The vibrancy of summer football.

[tonyrougier123]

I say this a lot,but the Celtic game the other night must go some way to indicating how Scottish football could benefit from shifting from turgid stop start winter months to fairer months.

Easter road looked glorious the other night,pitch was fantastic football was better and obviously the result helped the mood and atmosphere.

But that aside,surely we could sell the game better in the summer and possibly even breed better talented footballers. Even for a fix in winter a cup could be played.
It’s been a while since I’ve felt good about the league in winter,it’s became very stop start with international breaks,and if you’re hoofed out the league cup even more breaks.
Surely there must be more support for this in the modern game?

[Stubbsy90+2]

Scottish teams generally do crap in Europe so I wonder if we’d do better with summer leagues? If we were in full flow we might stand more of a chance of getting to the groups of competitions etc.

[LaMotta]

Understand the question after the other night, but Summer football is a terrible idea.

Do crowds get bigger? No real evidence of that.

Will we get a better TV deal and increased demand for watching games? No. Look at the League of Ireland.

Do we want our league to compete with a World Cup or euros every two years?

Do we want to be out of sync with other leagues?

The winter in this country is gloomy enough without taking football away!

[tonyrougier123]

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Scottish teams generally do crap in Europe so I wonder if we’d do better with summer leagues? If we were in full flow we might stand more of a chance of getting to the groups of competitions etc.

Another good example aye. We would surely benefit from an earlier start in qualifying stages,enhancing the co efficient.

[Hillsidehibby]

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Understand the question after the other night, but Summer football is a terrible idea.

Do crowds get bigger? No real evidence of that.

Will we get a better TV deal and increased demand for watching games? No. Look at the League of Ireland.

Do we want our league to compete with a World Cup or euros every two years?

Do we want to be out of sync with other leagues?

The winter in this country is gloomy enough without taking football away!

Absolutely

[G15 Hibs]

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The winter in this country is gloomy enough without taking football away!

This is a key point for me, from a wholly personal point of view. There are plenty of decent arguments in favour of summer football, and standing in a ground on a lovely sunny night is a thing of beauty. However, winter is a real dark and dismal slog for me and plenty of others, taking away those little chinks of light and social contact that going to the football gives would make it unbearable.

[CapitalGreen]

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Understand the question after the other night, but Summer football is a terrible idea.

Do crowds get bigger? No real evidence of that.

Will we get a better TV deal and increased demand for watching games? No. Look at the League of Ireland.

Do we want our league to compete with a World Cup or euros every two years?

Do we want to be out of sync with other leagues?

The winter in this country is gloomy enough without taking football away!

What’s the relevance of the league of Ireland? A different country where football is the 4th most popular sport?

[Stubbsy90+2]

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Understand the question after the other night, but Summer football is a terrible idea.

Do crowds get bigger? No real evidence of that.

Will we get a better TV deal and increased demand for watching games? No. Look at the League of Ireland.

Do we want our league to compete with a World Cup or euros every two years?

Do we want to be out of sync with other leagues?

The winter in this country is gloomy enough without taking football away!

What about Scandinavian countries that get better tv deals than us? For every LOI there’s another league with summer football that works better than our winter season.

There’s be a lot to weigh up but it’s worth considering imo.

[tonyrougier123]

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Absolutely

You’d still have European games and English and foreign football. The Scandinavian leagues seem to manage well enough. You could add in a winter cup,but close all football domestically say December January just ideas.
As someone else said a lot of pros and cons. But entirely workable and always worth trying something new.
Never thought I’d see a winter World Cup til it happened,anything is possible.
It could be done exciting and affordable. December we cram so many fixtures in I find it hard even with a season ticket to get to games in the run up to Christmas. Wouldn’t need to worry about that.
I don’t think there’d be a football blackout like the long summer months building up to the start. Maybe it’s a form thing recently as well,but beginning of season is superb, overloaded in December,stop start in January February mixture of reasons for that. Then end of the season is a wee bit more enjoyable again as we push for Europe or avoid bottom six and the pitches and football improves slightly.

[hibsforeurope]

I don't think we need to fully move to summer football at the top level, kids sport is a different story.

But we really need to get away for bunching so many games into December and the cold months. If we can't play Saturday Tuesday/Wednesday early season we should extend the winter break and play more games in April and May when the weather is (usually) better.

To play a quarter of the season in 1 of the coldest months is crazy.

[LaMotta]

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What’s the relevance of the league of Ireland? A different country where football is the 4th most popular sport?

Because there is a notion that moving Scottish football to summertime would suddenly see better TV deals and a surge in interest in people from elsewhere watching games as we wouldnt be competing with English leagues. The LOI tried it and it hasn't made a difference.

