Post winter transfer window discussion

[Not In The Know]

The reality is if half the new lads turn out a success, then we have added 3(.5) quality players to the squad.

I suppose if we were asked if that would do in December it wouldn't be a disaster.

[tug.lismore]

It is a massive amount of change to make mid way through the season.

Amos and Moriah-Welsh are here on permanent deals so one would imagine that they will be seen as potentially the midfield two going forward but will Montgomery throw both in together straight away?

Newell and Levitt is not working.

Marcondes and Maolida are here to make impact in the short term. Hopefully they shine bright for the time they are here.

Suspect that Triantis is ahead of Bevan in the queue for a start. Possibly Fish and Triantis going forward. However, we are unlikely to keep either of them for next season whereas Bevan could be back. Might see he get game time a RB to see what he about.

The Spanish youngster is a bit of an outlier. Can't see him starting games but might be an impact player.

Bar GK and LB, every player already in the squad now has competition for their spot. That has to be a good thing.

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[Diclonius]

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Thought I’d start a thread as for some reason OP felt the need to close the last one even though there was decent discussion.

I always close the thread after the window closes mate. No point having an enormous hundred pager taking up space on the board, more sense to have post-window chat like this one.

[matty_f]

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I also think we’re going to have to get used to a fair number of loan players or people with us for a short time.

And I hate to say it, but we’ll probably be in the position for eternity that we’re waiting until the end of August for the likes of Bournemouth and Lorient to complete their squads before we know who we’re going to get on loan.

The early window, with the thin squad for European football (if we manage to qualify) is something I think we’re going to need to take on the chin.

Monty (or whoever our manager / coach is) is just going to need to get used to turnover of players and be ready to mould teams with what he has at his disposal quickly.

I had this conversation a while back, and I agree with you.

A club our size would ideally have continuity, but the reality of the situation is that the players that tend to stay are the ones who are comfortable here - they've maybe seen Hibs as as the extent of their talent, we're a comfortable club to play for - great facilities, good payers, great city, no expectations to challenge for the title so you just have to be not completely rubbish to stay off the radar for flak.

Really good players, the ones that you want to build the team around, don't stick around too long at Hibs, so there's probably a strong argument to be made for kicking the arse out of the loan market if it means you can bring in better players than you'd be able to get permanently.

Having a great player for a season or a half season and then swapping them out for a new great player is probably preferable to a good player tied down to a three year deal, in theory.

There are obviously benefits to permanent signings - transfer income and some degree of stability is important, and you probably wouldn't want to rip up and start again ever transfer window so balance is important, but the loan market is definitely not to be sniffed at if used well.

[TheSouthMoroccan]

I think Matty pretty much nails it. Personally I think this season is a write off other than hopes of a wee cup run. Loaners look decent quality so we may see some decent football along the way and then in the summer we’ll clear the decks of the old guard and the weak links. A new team from August means that we can only really judge Monty next December. We’ll defo know by then whether he knows what he’s doing. I like him so I hope he succeeds.

[Centre Hawf]

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I had this conversation a while back, and I agree with you.

A club our size would ideally have continuity, but the reality of the situation is that the players that tend to stay are the ones who are comfortable here - they've maybe seen Hibs as as the extent of their talent, we're a comfortable club to play for - great facilities, good payers, great city, no expectations to challenge for the title so you just have to be not completely rubbish to stay off the radar for flak.

Really good players, the ones that you want to build the team around, don't stick around too long at Hibs, so there's probably a strong argument to be made for kicking the arse out of the loan market if it means you can bring in better players than you'd be able to get permanently.

Having a great player for a season or a half season and then swapping them out for a new great player is probably preferable to a good player tied down to a three year deal, in theory.

There are obviously benefits to permanent signings - transfer income and some degree of stability is important, and you probably wouldn't want to rip up and start again ever transfer window so balance is important, but the loan market is definitely not to be sniffed at if used well.

I agree with you and the post you quote, I think that may be the reality of our situation for the next while.

But it probably means we need to be realistic and also look within our own league still for a good core of players to allow us some continuity from window to window and season to season. We probably shouldn't be looking to form a new CB pairing every summer, you'd ideally like the next Paul Hanlon there ready to play beside the next Fish for example and a steady longer term keeper that has a relationship with 1 or 2 of the defenders in front of him.

So while I get some have said we should be aiming higher than some of the names that were said from within our league, I don't think we should ever look away from it either as ultimately there will be solid domestic players that will jump to play for Hibs. The trick is picking the best of them.

[overdrive]

I'm battle scarred enough now to refrain from saying whether it is a good window until seeing the players play (or not as is sometimes the case, particularly with January loans) for a few games.

Given NM plays a system that was unsuited to our existing players, it will be interesting to see how the new players fit into that. Most of these players are of an unknown quantity to me. I'd have liked some experience at centre half. The two new guys might be outstanding, though. We just don't know.

