire transfer window.

[One Day Soon]

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Those same dilettantes (not sure what that really means, but I like it) will be appointing the next manager.

I wonder too if the way the club's football operation is run is a significant barrier to appointing a tried and tested manager. People in football will have opinions and talk to each other. Guys like McInnes or Robinson, they're not going to want to just manage what they're given. Surely if Monty had any meaningful say in what comes in , he would have been targeting a different kind of player (like one who is actually able to make us better?).

Dilettante: a person who cultivates an area of interest, such as the arts, without real commitment or knowledge.

[DIXIHIBS]

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I disagree that we’ve been bullied most weeks. We’ve been crap but even just last week we showed a bit fight to come back from 2 down. It’s quality that has been severely lacking, particularly defensively.

I thought yesterday was a completely different type of ‘performance’ from some of them though. There were players there who didn’t give a **** yesterday.

We were certainly bullied yesterday (it didnt take much) and im afraid Youan, Jair,Levitt etc are not the type to stand up to bullies. Very hard to watch yesterday.

[B.H.F.C]

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We were certainly bullied yesterday (it didnt take much) and im afraid Youan, Jair,Levitt etc are not the type to stand up to bullies. Very hard to watch yesterday.

Of course we were yesterday. Just not every week over Montgomery’s tenure.

[Joe6-2]

I know it happens, but I detest the thought of players not giving 100% for, club, themselves and especially the fans.
They also get bloody paid to do it too!

[eastmainsmsh]

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I posted that I think some players have been told their time is up in the summer and the performances reflect that.

Reeks of Butchers tenure and that ended in Relegation

[Unseen work]

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We were certainly bullied yesterday (it didnt take much) and im afraid Youan, Jair,Levitt etc are not the type to stand up to bullies. Very hard to watch yesterday.

I was actually thinking during the window when we were linked with Penrice how that could transform the squad along with the return of Cadden.

If you had Cadden and Penrice wide midfield that would make a considerable difference to our work rate in the midfield. Add them in with Marcondes, Amos or Moriah Welsh and it has a much improved balance

I saw Newell giving jair a talking to yesterday for not tracking a man which jair clearly had sort of excuse for

[VoltaireHibs]

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I struggle to believe he’s ever really had the dressing room.

Imagine having someone stroll in the door who only knows one desperately basic way of playing who declares it’s the only way he’ll ever play. The players will have known from the off that this was never going to work, plenty fans knew it and called it months ago. It was clear as day he was going to be a failure at Hibs when he declared he was only going to play the way we do and he’d never change.

Throw in the fact he is probably the dullest manager I can remember at Hibs and you’ve not exactly got much incentive to believe in him if you’re a player, do you?

I tend to agree with you. These players may lack quality but they know the league and they've won enough games in the past to know what it takes. I suspect they just collectively went 'Yeah, we'll give it our best shot' when NM appeared, whilst proceeding with the almost certain knowledge it was doomed to failure. Yesterday the wheels fell off.

I don't even think it's about systems or players at this point, it's just NM's inability to coach at this level. It's certainly shown up the Aussie league for what it is if this guy could win it. He can't buy a win in his league.

[He's here!]

I recall not long after Monty arrived that Vente was full of praise for the new way Hibs were being asked to play and claiming we now had a proper system. I wonder if he feels that way now.

We also had plenty of praise from the fans after Monty's early games, saying how refreshing it was to see a team set up in an identifiable way and being clear about the way they were meant to play.

The speed at which all that has unravelled so spectacularly does possibly hint at something not clicking behind the scenes.

[jeffers]

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I recall not long after Monty arrived that Vente was full of praise for the new way Hibs were being asked to play and claiming we now had a proper system. I wonder if he feels that way now.

We also had plenty of praise from the fans after Monty's early games, saying how refreshing it was to see a team set up in an identifiable way and being clear about the way they were meant to play.

The speed at which all that has unravelled so spectacularly does possibly hint at something not clicking behind the scenes.

Maybe they are thinking it was great when it was working but when it doesn’t what are we going to do that’s different rather than just continuing to do exactly the same.