442 Montysaurus?

[Onceinawhile]

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Fair enough Uw, glad I'm not the only one questioning it.

Is that something you've heard, or are you just postulating?

[Winston Ingram]

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All tactics and nothing to do with the players?

Players like Boyle and Youan for example have proven how effective they can be high and wide. Their numbers are great. When they play their we look like scoring goals

Our manager now has them playing 30 yards deeper. Their numbers have collapsed, they look nothing like the players they were, we don’t look like scoring goals.

How can this not be tactics?

[Hiber-nation]

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Have you ever considered he might be part of the problem?

I've no idea how good or bad a coach he is but he did give us arguably our best performance of the season at Aberdeen.

[CapitalGreen]

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Players like Boyle and Youan for example have proven how effective they can be high and wide. Their numbers are great. When they play their we look like scoring goals

Our manager now has them playing 30 yards deeper. Their numbers have collapsed, they look nothing like the players they were, we don’t look like scoring goals.

How can this not be tactics?

Our wingers played high and wide today but our central midfielders more often than not opted for sideways passes and floated balls into the box rather than trying to find our wide players with penetrative passes. When we changed personnel from Newell to Levitt we began getting our wide players into the game more resulting in a lot more chances being created.

[Keepthefaith]

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All tactics and nothing to do with the players?

I see you trying! You're absolutely right, today wasn't about formation at all. A couple of times we got in behind the defence through quick passing and looked dangerous. Problem was the team playing at a slow pace and I think presuming the win would just come. I'd argue a few saving themselves for weds.

Monty said as much in his interview. Do those slating him really think he wants his team to play like that? He's bringing in players with pace and an attacking mindset. How many dire games did we see under LJ who changed tactics every game?

It's application not formation that's the problem.

[B.H.F.C]

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Players like Boyle and Youan for example have proven how effective they can be high and wide. Their numbers are great. When they play their we look like scoring goals

Our manager now has them playing 30 yards deeper. Their numbers have collapsed, they look nothing like the players they were, we don’t look like scoring goals.

How can this not be tactics?

There are so many aspects of our game that are poor but are nothing to do with tactics.you can surely see that? Our inability to defend isn’t tactical, look at the goals lost against Hearts and Motherwell and the problems Forfar caused us today.

He’s not played Boyle deeper, he’s played him higher, and it’s been crap. He should not be playing in a front two. His struggles are from playing central, not deeper.

Have Youan’s numbers really collapsed? He’s scored six goals for Montgomery having scored nine in the whole of last season.

[allmodcons]

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This manager will get this manager sacked. He’s the one playing this dated formation. He’s the one playing our best attackers out of position. 20 games now. It’s clearly not working and he’s a live example of the definition of insanity.

This squad qualified for Europe last year. The players have proved themselves at this level when used correctly.

This idea that we should clear them all out to accommodate this delusional budget Guardiola is even more mental that his tactics.

Sadly, I agree with this.

Another poor manager producing mediocre performances, results and outcomes.

I’m not sure if he’s too arrogant or too stupid to see the weaknesses in his style of play but can tell you from what I’ve seen so far during his tenure that we are not progressing.

I can’t recall the last time I saw us dominate a game and more often than not watch in complete disbelief as we offer up opportunities to the opposition trying to pass our way out from the back with players who simply aren’t capable of taking the ball in tight areas and implementing the system the Manager enforces.

[raeburnhibs]

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I see you trying! You're absolutely right, today wasn't about formation at all. A couple of times we got in behind the defence through quick passing and looked dangerous. Problem was the team playing at a slow pace and I think presuming the win would just come. I'd argue a few saving themselves for weds.

Monty said as much in his interview. Do those slating him really think he wants his team to play like that? He's bringing in players with pace and an attacking mindset. How many dire games did we see under LJ who changed tactics every game?

It's application not formation that's the problem.

Can it not be application and formation and tactics and the Managers stubbornness and inexperience and a stale (good word used by another poster) squad, and an appalling signing policy and weak mentality.....

[RIP]

Been on this wonderful site for 16.5 years. Literally lost count at the times that I've read the joke about 'A complete clear-out'

Maybe the posters are the same fans I met in the chunkies at Station Park this afternoon. Two to a stall, mumbling incoherently on the other side of the door and completely out of touch with reality.

