Monty on trial?

[Pretty Boy]

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It’s not a case of undermining the manager or boo boys unable to wait to see the team fail.

It’s the fact that we are at the start of something new, something exciting. Something I have never witnessed in my 40 odd years supporting Hibs. Major investment by a billionaire..

Monty happens to be the incumbent and it’s a great opportunity for him and I hope he has us flying. However, if he doesn’t I just feel he might not get the time he deserves because of the standards set from the new investors.

Really don’t want this thread to be a ‘slag the manager’ type thing, it would be pressure for anyone, but I feel we have to accept things are different now and he has to deliver. He will know this of course and hopefully will thrive on it.

Yep.

It's all levels obviously but Man City judge managers to totally different standards these days compared to the time of Joy Royle and Brian Horton. Good managers like Mancini and Pellegrini were hugely successful by the old standards but not good enough for the new.

As I said above it's a new era for Hibs and the old standards of 3rd once a decade or less isn't going to cut it anymore. The new investment is an amazing opportunity for Montgomery and it's in the best interests of everyone if he is the man and we kick on under him. It's also a whole new pressure on him to deliver and that's fair enough.

I daresay there are a tiny minority who would rather be right than see the manager succeed but for most the hope will be that we have the man already in place. If we don't then the change will be made again. Let's hope that the former is the case.

[MKHIBEE]

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Dramatic

Lots of drama about. Let’s see how the rest of the season pans out before we send out the lynching party

[WhileTheChief..]

Kinda feels like a fresh start today.

Don’t think NM is under any more pressure than usual for a Hibs manager and am looking forward to seeing how his team performs now.

[eastmainsmsh]

Think NM will kick on starting with a win today GGTTH hopefully this is start of good things for Hibs

[Eyrie]

Montgomery is definitely on trial.

We all expect a large transfer budget in the summer so he has to prove that he is the manager who can maximise the benefit of the spending. He's been backed in this window so has the opportunity to show what he can do with his own players. If he does he'll be here next season. If he doesn't then he'll be gone.

As Hibs fans we should all want him to succeed because that means we have a successful team.

Fingers crossed.

[jakeshibs]

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No doubt the manager will be delighted to get the new guys on board in January. However, with the new investment there is bound to be pressure and expectations for him to get the team playing good football, winning matches and climbing the table.

There is always pressure on a Hibs manager, but do you think he is essentially on trial to the end of the season to see if he is the man to lead this project?

why are we are supporters even asking these questions, we are constantly looking at ways to discredit the manager of our club, why dont we get behind him and his players show our support, do our bit.

This constant hounding out managers is getting us know where, extremely expensive and not productive, look at Sir Alex Fergusons record at Manchester United, they persevered and reaped the rewards, if he was at Hibs, we would have booted him out and never achieved any success as our history clearly demonstrates.

[Greensunshine]

I don’t think it’s just Monty who is on trial. It’s the whole team behind him who help identify players.

It’s got to be said that more than a few of the players who have passed through this great club in recent years haven’t been a good fit.
We must start to recruit better.

The manager can’t work miracles.

[The Modfather]

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I don’t think a manager should only be judged on their ability to build a side.

If you sack one manager for underachieving, then the next one has to get better results otherwise they’re also underachieving

I think an element of mitigation also has to be allowed for what a manager is inheriting. You can’t expect a manager to get much more out of a patchwork squad compiled by various managers at the same time a recruitment strategy that was then subsequently binned because it had been disastrously implemented. I don’t think a manager should be properly judged until he has a spine of the team he can work with.

When we sign new players to for the spine of the team, like Kenneh or Harbottle, who are then loaned out at the next window I don’t think it’s fair to expect anything different than the squad has previously delivered.

There also had to be signs of progress or a glimpse into the future of course. Monty identifying straight away that Stevenson & Hanlon weren’t the answer, and that in his first window he has identified the midfield and central defence as our biggest issues is encouraging as previous managers haven’t made much of an attempt to rebuild either area.

[basehibby]

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why are we are supporters even asking these questions, we are constantly looking at ways to discredit the manager of our club, why dont we get behind him and his players show our support, do our bit.

This constant hounding out managers is getting us know where, extremely expensive and not productive, look at Sir Alex Fergusons record at Manchester United, they persevered and reaped the rewards, if he was at Hibs, we would have booted him out and never achieved any success as our history clearly demonstrates.

The OP is merely asking a question - and I cannot see a single reply that is "hounding" the manager.
The consensus seems to be that of course Monty is on trial - as is any football manager - only the stakes just got higher with the Foley investment. That said, there is a lot of good will and a great desire for Monty to succeed.
Seems a pretty reasonable discussion to have!

[Pretty Boy]

I thought this would be an interesting thread to revisit today.

