Sky's analysis of weekend referee decisions

[PatHead]

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VAR has to be changed to look at second yellow cards, otherwise you're as well hoping for a straight red so you can appeal it.

You would have to look at all bookings. What if they shouldn't have been booked in the first place but the second was a fair cop?

[matty_f]

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You would have to look at all bookings. What if they shouldn't have been booked in the first place but the second was a fair cop?

Player knows they're on a booking already though, so it's just tough luck. First bookings are pretty inconsequential unless you get booked again.

[hibsbollah]

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VAR what is it good for? Absolutely nothing, say it again

Kudos for that one.

[JimBHibees]

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That’s what LJ said but I don’t get it.

Celtic player is clearly pulling Hanlon back to stop him running. You’re not allowed to do that and is quite clearly a foul? That’s not one you see 10 times every game and isn’t the same as two strong players wrestling each other that you do see every corner.

Feels to me our penalty is just getting lumped in with the other decisions to try and provide a bit balance as otherwise it would just look like we were moaning about a biased ref rather than an incompetent one which is never likely to get much traction, would just look like we were whinging.

Agree strange we have gone done that route though as you say likely trying not to be seen as serial moaners. Starfelt has loads of time to let go Hanlons shirt but chooses not to do so a clear penalty to me. Most embarrassing is that McLean is looking straight at it and sees nothing wrong. Compare with the Celtic one where don't think he has any view of it and gives immediately. He was desperate to even up. No idea why that wasn't reviewed relentlessly as it was very very soft and imo not a clear foul.

[McGruber]

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What was his rationale for the second booking being correct?

Same mistaken rationale as the others that try to justify it and mention in same breath as Vassell at Easter Road. High feet and kicked him in the head. Even Johnson with the 5 foot 2 chat.

1 it was more like 3 foot and waist height.

2 He doesn't kick him in the head, Carter Vickers heads him in the foot. What I mean is Vassell is challenging toward the player. Youan is playing the ball and Vickers dives over him into his path (fouling him to do so).
By Gallacher's definition, any head kick is a red - start the game and have folk dive bomb headers at players kicking the ball off the deck, just get your head along the deck.
Total nonesense trying to justify it.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Same mistaken rationale as the others that try to justify it and mention in same breath as Vassell at Easter Road. High feet and kicked him in the head. Even Johnson with the 5 foot 2 chat.

1 it was more like 3 foot and waist height.

2 He doesn't kick him in the head, Carter Vickers heads him in the foot. What I mean is Vassell is challenging toward the player. Youan is playing the ball and Vickers dives over him into his path (fouling him to do so).
By Gallacher's definition, any head kick is a red - start the game and have folk dive bomb headers at players kicking the ball off the deck, just get your head along the deck.
Total nonesense trying to justify it.

To be fair there were a good few posters on here saying any kick to the head is a red card and the player doing the kicking is the one that has to anticipate a challenge coming in after the Vassel one the other week. That doesn’t explain why Youhan only got a yellow though.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Agree strange we have gone done that route though as you say likely trying not to be seen as serial moaners. Starfelt has loads of time to let go Hanlons shirt but chooses not to do so a clear penalty to me. Most embarrassing is that McLean is looking straight at it and sees nothing wrong. Compare with the Celtic one where don't think he has any view of it and gives immediately. He was desperate to even up. No idea why that wasn't reviewed relentlessly as it was very very soft and imo not a clear foul.

Ref guessed at that one and I assume VAR went for the “attacking player was clever” option. Bit similar to Porteous vs Aberdeen.

[matty_f]

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Same mistaken rationale as the others that try to justify it and mention in same breath as Vassell at Easter Road. High feet and kicked him in the head. Even Johnson with the 5 foot 2 chat.

1 it was more like 3 foot and waist height.

2 He doesn't kick him in the head, Carter Vickers heads him in the foot. What I mean is Vassell is challenging toward the player. Youan is playing the ball and Vickers dives over him into his path (fouling him to do so).
By Gallacher's definition, any head kick is a red - start the game and have folk dive bomb headers at players kicking the ball off the deck, just get your head along the deck.
Total nonesense trying to justify it.