We have been so disorganised a club since Leeann, Graeme and Ross left that we find it almost impossible to recruit any player of quality. To date, we have brought in an unwanted reject and an injury-prone midfielder on trial. And as the desperation sets in towards the end of the month, the quality will get worse.

Clear them out and replace them with who exactly?
Better?
Sadly, given our track record, that seems to be a cokehead's pipedream.

What about a manager who puts players in their best positions and plays an attacking brand of football that we pay to see.

I'll settle for that. And I can't see that happening as long as this guy is running the ship.

[The Modfather]

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I think we need a centre back but other than that aye. I think I said our first team would, not our whole squad.

He’s not played anything other than 442 since he arrived so why would I have changed my mind?

It’s ridiculous to write off attackers like Boyle, Youan and Vente based on their current form. Boyle and Youan are asked to play as either a CF which they are both **** at or a wide midfielder, 30 yards deeper from where they have proven to effective.

Add to that, **** knows what Vente’s job is in this formation. Monty’s got him focused on rotating with our wide midfielders.

Our central midfield are given a ridiculous task every week. None of them fit in a 2. Levitt’s an excellent playmaker. Newell is a great all round 8 and Jeggo is and excellent DM. In a 2 if Jeggo’s out the team, Levitt isn’t alert enough to his defensive responsibilities and also doesn’t have the legs.

If Jeggo’s in their beside Newell, we’re defensively more solid but create even less.

As a 433, I think we’ve got a really good team with good back up options bar CB.

Marshall
Miller
Fish
Another CB
Obita
Jeggo
Newall
Levitt
Boyle
Vente
Youan

As for the squad, I think the likes of Jair, Doidge, Alf, McKirdy, JDH, Campbell, Wollocot, Cadden, Rocky, Hanlon, Megwa are good back up and would absolutely walk in to the other clubs in this league outside the uglies, sheep and Hearts.

Add to that, Kenneh is having a great season at Shrewsbury and Henderson is in Belgium an aw.

You definitely have always talked about the squad, which is why it stood out so much. If it’s just terminology and you’re actually talking about the starting 11, fair enough.

It’s a decent enough 11. Though one that is still fairly limited and inconsistent, especially for the vast amount it cost. For all we finished 5th last season we could just as easily have been bottom 6, watching and hoping for results to go our way on the final pre game split. As well as the streaks and losing to every team in the league.

That defence still concedes cheap goals (look at the Motherwell game and the number of headers missed as an example). Jeggo is limited, Newell slows us down and the sole creativity is on Levit who the jury is definitely still out on. We’ve had worse first 11s but none that cost this much to assemble. We also played 433 and most of that team in the first 3 games.

I just think we have a bottom 6 squad, propped up by a top 6 first 11. Which levels out at bottom 6 on a bad day, 5th or 6th on a good day. Which is where we are at the moment.

I don’t see much to build a team around for the medium to long term. Maybe Vente, but I’d not lose sleep at losing a single player in the squad in the same way I did with Doig, McGeough, McGinn and to a lesser extent Nisbet.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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There are so many aspects of our game that are poor but are nothing to do with tactics.you can surely see that? Our inability to defend isn’t tactical, look at the goals lost against Hearts and Motherwell and the problems Forfar caused us today.

He’s not played Boyle deeper, he’s played him higher, and it’s been crap. He should not be playing in a front two. His struggles are from playing central, not deeper.

Have Youan’s numbers really collapsed? He’s scored six goals for Montgomery having scored nine in the whole of last season.

I don’t think it can be argued that there’s issues with the players we have. Theres massive issues with the tactics and the players.

The big difference between the two though is that generally speaking, we’re stuck with the players. We shouldn’t be stuck with the tactics, but we appear to be because we’ve either got a ridiculously stubborn manager or an unbelievable one dimensional one. It’s a hell of a lot easier to ditch this nonsense style of play for something more suitable than it is to move on half a squad.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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I normally think you are a bit of a doom-monger (for the record, you are ) but I cant really disagree - we are totally boring to watch now.