I was very much of the opinion Montgomery was on trial yesterday morning, by last night I was fully in the get him to **** camp. However by tonight I think my stance has softened. Don't get me wrong if I read tomorrow he had been mutually consented I doubt I would shed many tears.

However we are where we are now. We had a terrible start, a bit of a new manager bounce and are now on a very concerning run. However what are the options? Sack Monty and give it to Gray? Do we then risk boxing ourselves into a corner as Aberdeen did with Robson and then trusting one of the biggest jobs in the country and our biggest budget ever to a rookie manager? Is it likely popular choices in Robinson and McInnes would walk out on a chase for European football mid season to take on a team in something resembling freefall?

I don't think we will end up in the play offs and equally I don't think we are capable of putting a run together to challenge for Europe. So with that in mind are we as well just sticking with what we have and letting the man currently in the job prove he either deserves to stay or deserves to go? I'm just not convinced there is huge merit in sacking a manager now when we will be in a far stronger position to make an appointment in the summer when there is clarity around the incoming investment and a fair few players departing the scene for good.

I suppose my question is does Montgomery deserve an extended trial between now and the end of the season?

[Johnny_Leith]

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I thought this would be an interesting thread to revisit today.

I was very much of the opinion Montgomery was on trial yesterday morning, by last night I was fully in the get him to **** camp. However by tonight I think my stance has softened. Don't get me wrong if I read tomorrow he had been mutually consented I doubt I would shed many tears.

However we are where we are now. We had a terrible start, a bit of a new manager bounce and are now on a very concerning run. However what are the options? Sack Monty and give it to Gray? Do we then risk boxing ourselves into a corner as Aberdeen did with Robson and then trusting one of the biggest jobs in the country and our biggest budget ever to a rookie manager? Is it likely popular choices in Robinson and McInnes would walk out on a chase for European football mid season to take on a team in something resembling freefall?

I don't think we will end up in the play offs and equally I don't think we are capable of putting a run together to challenge for Europe. So with that in mind are we as well just sticking with what we have and letting the man currently in the job prove he either deserves to stay or deserves to go? I'm just not convinced there is huge merit in sacking a manager now when we will be in a far stronger position to make an appointment in the summer when there is clarity around the incoming investment and a fair few players departing the scene for good.

I suppose my question is does Montgomery deserve an extended trial between now and the end of the season?

Whilst I can see your point from a strategic point of view, for me Montgomery hasn't done anywhere near well enough to be granted an extension.

He wasn't able to get the squad, which qualified for Europe last season and beat a good Luzern team, playing well.

He's tactically inflexible and his changes mid game have yet to positively affect a game - they've certainly negatively affected a few.

He regularly states there are no excuses and then proceeds to blame injuries and international duty as the reason he can't get a tune out of the players he has available.

When we have been winning, we've generally won tight games. We've not seen a convincing performance from him yet and of our 'big' fixtures at home we've scored 0 goals Vs hearts, Celtic and rangers. He looks incapable of getting the team up for the big occasion, not to mention we shat the bed Vs 10 man Aberdeen in tbe semi final.

I do not think it's been a strong start from NM and his team at all and the closer we get to that play off trapdoor, the iticher the boards finger will get.

I would love nothing more than chowing down on a big slice of humble pie and having a few comforting wins with good performances over the next month, I just can't see it.

[B.H.F.C]

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I thought this would be an interesting thread to revisit today.

I was very much of the opinion Montgomery was on trial yesterday morning, by last night I was fully in the get him to **** camp. However by tonight I think my stance has softened. Don't get me wrong if I read tomorrow he had been mutually consented I doubt I would shed many tears.

However we are where we are now. We had a terrible start, a bit of a new manager bounce and are now on a very concerning run. However what are the options? Sack Monty and give it to Gray? Do we then risk boxing ourselves into a corner as Aberdeen did with Robson and then trusting one of the biggest jobs in the country and our biggest budget ever to a rookie manager? Is it likely popular choices in Robinson and McInnes would walk out on a chase for European football mid season to take on a team in something resembling freefall?

I don't think we will end up in the play offs and equally I don't think we are capable of putting a run together to challenge for Europe. So with that in mind are we as well just sticking with what we have and letting the man currently in the job prove he either deserves to stay or deserves to go? I'm just not convinced there is huge merit in sacking a manager now when we will be in a far stronger position to make an appointment in the summer when there is clarity around the incoming investment and a fair few players departing the scene for good.

I suppose my question is does Montgomery deserve an extended trial between now and the end of the season?

I really can’t decide. I’ve desperately wanted him to improve things because I don’t want to be sacking another manager. But yesterday was a totally different level of performance to anything I can remember. I really can’t remember seeing players so visibly chucking it so early in a game.