That's interesting because I didn't (and don't) think it was a booking either, I thought the free kick should have gone our way or, if the ref had played on as her initially did, nobody would have been looking for anything really either way and it wouldn't have been talked about at all.

[Rumble de Thump]

We need referees who understand the rules and are willing and able to apply them. Until that happens, the rules are irrelevant. In any matches involving Celtic and Sevco the officials will continue to make them up as they go along. It won't change because the football authorities don't want it to change.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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To be fair there were a good few posters on here saying any kick to the head is a red card and the player doing the kicking is the one that has to anticipate a challenge coming in after the Vassel one the other week. That doesn’t explain why Youhan only got a yellow though.

No, there wasn’t. The posts all had reasons given that explained why the Vassel one was a red, not simply that it was a red because it was a kick to the head.

[Nutmegged]

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Andy Walker on SSN this morning. Says Youan's sending off was a joke, doesn't even think the first was a yellow. Second one he says Youan was fouled.

Doesn't think either of Celtic's were penalties and slates the ref. All good Andy!

But wait for it.........doesn't think Hibs penalty was a pen either To be fair overall his point is that the bar is set so low for any foul and any contact in the box is being penalised. Also says that Scottish refs apply the rules differently from those down south - totally agree.

Interested to hear what Dermot Gallagher says later....

Same Andy Walker who encourages players to take a dive and 'give the ref a decision to make' anytime there's the slightest contact, a mantra he's been using since Scotsport days, next time he's on commentary he'll be contradicting himself again.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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No, there wasn’t. The posts all had reasons given that explained why the Vassel one was a red, not simply that it was a red because it was a kick to the head.

Aye there was mate - in fact you said

“it really is bizarre that people seem to think being kicked in the head isn’t dangerous which is really what this boils down to”

That was the post - no missing context or selection of words.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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Aye there was mate - in fact you said

“it really is bizarre that people seem to think being kicked in the head isn’t dangerous which is really what this boils down to”

That was the post - no missing context or selection of words.

And what was that in response to? People suggesting Vassels kick wasn’t dangerous? It was also after numerous posts from myself as to why his actions were dangerous.

So aye.. no missing context? You’d be correct in saying that… if it wasn’t for the fact you’d deliberately omitted the whole discussion around why his kick was dangerous that had been previously discussed on that very thread.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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And what was that in response to? People suggesting Vassels kick wasn’t dangerous? It was also after numerous posts from myself as to why his actions were dangerous.

So aye.. no missing context? Good one.

It was in response to someone asking if a boot to the head when the opponent goes to header the ball is dangerous.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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It was in response to someone asking if a boot to the head when the opponent goes to header the ball is dangerous.

And it is. As I’ve said numerous times in response to Youan. The difference in the Vassel one is that he caused the danger by raising his foot to head height. Youan didn’t cause that danger.

Getting kicked in the head is always dangerous, whether that’s in football or on the street, whether it’s at ankle height or head height. The difference in these two situations is that one player was the sole cause of the danger, the other wasn’t.

There was never any suggestion that any kick to the head is a straight red card as you suggested. The context of the Vassel thread makes that pretty clear imo.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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And it is. As I’ve said numerous times in response to Youan. The difference in the Vassel one is that he caused the danger by raising his foot to head height. Youan didn’t cause that danger.

Getting kicked in the head is always dangerous, whether that’s in football or on the street, whether it’s at ankle height or head height.

He kicked him in the head and didn’t take the appropriate measures to reduce the risk.

Maybe this law isn’t as clear cut after all.

Edit - your last sentence was added after I posted. There definitely was that inference.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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He kicked him in the head and didn’t take the appropriate measures to reduce the risk.

Maybe this law isn’t as clear cut after all.

Youan is entitled to play the ball at that height. Vassel wasn’t entitled to play the ball at the height he did.

It’s perfectly clear cut.

Also, there was no inference that any kick to the head was a red. That much is pretty clear but doesn’t suit your agenda.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Youan is entitled to play the ball. Vassel wasn’t.