I am being taken out for my birthday lunch/drinks on Wednesday and am swithering as to whether I should spoil it completely by going to watch our game with the currant buns afterward.

Even under that charlatan Johnson, I wouldnt think twice.

Thanks mate

I honestly can’t believe how boring things are just now. A crap team, with what appears so far to be a crap manager, playing the absolute crappest of football. It’s grim and nothing we’ve seen from NM so far makes me think it’ll change.

[Billy Whizz]

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Have you ever considered he might be part of the problem?

SB you’re a respected poster on here, but I struggle to see how DG is the problem
He isn’t involved in recruitment and doesn’t pick the team
Not sure how he is to blame

[B.H.F.C]

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I don’t think it can be argued that there’s issues with the players we have. Theres massive issues with the tactics and the players.

The big difference between the two though is that generally speaking, we’re stuck with the players. We shouldn’t be stuck with the tactics, but we appear to be because we’ve either got a ridiculously stubborn manager or an unbelievable one dimensional one. It’s a hell of a lot easier to ditch this nonsense style of play for something more suitable than it is to move on half a squad.

The way we play or set up, IMO, isn’t the issue. The fact that it’s the only way we play or set up is.

We rarely lose, so it’s not as if we’re getting battered week in week out. A bit flexibility and you’d be in a better position. I just think the focus on formation is OTT when I watch some of those players trying to play.

[CapitalGreen]

The football will continue to be boring regardless of who the manager is or what formation we play as long a Newell is our main playmaker. It was boring under Ross, it was boring under Maloney and it was boring for the most part under Johnson.

[wookie70]

I'm not sure how much difference the formation makes. If you play at a snails pace, lack intensity, play sideways and backwards until the opposition is back in shape and misplace every 3rd pass a few yards either way in a formation won't make any difference. For all that useless possession our two best moments, the goal and the creation of the penalty had nothing to do with possession and everything to do with getting the ball into the box. Forfar caused us all sorts of issues just by sticking the ball in the box and making sure they got in and around it.

[Winston Ingram]

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There are so many aspects of our game that are poor but are nothing to do with tactics.you can surely see that? Our inability to defend isn’t tactical, look at the goals lost against Hearts and Motherwell and the problems Forfar caused us today.

He’s not played Boyle deeper, he’s played him higher, and it’s been crap. He should not be playing in a front two. His struggles are from playing central, not deeper.

Have Youan’s numbers really collapsed? He’s scored six goals for Montgomery having scored nine in the whole of last season.

When he’s played Boyle high, it’s been as a centre forward. He’s an awful centre forward. He’s awful on the left. He’s an average wing back and an average right midfielder. He’s a brilliant right winger at this level.

We weren’t great at defending last season either, but we looked like scoring a goal.

Youan’s goal last week was his only goal in his last 10 games. He’s got 1 assist in that time. 2nd half of last season when moved to the left wing he got 8 goals and 1 assist.

[GreenCastle]

We made an error in summer not recruiting a better keeper to challenge Marshall and better defenders.

We continue to fail to improve the midfield. Even worse we have gone from a crap 3 midfield to playing 2 in midfield.

We have a few goal threats but they either don’t get good enough service or defend too deep or have pressure to score 2 as we struggle to defend against most teams.

It’s a mess - Hibs are very frustrating right now and can’t see any light at the end of the tunnel this season.

I do worry / don’t trust the people who are planning to fix it though. They seem to keep make the same mistakes we have seen for last 5 or so years.

[Scotty Leither]

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SB you’re a respected poster on here, but I struggle to see how DG is the problem
He isn’t involved in recruitment and doesn’t pick the team
Not sure how he is to blame

Davey Gray knows the club well enough to tell the manager that the fans won't wear this turgid crap we're watching for much longer, Billy.

So in essence if David isn't imparting that to him then maybe he is part of the problem...failing that we've got another manager in the vein of Heckingbottom and Johnson that thinks the fans are mugs and he's doing us a favour managing us.

