Ashes 2023

***Mibbes Aye*** · 03-07-2023 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Hiberniankb

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Not a clean catch for me.

Me neither.

The Laws are clear, in his case 33.3 The act of making the catch starts at the first point of contact and continues until the fielder has complete control over the movement of the ball and his/her movement

The ball made contact with the ground before Starc had complete control of his movement, he was still sliding, therefore not a fair catch.

***Mibbes Aye*** · 03-07-2023 12:36 AM

So, end of the Second Test. Australia are 2-0 up and only once in Ashes history has a team come back form that deficit to win the series (which is ehat it would take fr England to regain the Ashes).

That team was Australia, and almost needless to say they had the benefit of a certain Don Bradman playing for them. The Don batted at number three and it is fair to say I don't expect Ollie Pope to emulate him - Bradman averaged in the nineties in that series!

England are a good side, no doubt, but they find themselves 0-2 down after two matches and that's not a pretty look. The top order are worth sticking with IMO, though Crawley hasn't been doing himself any favours. The middle order is surely untouchable - only HArry Brook is in any way vulneable and I genuinely dont think anyone is a better option. He only loses out if they give the gloves back to Ben Foakes and use Bairstow as a specialist batter and I don't see that happening yet.

In the bowling,Anderson has sadly looked every year of his age. If England persist with the short ball it will diminish him even further. His body simply can't cope. The good news comes in the shape of Josh Tongue, who has come in after a great debut and looked part of the furniture, taking on a great deal of the heavy lifting while hs at it. For England I think there are two choices, both easier to duck. First up, do they drop Anderson at Headingley (and it is almost impossible to see how they don't then bring him right back in for probably his swansong, on his homr ground at Old Trafford) and do they go back to Moeen, after an inauspicious start at Edgbaston - or blood a youngster.

For Australia, there is no denying the impact of losing Nathan Lyon, but one draw will see them retain the Ashes, one win (or restricting England to one win) will see them win the series and they will be keen to do that. It's a great opportunity for Murphy to stake a claim for 'the spinner after Lyon' slot. Given Austalia are likely to pursue the same selection approach wherever and whenever, bar occasionally a second spinner on the subcontinent, then it is a given role. The only real question is which two from Hazlewoood, Boland and Starc play. It's a little early to say yet - post-match niggles need checked out and the weather may influence the decision.

There's a reasonable chance of an England backlash at Headingley, they surely can't mae as many unforced errors as they have done so far. Nevertheless in a combined XI I would pick at least eight Aussies. Thats the difference and thats what England will have to overcome, Bazball or not.

***Aldo*** · 03-07-2023 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

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So, end of the Second Test. Australia are 2-0 up and only once in Ashes history has a team come back form that deficit to win the series (which is ehat it would take fr England to regain the Ashes).

That team was Australia, and almost needless to say they had the benefit of a certain Don Bradman playing for them. The Don batted at number three and it is fair to say I don't expect Ollie Pope to emulate him - Bradman averaged in the nineties in that series!

England are a good side, no doubt, but they find themselves 0-2 down after two matches and that's not a pretty look. The top order are worth sticking with IMO, though Crawley hasn't been doing himself any favours. The middle order is surely untouchable - only HArry Brook is in any way vulneable and I genuinely dont think anyone is a better option. He only loses out if they give the gloves back to Ben Foakes and use Bairstow as a specialist batter and I don't see that happening yet.

In the bowling,Anderson has sadly looked every year of his age. If England persist with the short ball it will diminish him even further. His body simply can't cope. The good news comes in the shape of Josh Tongue, who has come in after a great debut and looked part of the furniture, taking on a great deal of the heavy lifting while hs at it. For England I think there are two choices, both easier to duck. First up, do they drop Anderson at Headingley (and it is almost impossible to see how they don't then bring him right back in for probably his swansong, on his homr ground at Old Trafford) and do they go back to Moeen, after an inauspicious start at Edgbaston - or blood a youngster.