[neil7908]

I'm all for summer football. It would undoubtedly help us in Europe.

And Why anyone thinks sitting outside for 2 hours in Scotland through December, January and February is a good idea is beyond me!

[LaMotta]

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What about Scandinavian countries that get better tv deals than us? For every LOI there’s another league with summer football that works better than our winter season.

There’s be a lot to weigh up but it’s worth considering imo.

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I'm all for summer football. It would undoubtedly help us in Europe.

And Why anyone thinks sitting outside for 2 hours in Scotland through December, January and February is a good idea is beyond me!

The scandanavian deal is better but I dont think we can say its because they play in the summer.

Why does scandanavian summer football work better than Scottish football?

Why would it would help us in Europe? Scotland are 9th in the Uefa club rankings right now, way ahead of Norway and Sweden. When was the last time either of those leagues had a team in a European final?

[Steven79]

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The scandanavian deal is better but I dont think we can say its because they play in the summer.

Why does scandanavian summer football work better than Scottish football?

Why would it would help us in Europe? Scotland are 9th in the Uefa club rankings right now, way ahead of Norway and Sweden. When was the last time either of those leagues had a team in a European final?

The last time a Swedish tean played in a European final is probably against Dundee United in 1987.

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[Newry Hibs]

This year the League of Ireland runs from 17 February – 3 November 2023.

If that is a typical year, then the players would get a month off - basically November. Pre season friendlies would need to start mid to late January(?) - who would we play?

[LaMotta]

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The last time a Swedish tean played in a European final is probably against Dundee United in 1987.

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Think you are right mate.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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The scandanavian deal is better but I dont think we can say its because they play in the summer.

Why does scandanavian summer football work better than Scottish football?

Why would it would help us in Europe? Scotland are 9th in the Uefa club rankings right now, way ahead of Norway and Sweden. When was the last time either of those leagues had a team in a European final?

Surely by the same token then we can’t say the LOI get a worse tv deal because it’s in the summer?

It would help us in Europe because nobody outside the Old Firm ever qualifies for tournament propers unless it’s guaranteed.

If we could have someone other than the OF getting through qualification then that would be a benefit to our game. Having a head start on the majority of opponents would help with that.

[bingo70]

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Understand the question after the other night, but Summer football is a terrible idea.

Do crowds get bigger? No real evidence of that.

Will we get a better TV deal and increased demand for watching games? No. Look at the League of Ireland.

Do we want our league to compete with a World Cup or euros every two years?

Do we want to be out of sync with other leagues?

The winter in this country is gloomy enough without taking football away!

In terms of crowds getting bigger, I’m not sure what evidence could be provided when it’s never been tried?

Not a direct comparison but is there not potential comparables with rugby league moving to a summer league so they didn’t have to compete with union? I’m really no expert on that subject so I may be miles off with the comparison but my perception was it was a sport that wasn’t really thriving, once they moved to the summer the popularity of it took off, helped by the fact there’s very little other sport on at that time.

I think we face a similar challenge competing with an English football.

I’d be all for summer football, I hate being cold and would be quite happy to hibernate for the winter, only leaving the house when absolutely necessary. Much nicer experience for taking kids to a game too if the sun is shining and it’s warm.

[LaMotta]

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This year the League of Ireland runs from 17 February – 3 November 2023.

If that is a typical year, then the players would get a month off - basically November. Pre season friendlies would need to start mid to late January(?) - who would we play?

Another good point. "Summer" football still sees us playing in colder darker months. Some our worst weather in recent years has also taken place in March - eg. 2018's Beast from the East. December was far better weather that season.

[Lago]

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I say this a lot,but the Celtic game the other night must go some way to indicating how Scottish football could benefit from shifting from turgid stop start winter months to fairer months.

Easter road looked glorious the other night,pitch was fantastic football was better and obviously the result helped the mood and atmosphere.

But that aside,surely we could sell the game better in the summer and possibly even breed better talented footballers. Even for a fix in winter a cup could be played.
It’s been a while since I’ve felt good about the league in winter,it’s became very stop start with international breaks,and if you’re hoofed out the league cup even more breaks.
Surely there must be more support for this in the modern game?

Totally agree with you, have said this for years.

[LaMotta]

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Surely by the same token then we can’t say the LOI get a worse tv deal because it’s in the summer?

It would help us in Europe because nobody outside the Old Firm ever qualifies for tournament propers unless it’s guaranteed.

If we could have someone other than the OF getting through qualification then that would be a benefit to our game. Having a head start on the majority of opponents would help with that.