It’s perfectly clear cut.

Yeah - sometimes a kick is a red sometimes it isn’t.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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Yeah - sometimes a kick is a red sometimes it isn’t.

See, you’re getting it now.

[blackpoolhibs]

So its ok to kick someone in the head sometimes.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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See, you’re getting it now.

Which isn’t what was discussed when I suggested it in the Vassel thread. I thought it was only my kids that tried to gaslight me.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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Which isn’t what was discussed when I suggested it in the Vassel thread. I thought it was only my kids that tried to gaslight me.

The thread where people explained numerous times why Vassels actions specifically were dangerous? Yeah, it’s safe to say it was discussed.

[Steve-O]

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So its ok to kick someone in the head sometimes.

Are you suggesting a player could dive head first at someone’s feet as they kick the ball, get kicked in the head, and the kicker would have to be sent off?

[Danderhall Hibs]

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The thread where people explained numerous times why Vassels actions specifically were dangerous? Yeah, it’s safe to say it was discussed.

It was definitely discussed but seems depending on which team that do it the rules can be interpreted differently. Fair enough - at least that’s now been made clear by you.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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Are you suggesting a player could dive head first at someone’s feet as they kick the ball, get kicked in the head, and the kicker would have to be sent off?

Possibly a yellow like on Saturday? Think Stunnsy and others have said the “kicker” had to anticipate.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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It was definitely discussed but seems depending on which team that do it the rules can be interpreted differently. Fair enough - at least that’s now been made clear by you.

You’re tying yourself in knots here. A few minutes ago it wasn’t discussed, now you’re saying it was definitely discussed.

Your attempts to find something that isn’t there in terms of claiming people declared that any kick to the head is a red are becoming a bit silly now, I’ll leave you to it.

[scm70nyd1973]

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Of course ours is a penalty, ffs he's grabbed his shirt and stopped him running? Is shirt pulling not a foul anymore?

I suppose this is not a foul either.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cfvd...nnel=ManuMarko

Nope it’s definitely not - did you see how the player left his oversized jersey hanging out of his shorts just hoping it would get pulled - flagrant attempt to lull a player into catching his jersey on an opponent’s hand as he passed him by - cheating, pure and simple - at least that is how most VAR officials seem to view it when it’s a non old firm situation 🤭

[Danderhall Hibs]

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You’re tying yourself in knots here. A few minutes ago it wasn’t discussed, now you’re saying it was definitely discussed.

Your attempts to find something that isn’t there in terms of claiming people declared that any kick to the head is a red are becoming a bit silly now, I’ll leave you to it.

You’re going to have to. You’ve consumed things so much you’ve tied everyone up in knots I think.

[Hibbyradge]

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Possibly a yellow like on Saturday? Think Stunnsy and others have said the “kicker” had to anticipate.

If a player throws himself to head a ball at someone's feet and gets kicked, it's the diving player who should be punished for dangerous play, not the kicker.

Also, contact is irrelevant when considering dangerous or reckless play although I'm sure referees often wrongly take it into consideration.

My view is that Youan was perfectly entitled to attempt to kick the ball at the height it was. Had he not connected with the Celtic player's head despite his attempt to head it, would Youan still have been booked? If the answer to that is no, then it wasn't dangerous play, even though he did actually catch him.

[Mon Dieu4]

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If a player throws himself to head a ball at someone's feet and gets kicked, it's the diving player who should be punished for dangerous play, not the kicker.

Also, contact is irrelevant when considering dangerous or reckless play although I'm sure referees often wrongly take it into consideration.

My view is that Youan was perfectly entitled to attempt to kick the ball at the height it was. Had he not connected with the Celtic player's head despite his attempt to head it, would Youan still have been booked? If the answer to that is no, then it wasn't dangerous play, even though he did actually catch him.

You are spot on, I'd go as far as to say if Youan never got booked and a free kick just went either way then no one would even be mentioning this at all, it's just one of those things that can happen during a game, the ref highlighted it by Youan getting a second yellow and being sent off for it