I'm not as worried with the loans as I have been in some previous seasons. I'd be more worried if we were a bit worse off in the league and in serious danger of getting drawn into a relegation battle. I don't think loans are great in that situation (unless there is an option to buy) as the loanees don't really have any skin in the game. It isn't their livelihoods on the line if the team is relegated. In our current situation, they fill a gap until we can reset in the summer.

[Fergus52]

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Overall I’m happy enough, but I’d hoped we’d have brought in no nonsense experienced centre half. Defence has been ropey for a while.

The 2 young guys might be quality, I’ve never seen them. But at the start of the window if you’d said we’d be signing 2 20 year old centre halfs to sort out our defensive problems…I’d have said thats not solving our defensive problems.

two more options at centre mid that have a bit of pace, energy and ball winning ability might though.

[Since452]

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I think Matty pretty much nails it. Personally I think this season is a write off other than hopes of a wee cup run. Loaners look decent quality so we may see some decent football along the way and then in the summer we’ll clear the decks of the old guard and the weak links. A new team from August means that we can only really judge Monty next December. We’ll defo know by then whether he knows what he’s doing. I like him so I hope he succeeds.

Strongly disagree. Montgomery has to show he can get results and performances sharpish especially, now he's had a transfer window. He's been backed now so there are no excuses. He needs to show big improvement. We cant wait almost a calendar year from now to judge him.

[MrRobot]

Good window for me. Would have liked a strong experienced left sided centre back to have really solidified the window but we have strengthened midfield and brought in Marcondes who looks an absolute player.

[john rossi]

I feel it could be quantity over quality would like to have seen two established centre backs as a priority but Montgomery has gone for inexperienced youngsters from Sunderland and the cherries. The one that stands out is Emiliano but unsure how the rest will impact our season.

[Callum_62]

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Strongly disagree. Montgomery has to show he can get results and performances sharpish especially, now he's had a transfer window. He's been backed now so there are no excuses. He needs to show big improvement. We cant wait almost a calendar year from now to judge him.

There's definitely holes in that theory

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[KeithTheHibby]

With the players brought in I’m expecting us to kick on and finish 4th. A total bonus would be a deep run in the Scottish.

[matty_f]

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With the players brought in I’m expecting us to kick on and finish 4th. A total bonus would be a deep run in the Scottish.

I think he's well backed and needs to show the improvement immediately - at least notable progress from where we've been this season. Clinging on to a top 6 place isn't going to cut it. Third is probably out of reach, but fourth is manageable and we should be going all guns blazing to get it.

[SickBoy32]

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I think he's well backed and needs to show the improvement immediately - at least notable progress from where we've been this season. Clinging on to a top 6 place isn't going to cut it. Third is probably out of reach, but fourth is manageable and we should be going all guns blazing to get it.

Well backed with 2 very inexperienced centre halves ? Not sure if that’s what the manager would’ve been looking for in that position.

We look to have brought in good forward options, but scoring goals hasn’t really been our primary issue.

[matty_f]

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Well backed with 2 very inexperienced centre halves ? Not sure if that’s what the manager would’ve been looking for in that position.

We look to have brought in good forward options, but scoring goals hasn’t really been our primary issue.

Nectar was one of his top targets, and he's been allowed to reshape the squad. It's all relative, but he was on record several times to say he hoped he could get four in but it was all dependant on finance. He's got 7 in and got a few out that he wanted to move on.

Not sure how much more backing they could have given him?

[Since452]

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There's definitely holes in that theory

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Why should he be given longer than LJ before we get to judge him?

[Greenbeard]

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No idea how we've done and the proof will be in the pudding.
What we usually do is hail how good a transfer window is simply on numbers. Most bemoaning the quality of the squad but last transfer window was lauded brilliant at the time, and the one before.

Each signing is a gamble and could go either way. Lots of exciting names in there but just have to see how we go.

On one hand, Miaolda, Marcondes, Amos have all got pedigree and already seen with Marcondes he has quality in abundance. Don't know a lot about Noriah-Welsh though we needed centre backs and the 2 young lads from their reels look talented, front footed ball playing centre backs. The young lad from Sunderland is young but exciting prospect.

On the other hand, we were ideally looking for players to hit the ground running and experienced centre back at least so probably missed that criteri though granted January is a difficult window. Lots of kids in there and short term loans - what will the attitudes and applications be like? Not much men's football between a lot of them and bringing in such a big number has other risks, will they all gel? Parterships on the park,? Dressing room/team spirit? What does it say to our own youth to bring in a raft of inexperienced kids on loan? Blaney must be ages with these centre halfs - can't get a look in but Southampton are sniffing.

Weighing it all up, not sure we had much other oprion than to roll the dice and take a gamble. I'm all for it and excited for the second half of the season. How it actually goes from here?, Piggy knows! Only results will dictate if it was a good window or not

Pretty much my current thoughts. Pre-window I felt we needed to invest all our available funds in a couple of really strong buys - experienced, confident, strong leaders for the defence and midfield - and that we had enough promising youngsters. Post-window I don't see where that strong leadership is coming from - not yet anyway.
I'd rather have had a couple of lobsters than a load of prawns, even if some of them might prove to be langoustines.