Im not saying LOI deal is worse because of summer, im saying they didnt see any benefits on that side from the change. So it doesn't make it worth the change on that front.

Your last 2 paras I would agree it could be worth changing if there was any guarantee of that, but I doubt it would make much difference. I can't see us ever finding out because the change will never happen, the arguments overall just dont stack up.

[CapitalGreen]

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Another good point. "Summer" football still sees us playing in colder darker months. Some our worst weather in recent years has also taken place in March - eg. 2018's Beast from the East. December was far better weather that season.

Either way we’d be playing in March so not sure that’s a negative for summer football. We’d have a lot more days of good weather with summer football than we currently do, that’s obvious.

[LaMotta]

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In terms of crowds getting bigger, I’m not sure what evidence could be provided when it’s never been tried?

Not a direct comparison but is there not potential comparables with rugby league moving to a summer league so they didn’t have to compete with union? I’m really no expert on that subject so I may be miles off with the comparison but my perception was it was a sport that wasn’t really thriving, once they moved to the summer the popularity of it took off, helped by the fact there’s very little other sport on at that time.

I think we face a similar challenge competing with an English football.

I’d be all for summer football, I hate being cold and would be quite happy to hibernate for the winter, only leaving the house when absolutely necessary. Much nicer experience for taking kids to a game too if the sun is shining and it’s warm.

Interesting question on the crowds, but summer football does get played every year already in August, and May is almost summer. Yet if you look at our crowds over the last 10 seasons, most years our biggest attendance has been in December, January or February. If there is a big important game, people will attend whatever the weather.

I cant see any way in which playing in June or July would drastically enhance crowds, particularly with people going off on holiday etc.

[nonshinyfinish]

I might be wrong, but aren't the Scandinavian tv deals worth more because they allow more games to be televised? IIRC Denmark's tv deal was discussed a while ago and it was more like the Spanish league where the games are spread out so that most/all of them can be televised without clashing.

[G15 Hibs]

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Another good point. "Summer" football still sees us playing in colder darker months. Some our worst weather in recent years has also taken place in March - eg. 2018's Beast from the East. December was far better weather that season.

Freak weather, I know, and I'm not using it as an argument either way, but some of the worst weather I've ever seen football played in at Easter Road was at those Intertoto Cup games in the mid 00s (2004 and 2006?). Absolute monsoons at both, and I dare say if they'd been domestic games they'd have been called off and only went ahead because the away team had travelled. Both played on the first Saturday of July.

[LaMotta]

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Either way we’d be playing in March so not sure that’s a negative for summer football. We’d have a lot more days of good weather with summer football than we currently do, that’s obvious.

Yeh but it's not a positive for it.

You say its obvious weather would be better in summer, but actually over the last 30 years in Edinburgh, July and August are 2nd and 3rd for most amount of rainfall, just behind October.

Id far rather be wrapped up warm on a dry cold day than soaking wet in a slightly warmer July or August. The notion that summer football would see us often end up with a full Easter Road in our shorts and t shirt watching glorious football is a fantasy.

[LaMotta]

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I might be wrong, but aren't the Scandinavian tv deals worth more because they allow more games to be televised? IIRC Denmark's tv deal was discussed a while ago and it was more like the Spanish league where the games are spread out so that most/all of them can be televised without clashing.

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Freak weather, I know, and I'm not using it as an argument either way, but some of the worst weather I've ever seen football played in at Easter Road was at those Intertoto Cup games in the mid 00s (2004 and 2006?). Absolute monsoons at both, and I dare say if they'd been domestic games they'd have been called off and only went ahead because the away team had travelled. Both played on the first Saturday of July.

[Since452]

Would also increase our chances of competing in Europe

[CapitalGreen]

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Yeh but it's not a positive for it.

You say its obvious weather would be better in summer, but actually over the last 30 years in Edinburgh, July and August are 2nd and 3rd for most amount of rainfall, just behind October.

Id far rather be wrapped up warm on a dry cold day than soaking wet in a slightly warmer July or August. The notion that summer football would see us often end up with a full Easter Road in our shorts and t shirt watching glorious football is a fantasy.

A higher amount of rainfall doesn’t necessarily mean a higher number of rainy days. There is slightly more rainfall in summer months by volume but it falls on fewer days therefore the chances of rain falling on a summer day are less than in the winter.

[LaMotta]

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A higher amount of rainfall doesn’t necessarily mean a higher number of rainy days. There is slightly more rainfall in summer months by volume but it falls on fewer days therefore the chances of rain falling on a summer day are less than in the winter.

So, if it falls on a football day, we are getting absolutely soaked then