For Australia, there is no denying the impact of losing Nathan Lyon, but one draw will see them retain the Ashes, one win (or restricting England to one win) will see them win the series and they will be keen to do that. It's a great opportunity for Murphy to stake a claim for 'the spinner after Lyon' slot. Given Austalia are likely to pursue the same selection approach wherever and whenever, bar occasionally a second spinner on the subcontinent, then it is a given role. The only real question is which two from Hazlewoood, Boland and Starc play. It's a little early to say yet - post-match niggles need checked out and the weather may influence the decision.

There's a reasonable chance of an England backlash at Headingley, they surely can't mae as many unforced errors as they have done so far. Nevertheless in a combined XI I would pick at least eight Aussies. Thats the difference and thats what England will have to overcome, Bazball or not.

Brilliant summary.

Listening to the aftermath this morning, especially the Bairstow stumping Strauss and Morgan sum up the naivety of him.

Then you have those members in the ‘Long Room’ etc gentleman my arse. It’s went against them and within the rules yet a number took it too far!

Pat Cummings response to the question put to him about walking through that area was brilliant.

Series is gone for me

**JeMeSouviens** · 03-07-2023 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye

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So, end of the Second Test. Australia are 2-0 up and only once in Ashes history has a team come back form that deficit to win the series (which is ehat it would take fr England to regain the Ashes).

That team was Australia, and almost needless to say they had the benefit of a certain Don Bradman playing for them. The Don batted at number three and it is fair to say I don't expect Ollie Pope to emulate him - Bradman averaged in the nineties in that series!

England are a good side, no doubt, but they find themselves 0-2 down after two matches and that's not a pretty look. The top order are worth sticking with IMO, though Crawley hasn't been doing himself any favours. The middle order is surely untouchable - only HArry Brook is in any way vulneable and I genuinely dont think anyone is a better option. He only loses out if they give the gloves back to Ben Foakes and use Bairstow as a specialist batter and I don't see that happening yet.

In the bowling,Anderson has sadly looked every year of his age. If England persist with the short ball it will diminish him even further. His body simply can't cope. The good news comes in the shape of Josh Tongue, who has come in after a great debut and looked part of the furniture, taking on a great deal of the heavy lifting while hs at it. For England I think there are two choices, both easier to duck. First up, do they drop Anderson at Headingley (and it is almost impossible to see how they don't then bring him right back in for probably his swansong, on his homr ground at Old Trafford) and do they go back to Moeen, after an inauspicious start at Edgbaston - or blood a youngster.

For Australia, there is no denying the impact of losing Nathan Lyon, but one draw will see them retain the Ashes, one win (or restricting England to one win) will see them win the series and they will be keen to do that. It's a great opportunity for Murphy to stake a claim for 'the spinner after Lyon' slot. Given Austalia are likely to pursue the same selection approach wherever and whenever, bar occasionally a second spinner on the subcontinent, then it is a given role. The only real question is which two from Hazlewoood, Boland and Starc play. It's a little early to say yet - post-match niggles need checked out and the weather may influence the decision.

There's a reasonable chance of an England backlash at Headingley, they surely can't mae as many unforced errors as they have done so far. Nevertheless in a combined XI I would pick at least eight Aussies. Thats the difference and thats what England will have to overcome, Bazball or not.

Both tests could've gone either way, but the Aussies have shown their more rounded tactics to be superior, imo. Since they also have the disadvantage of playing away in alien conditions, I think it's pretty clear they have the edge in quality as well. 2 great tests though.

If England were going to rest Jimmy, they would've been better off doing it for Lord's probably, but easy to say in hindsight. I'd defo go Rehan Ahmed over Moeen. Think he's going to be a star.

**JeMeSouviens** · 03-07-2023 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by Aldo

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Brilliant summary.

Listening to the aftermath this morning, especially the Bairstow stumping Strauss and Morgan sum up the naivety of him.

Then you have those members in the ‘Long Room’ etc gentleman my arse. It’s went against them and within the rules yet a number took it too far!

Pat Cummings response to the question put to him about walking through that area was brilliant.

Series is gone for me

Agreed.

The sanctimonious codswallop from the MCC members and all is hilarious. It's "quick thinking" when it suits your team.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/vide...umps-balbirnie

***Aldo*** · 03-07-2023 02:56 PM

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

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Agreed.