[Mikey_1875]

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I think Matty pretty much nails it. Personally I think this season is a write off other than hopes of a wee cup run. Loaners look decent quality so we may see some decent football along the way and then in the summer we’ll clear the decks of the old guard and the weak links. A new team from August means that we can only really judge Monty next December. We’ll defo know by then whether he knows what he’s doing. I like him so I hope he succeeds.

It depends on your expectations I suppose but I can’t understand how the season is a write off when there are European places still up for grabs (albeit third is gone). I also expect Monty to line us up to have a right good crack at it and will judge him at the end of the season based on that.

The window looks to have some exciting players on paper along with a throw enough **** at the wall and something will stick approach to CH. I’m optimistic for the rest of this season and even more excited for what lies beyond that in general. Monty has to prove he is the right man to take us on that journey in the meantime and I hope he does.

[SickBoy32]

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Nectar was one of his top targets, and he's been allowed to reshape the squad. It's all relative, but he was on record several times to say he hoped he could get four in but it was all dependant on finance. He's got 7 in and got a few out that he wanted to move on.

Not sure how much more backing they could have given him?

I guess time will tell with regards to the quality of the incoming players, and the effect they can have on the team.

Just wary of going for more managerial upheaval, if it transpires that these players aren’t up to much. For me that would suggest deeper issues than just the manager.

[B.H.F.C]

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Well backed with 2 very inexperienced centre halves ? Not sure if that’s what the manager would’ve been looking for in that position.

We look to have brought in good forward options, but scoring goals hasn’t really been our primary issue.

I don’t necessarily disagree on the centre halves and I’m not sure how it’ll work out. But, you need to remember the background of this manager. His success has been with a very young team, one of which we’ve just signed. I think that is exactly the player he wanted. Whether it works or not time will tell.

[Callum_62]

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Why should he be given longer than LJ before we get to judge him?

Nice edit from Colander

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[matty_f]

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I guess time will tell with regards to the quality of the incoming players, and the effect they can have on the team.

Just wary of going for more managerial upheaval, if it transpires that these players aren’t up to much. For me that would suggest deeper issues than just the manager.

I agree about the managerial upheaval, I'm not suggesting that. I do think, though, that more pressure comes when you take away some of the mitigation for the results so far (which is to say it's not his team, the players can't play how he wants etc) then more of the responsibility for the results sits on his shoulders.

I don't think that's unfair. I desperately want him to succeed, I thought he was a great pick for the job and so far it's not been as good as I hoped. I've been happy to give him the benefit of the doubt because of the squad injuries, availability, and in some areas, capability.

This is going to be mostly his team now, so it's not unreasonable to expect to see some improvement.

[Heisenberg]

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I think he's well backed and needs to show the improvement immediately - at least notable progress from where we've been this season. Clinging on to a top 6 place isn't going to cut it. Third is probably out of reach, but fourth is manageable and we should be going all guns blazing to get it.

Definitely agree with this. There needs to be an upturn in results now given the squad is a lot stronger and he’s brought in players to suit his style of play. Big game tomorrow.

[Tyler Durden]

I don't share the enthusiasm over signing the lad Nectar. However hopefully Monty has a plan - for example if he helps us play a higher line it might be worthwhile.

Same with Moriah-Welsh and Amos. I think they need to come in and make a difference asap - maybe the cumulative impact can solve some of the defensive issues.

For me, if he wants to keep his job then Monty needs to deliver

* Minimum 5th place finish
* Cup Semi final
* At least one derby win

[JimBHibees]

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I think he's well backed and needs to show the improvement immediately - at least notable progress from where we've been this season. Clinging on to a top 6 place isn't going to cut it. Third is probably out of reach, but fourth is manageable and we should be going all guns blazing to get it.

Think that is fair

[WestStandWillie]

If we're not top 4 come end of the season with that squad (newbies and returns from injury) then i'll be astounded.

Massive couple of months for NM to get things right. We mustn't drop points to deadwood like Livingston, St Johnstone, Ross County etc...

[Paul1642]

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I don't share the enthusiasm over signing the lad Nectar. However hopefully Monty has a plan - for example if he helps us play a higher line it might be worthwhile.

Same with Moriah-Welsh and Amos. I think they need to come in and make a difference asap - maybe the cumulative impact can solve some of the defensive issues.

For me, if he wants to keep his job then Monty needs to deliver

* Minimum 5th place finish
* Cup Semi final
* At least one derby win

This is generally fair however needs to be subjective.

5th place I agree with.

Cup semi I agree with but if we draw the old firm, especially away, next round (not to assume we are guaranteed to pass Inverness) then I don’t think that can be held against him.

Derby win I also agree with but if he managed the other two objectives and two Derby draws I’m certainly not going to be calling for his head.

[Since452]

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Nice edit from Colander

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[greenlex]

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Why should he be given longer than LJ before we get to judge him?

Why not?