We need to see some fight on Wednesday. I don’t expect a result but he needs to shake the team up and muster a team that he thinks is going to run and tackle. We then need to go and beat Inverness.

I think it’s impossible now to say let’s give him the rest of the season. Wednesday is about a reaction and the result will be what it’ll be but he needs to get some wins beyond that.

[Pretty Boy]

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Whilst I can see your point from a strategic point of view, for me Montgomery hasn't done anywhere near well enough to be granted an extension.

He wasn't able to get the squad, which qualified for Europe last season and beat a good Luzern team, playing well.

He's tactically inflexible and his changes mid game have yet to positively affect a game - they've certainly negatively affected a few.

He regularly states there are no excuses and then proceeds to blame injuries and international duty as the reason he can't get a tune out of the players he has available.

When we have been winning, we've generally won tight games. We've not seen a convincing performance from him yet and of our 'big' fixtures at home we've scored 0 goals Vs hearts, Celtic and rangers. He looks incapable of getting the team up for the big occasion, not to mention we shat the bed Vs 10 man Aberdeen in tbe semi final.

I do not think it's been a strong start from NM and his team at all and the closer we get to that play off trapdoor, the iticher the boards finger will get.

I would love nothing more than chowing down on a big slice of humble pie and having a few comforting wins with good performances over the next month, I just can't see it.

I can't argue with you because I could have typed almost the same thing myself and it would probably have made more sense than my own logic.

I'm just at the point at which I can't be arsed with another 'Gray until the end of the season' scenario. The whole new manager thing happens so often now that I can't get excited by it anymore.

I suppose I just think it might be better for Montgomery to really balls it up rather than acting now and putting ourselves in an awkward position mid season. I totally get others will believe we are already beyond that point and he has to go.

[Since90+2]

He won't get an 'extended" trial. Said on another thread but,IMO, the board will give him 3 league games to make an improvement. If not I've little doubt he'll be out the door.

The play offs and potential relegation at the moment, despite how pish we have been, is a pretty unlikely scenario. If that changes in the next few games and it becomes a genuine threat then he'll be out the door.

[Johnny_Leith]

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I can't argue with you because I could have typed almost the same thing myself and it would probably have made more sense than my own logic.

I'm just at the point at which I can't be arsed with another 'Gray until the end of the season' scenario. The whole new manager thing happens so often now that I can't get excited by it anymore.

I suppose I just think it might be better for Montgomery to really balls it up rather than acting now and putting ourselves in an awkward position mid season. I totally get others will believe we are already beyond that point and he has to go.

If he's given more time and results improve then there's several positive perspectives that could be garnished there.

Alternatively, if he continues makes an arse of it but we do enough to be safe then we can cut ties at thr end of the season and hopefully have a bit of a fresh slate with a new manager and then the squad over a bit.

If he starts getting us into trouble that's when action will need to be taken. Personally I think he will but we'll see. I'm not massively enthused by SDG taking the team but he's had some decent interim results before and I think anything would be better than what we've been served up so far.

[Crab apple]

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Whilst I can see your point from a strategic point of view, for me Montgomery hasn't done anywhere near well enough to be granted an extension.

He wasn't able to get the squad, which qualified for Europe last season and beat a good Luzern team, playing well.

He's tactically inflexible and his changes mid game have yet to positively affect a game - they've certainly negatively affected a few.

He regularly states there are no excuses and then proceeds to blame injuries and international duty as the reason he can't get a tune out of the players he has available.

When we have been winning, we've generally won tight games. We've not seen a convincing performance from him yet and of our 'big' fixtures at home we've scored 0 goals Vs hearts, Celtic and rangers. He looks incapable of getting the team up for the big occasion, not to mention we shat the bed Vs 10 man Aberdeen in tbe semi final.

I do not think it's been a strong start from NM and his team at all and the closer we get to that play off trapdoor, the iticher the boards finger will get.

I would love nothing more than chowing down on a big slice of humble pie and having a few comforting wins with good performances over the next month, I just can't see it.

He's got zero credit in the bank for all the reasons you state. After yesterday I don't think there is any way back for him. We are heading for the bottom six. I doubt he'll be fired though as then that piles the pressure on BK.

[Mikey_1875]

I think he was naturally on trial so to speak for the rest of the season before yesterday but that has now changed to a game by game basis. Not many managers ever fully recover from that but LJ did do enough to survive the season after the double derby debacle this time last year.

I think we would need similar from Monty but we could then find ourselves in exactly the same situation as LJ with a bad start to the next season. It’s a bit of a mess again unfortunately.

[Since452]

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I think he was naturally on trial so to speak for the rest of the season before yesterday but that has now changed to a game by game basis. Not many managers ever fully recover from that but LJ did do enough to survive the season after the double derby debacle this time last year.