The sanctimonious codswallop from the MCC members and all is hilarious. It's "quick thinking" when it suits your team.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/vide...umps-balbirnie

Totally agree.

If you were not aware Bairstow tried the same thing
To Labuschagne earlier in the series but didn’t have the
skill to pull it off. No mention from the bitter fans about the
Spirit of the game’ on that instance.

Got to laugh at them pointing the finger elsewhere when it’s
their own failings which cost them!

**JeMeSouviens** · 03-07-2023 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Aldo

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Totally agree.

If you were not aware Bairstow tried the same thing
To Labuschagne earlier in the series but didn’t have the
skill to pull it off. No mention from the bitter fans about the
Spirit of the game’ on that instance.

Got to laugh at them pointing the finger elsewhere when it’s
their own failings which cost them!

Haha, hadn't seen that.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/vide...on-labuschagne

***Aldo*** · 03-07-2023 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

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Haha, hadn't seen that.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/vide...on-labuschagne

Conveniently forgotten about by them and in particular Broad who was ripping the P following the dismissal of Bairstow.

Pleasing though

**DaveF** · 03-07-2023 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

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Haha, hadn't seen that.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/vide...on-labuschagne

Brilliant. Makes those bitter English tears seem even more ludicrous than before.

***Aldo*** · 03-07-2023 07:17 PM

The spirit of cricket my ****ing arse. Only when it suits and this is now the headline covering up the inadequacies of them and the team on the pitch.

**heretoday** · 04-07-2023 11:30 AM

The Ashes is the Old Firm of cricket. Quick to give and take offence.

***Mibbes Aye*** · 06-07-2023 12:04 AM

Must-win for England at Headingley then.

If there's one place England want to play Australia, while nursing a sense of grievance about being cheated' then it is this place.

The West Stand (the old Western Terrace) will be raucous, from the outset. When Ive been in the West, it has been in far less edgier games and it has still been a complete zoo by the start of the evening session!

England go in with with no Ollie Pope. Rather than bringing in Lawrence, ithey are boldly pushing Harry Brook up to three. Bairstow also moves up, to five. This allows Root to stay. Following Stokes at six it looks like Woakes, Moeen, Broad, Robinson and Wood - maybe some permutation with the last three. That certainlygives them lots of options bowling-wise, especially if Stokes is struggling.

Anderson and Tongue drop out, Tongue needs a rest and some rotation, Anderson has just not got into his groove snd it could be this ends up being his last series. Putting strategy aside, you would need a heart of stone not to pick Anderson for Old Trafford.

For Australia, the selection takes care of itself for 1 through 7. Murphy looks set to play as a direct replacement for Lyon. I believe he has never bowled a competitive ball on English soil - he was meant to get a few days away on this tour with a county side but for various reasons it hasn't happened. Headingley will be an experience for him! The other choice to be made is two from Starc, Hazlewood and Boland. My personal view is they will rest Hazlewood - he is not long back from injury and he has clocked up a decent number of overs already, no point risking him for the sake of it.

The weather should play its part - half-decent chance of showers in the morning, or at least the threat, giving way to sunshine for the rest of the day. That will suit the bowlers to begin with but then gives way to much more batting-friendly conditions, with Friday looking really good batting weather. Thundery showers throughout Saturday, so there will be disruption there, Sunday clear, with showers late on and Monday offering a good chance of more showers.

On that basis alone it starts to look like a draw. But I think there is a path to victory for England here. They do enjoy relative success against the Aussies in Leeds and the pitch is low-scoring by comparison to other venues. Going by the conditions at the toss, I can just about see England putting Australia into bat, taking advantage of the early conditions to really get into the top order, then using the strength in depth they have to conjure up wickets, with the aim of bowling them out in a couple of sessions. That gives them four sessions or thereabouts, in decent conditions, to pile on runs and build a healthy first innings lead, possibly looking to at least double Australia. Then its a case of taking advantage of the windows where play is permissible to work through the Australians for the second time.