[Brightside]

This thread is mental. Like top grade mental. We have a clean sheet and yet it’s a thread having a go at Hanlon Marshall and Stevenson amongst others. Someone make it make sense

[Chipper1875]

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Davey Gray knows the club well enough to tell the manager that the fans won't wear this turgid crap we're watching for much longer, Billy.

So in essence if David isn't imparting that to him then maybe he is part of the problem...failing that we've got another manager in the vein of Heckingbottom and Johnson that thinks the fans are mugs and he's doing us a favour managing us.

Not David Grays responsibility to tell his boss . Ben and Brian Mc should be getting him told

[B.H.F.C]

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When he’s played Boyle high, it’s been as a centre forward. He’s an awful centre forward. He’s awful on the left. He’s an average wing back and an average right midfielder. He’s a brilliant right winger at this level.

We weren’t great at defending last season either, but we looked like scoring a goal.

Youan’s goal last week was his only goal in his last 10 games. He’s got 1 assist in that time. 2nd half of last season when moved to the left wing he got 8 goals and 1 assist.

Youan scored goals playing as a centre forward in Nisbet’s absence last season as well. Not all of his goals were from out wide.

On Boyle, I agree he’s not a centre forward, awful
Is pushing it though. Can do a job but that’s it. But some of his best football was as a wing back (under Lennon) and on the right of a four (under Ross).he can play wide in a four no problem.

I know Youan hadn’t scored for a while (it was two last week but the way) but again that isn’t all because of tactics, there is more than a fair share of it on him.

[Winston Ingram]

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This thread is mental. Like top grade mental. We have a clean sheet and yet it’s a thread having a go at Hanlon Marshall and Stevenson amongst others. Someone make it make sense

We were playing Forfar Athletic from League 2.

[Scotty Leither]

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Not David Grays responsibility to tell his boss . Ben and Brian Mc should be getting him told

Somebody should be telling him, that's for sure. We were playing the 3rd but worst team in Scotland today based on current league placings, and we rode our luck and scraped a 1-0.

3rd worst in Scotland. Just let that sit there and think about it.

[Brightside]

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We were playing Forfar Athletic from League 2.

And? What was the score when we last played them.

[Hibby Bairn]

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This thread is mental. Like top grade mental. We have a clean sheet and yet it’s a thread having a go at Hanlon Marshall and Stevenson amongst others. Someone make it make sense

30 years ago we'd have had a quick pint in the pub and an exchange of views about Miller's hibs. Then off home for your tea and Blankety Blank and the Generation Game.

But with internet, social media and forums we can go on and on and on about it all night. Finding new slants to keep a thread going.

Better than Larry Grayson and Terry Wogan right enough.

[The Modfather]

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This thread is mental. Like top grade mental. We have a clean sheet and yet it’s a thread having a go at Hanlon Marshall and Stevenson amongst others. Someone make it make sense

Did you post this on the wrong thread, genuine question? I’ve not seen anyone have a go at Hanlon, Marshal & Stevenson.

[Real Emerald]

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I'm not sure how much difference the formation makes. If you play at a snails pace, lack intensity, play sideways and backwards until the opposition is back in shape and misplace every 3rd pass a few yards either way in a formation won't make any difference. For all that useless possession our two best moments, the goal and the creation of the penalty had nothing to do with possession and everything to do with getting the ball into the box. Forfar caused us all sorts of issues just by sticking the ball in the box and making sure they got in and around it.

The whole game strategy is awful. From playing players in roles they’re uncomfortable in, playing a formation that doesn’t suit the players we have, no flexibility in formation regardless who we’re playing or who we have available and the ridiculous playing out and passing it about aimlessly from the back will see him hounded out sooner than later. It’s not entertaining or effective.

[hibbymick]

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The football will continue to be boring regardless of who the manager is or what formation we play as long a Newell is our main playmaker. It was boring under Ross, it was boring under Maloney and it was boring for the most part under Johnson.

Agree 100%

[supermcginn]

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This thread is mental. Like top grade mental. We have a clean sheet and yet it’s a thread having a go at Hanlon Marshall and Stevenson amongst others. Someone make it make sense

It's almost as if a team from the fourth tier hit the post twice, had a shot cleared off the line and missed a one on one. But we are all stupid and blind in your eyes so we are probably all wrong.