I think we would need similar from Monty but we could then find ourselves in exactly the same situation as LJ with a bad start to the next season. It’s a bit of a mess again unfortunately.

Maybe we'll beat Celtic 6-0 😉

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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I'm not basing this on anything, but i just get the feeling our new investors will have an influence on us getting a new manager, and the first sign of a bad run he will be gone, and someone they have their eye on will be appointed very quickly.

This is where I am too.

[Just_Jimmy]

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I don’t get why people constantly look to undermine our manager.

I know, he's doing well enough on his own without our help.

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[J-C]

Foley and the Black Knights haven't bought into Hibs to see us squirming around in 8th or 9th place, they were very quick to get rid of O'Neil at Bournemouth and I'm pretty sure their investment, even a minor shareholding will allow them a major say in managerial appointments and how their money is to be used. They've invested to get us Europe on a regular basis and challenge the top 3, we're miles away from even looking like a top 6 team.

[James70]

Our players are good enough to avoid the play offs. If the situation should arise that we are seriously in trouble of being caught up I would expect NM to be given his books and another manager, interim or permanent to be brought in.

[007]

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I'm not basing this on anything, but i just get the feeling our new investors will have an influence on us getting a new manager, and the first sign of a bad run he will be gone, and someone they have their eye on will be appointed very quickly.

Is that not one of the very things we had to assure the SFA wouldn't happen?

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/...t-bournemouth/

"The SFA’s articles on dual interest state that nobody who is involved in the management or administration of a club, or has any power to manage or influence the management or administration of a club should be able to do so for another club."

[RIP]

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Our players are good enough to avoid the play offs. If the situation should arise that we are seriously in trouble of being caught up I would expect NM to be given his books and another manager, interim or permanent to be brought in.

As ingredients, the players have been good enough to win more games. But we have a greasy spoon chef instead of a cordon bleu.

The board can keep throwing out the old ingredients and replacing them with new if they think that will make a difference. But with Nick as chef, I don't trust him to serve up anything that's remotely palatable to the fans.

We could easily go another 6 games without a win. Like you, I can't believe that we can afford to wait until then.

[percy veer]

Crimes against football?

[VoltaireHibs]

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Foley and the Black Knights haven't bought into Hibs to see us squirming around in 8th or 9th place, they were very quick to get rid of O'Neil at Bournemouth and I'm pretty sure their investment, even a minor shareholding will allow them a major say in managerial appointments and how their money is to be used. They've invested to get us Europe on a regular basis and challenge the top 3, we're miles away from even looking like a top 6 team.

Lorient may beg to differ.

[May21/05/16]

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I don’t get why people constantly look to undermine our manager.

Agree he's had one transfer window and sme want change its in my humble opinion crazy

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[Gloucester Hibs]

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As ingredients, the players have been good enough to win more games. But we have a greasy spoon chef instead of a cordon bleu.

The board can keep throwing out the old ingredients and replacing them with new if they think that will make a difference. But with Nick as chef, I don't trust him to serve up anything that's remotely palatable to the fans.

We could easily go another 6 games without a win. Like you, I can't believe that we can afford to wait until then.

Fully expecting another sh** sandwich on Wednesday night

[The Modfather]

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Whilst I can see your point from a strategic point of view, for me Montgomery hasn't done anywhere near well enough to be granted an extension.

He wasn't able to get the squad, which qualified for Europe last season and beat a good Luzern team, playing well.

He's tactically inflexible and his changes mid game have yet to positively affect a game - they've certainly negatively affected a few.

He regularly states there are no excuses and then proceeds to blame injuries and international duty as the reason he can't get a tune out of the players he has available.

When we have been winning, we've generally won tight games. We've not seen a convincing performance from him yet and of our 'big' fixtures at home we've scored 0 goals Vs hearts, Celtic and rangers. He looks incapable of getting the team up for the big occasion, not to mention we shat the bed Vs 10 man Aberdeen in tbe semi final.

I do not think it's been a strong start from NM and his team at all and the closer we get to that play off trapdoor, the iticher the boards finger will get.

I would love nothing more than chowing down on a big slice of humble pie and having a few comforting wins with good performances over the next month, I just can't see it.

That same squad got Johnson sacked this season despite the 5th place finish last season and the Luzern tie this season, with almost no one arguing the case it wasn’t time for Johnson to go.

The luzern tie, particularly the home leg is a good example of issues out with the manager. We played 442 that night and Newell & levitt as our two. Newell was everything I want in a midfielder that night and drove us up the park and was approaching McGinn levels that night. Compare his, and Levitt’s, performance yesterday and over the last few months and it can’t be put solely down to formations and Johnson &Montgomery IMO.

The squad pre January signings will get any manager sacked within 12 months or so IMO.

[Lago]

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Dramatic

He's not along, plenty others on here.