That all rests on getting early wickets though. If Australia navigate through the overcast conditions first thing then we could be looking at a big total, and then three days of interruptions for them to take 20 wickets.

Obviously there are different drivers here - England need a win to have any chance of regaining the Ashes and must not lose or the Australians take the series. And they are fuelled with moral indignation, which could be a strength, could be their undoing. Australia meanwhile, know that even just one draw in the remaining three games means they keep the Ashes. As it stands I think whoever wins the coin toss may well put Australia into bat first.

So, prediction-wise, it will be a lot easier to call at lunch on day one, but at the moment I'm thinking a draw, just a little more likely than England winning.

***Mibbes Aye*** · 06-07-2023 09:22 AM

Fair bit of speculation that Mitch Marsh will come in for Cam Green this morning. We will know soon enough.

**HUTCHYHIBBY** · 06-07-2023 10:18 AM

Early wicket lost by the Aussies. Warner out to Broad as is the norm.

**HUTCHYHIBBY** · 06-07-2023 11:32 AM

61-3.

**JeMeSouviens** · 06-07-2023 11:53 AM

ffs, play a bloody wicket keeper!

**JeMeSouviens** · 06-07-2023 11:57 AM

Steve Smith goes - 85/4

**HUTCHYHIBBY** · 06-07-2023 12:51 PM

Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens

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ffs, play a bloody wicket keeper!

Another ridiculous dropped catch, not like Root, usually a safe pair of hands.

**HUTCHYHIBBY** · 06-07-2023 02:17 PM

Robinson off injured and The Aussies starting to spray the ball about.

**JeMeSouviens** · 06-07-2023 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

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Another ridiculous dropped catch, not like Root, usually a safe pair of hands.

... and Marsh certainly made the most of his life.

**HUTCHYHIBBY** · 06-07-2023 03:11 PM

And another one from Root.

**HUTCHYHIBBY** · 06-07-2023 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

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And another one from Root.

He takes that one though! 😊

**JeMeSouviens** · 06-07-2023 03:25 PM

Mark Wood is firing. Consistently >90mph.

Aussies would be in serious trouble without Marsh's century.

***Mibbes Aye*** · 06-07-2023 11:59 PM

Yet another great day's cricket in the series that just keeps giving.

England unsurprisingly chose to bowl, after winning the toss and by lunch would be entitled to consider things were looking very good. But if the morning belonged to England, the afternoon belonged to Australia and in particular Mitchell Marsh. Marsh, the almost incidental Test cricketer nowadays,was clearly in the squad as back-up for Cam Green. That situation could well be reversed if Marsh proceeds to pick up wickets.

Marsh, ably supported by Head, sent the run rate up massively and pulled Australia up to a respectable position before Woakes managed to dismiss them in and break open the tail. Mark Wood was then able to mop up the remainder with his blistering pace and take his thirs Test five-for. I'm chuffed for Mark Wood, he comes across as a really decent bloke and he has had a horrific time with injuries in his career.

So, with Australia all out for 263, England must have been eyeing up seeing out the rest of the day and looking forward to what should be good batting conditions tomorrow. The pitch still had something to offer though and England lost their top three cheaply. There has to be some reflection on why Brook was forced to play at three, just to allow Root to stay at four. Regardless, I think Australia need early wickets and set themselves up for a quick add-on of runs. With a risk of thunder and showers on Saturday and Monday, it really will be a case of making runs while the sun shines. At the moment that means England have the thinnest of thin edges.

**HUTCHYHIBBY** · 07-07-2023 10:02 AM

Root out in the first over, series finished methinks.

**JeMeSouviens** · 07-07-2023 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by HUTCHYHIBBY

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Root out in the first over, series finished methinks.

Looks like it barring a Stokes and/or Bairstow miracle. Aussies taking their chances.

**HUTCHYHIBBY** · 07-07-2023 10:28 AM

Bairstow gone now, catches win matches.

***weecounty hibby*** · 07-07-2023 11:18 AM

Wonder how another pumping will be spun as not being in the spirit of cricket!! No1 team in the world, world test champions, perennial Ashes winners both in Australia and England. That bs around spirit of the game is why England will continue to be 2nd best to the Australians.