We need to talk about the direction of our club

[green day]

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You have to forget last season though. It’s gone. If LJ can’t get a few wins out the rest of round ones fixtures then we can revisit. If Youan had tucked away his chances were talking very differently.

We can't really forget last season as the starting line up was mostly the team that were utter garbage then

We had a midfield yesterday that we all know produces nothing.

We are in relegation form, we can't play St Johnstone every week.

[Hibernian Verse]

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We can't really forget last season as the starting line up was mostly the team that were utter garbage then

We had a midfield yesterday that we all know produces nothing.

We are in relegation form, we can't play St Johnstone every week.

By definition we are not in relegation form. Form is 5 games, we are 8th with 4 teams below us.

Anyway I don’t have the energy. I’m away to enjoy the rest of my weekend.

[GreenCastle]

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That’s the huge worry. Sooner he goes, the better - my stance won’t change on my opinion of RG so I suppose I’m now lumped into the ‘usual posters circling’ bracket.

Ron is a good guy and cares.

As annoyed as I am I don’t have an issue with him.

He just doesn’t have the correct people making decisions below him.

If he made changes and actually got folk who knew what they were doing it would make a huge difference.

He is trusting folk to do their job and they are under performing.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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Ron is a good guy and cares.

As annoyed as I am I don’t have an issue with him.

He just doesn’t have the correct people making decisions below him.

If he made changes and actually got folk who knew what they were doing it would make a huge difference.

He is trusting folk to do their job and they are under performing.

Aye but he’s trusting his son to do a job that he’s absolutely no reason to be in. He’s at fault here, massively imo.

[GreenCastle]

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Aye but he’s trusting his son to do a job that he’s absolutely no reason to be in. He’s at fault here, massively imo.

Blind loyalty I will give you that.

I just think it’s a bit extreme for fans to say Ron is the issue when he’s trusted people to deliver and they hasn’t.

Ron like Lee are responsible yes in their departments but don’t think it’s as simple as leave and things will improve.

[Dmas]

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Aye but he’s trusting his son to do a job that he’s absolutely no reason to be in. He’s at fault here, massively imo.

His son is rubber stamping cheques what qualifications do you need for that?

[Stubbsy90+2]

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His son is rubber stamping cheques what qualifications do you need for that?

Sorry but I don’t believe for a second the crap RG tells us about the job his son is doing.

He’s in a position of significant influence.

[Dmas]

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Sorry but I don’t believe for a second the crap RG tells us about the job his son is doing.

He’s in a position of significant influence.

He’s heading up a team of people who look at a signing targets availability, affordability and if the personal terms are workable for the club.

[Stubbsy90+2]

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He’s heading up a team of people who look at a signing targets availability, affordability and if the personal terms are workable for the club.

So not rubber stamping cheques then?

[Dmas]

Financial aspects of signings….so stamping cheques, it’s also been made known its Kensall that negotiates, so it doesn’t really sound like big bad Ian is all that involved really does it

[Northernhibee]

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Not as funny as most of the thread titles on here this morning.

You seem to be wanting to have a bit of a wind up on here and haven’t contributed any sort of counterbalance. From the last twelve months what has improved on the footballing side of things? I’ve acknowledged the upturn on the commercial side of our club, hospitality and the stadium and also Hampden appearances so I’d love to know what has upset certain posters on here about that, if you think my post is one sided then I’d love to hear why.

[Northernhibee]

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Financial aspects of signings….so stamping cheques, it’s also been made known its Kensall that negotiates, so it doesn’t really sound like big bad Ian is all that involved really does it

So why do Ian and Ben’s house of recruitment laughs get it so badly wrong so often? We have a squad that is simultaneously extremely bloated and extremely short of the players we require (we still need at least one CB, one CM, one LM and one ST in my book). We spend money all over the place on players who don’t look as if they fit into a plan. We’ve done that two windows in a row.

How do we improve that?

[B.H.F.C]

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You have to forget last season though. It’s gone. If LJ can’t get a few wins out the rest of round ones fixtures then we can revisit. If Youan had tucked away his chances were talking very differently.

Discount last season and just look at what we’ve produced so far this season and we’re, arguably, regressing even further if that was bloody possible.

We’ve signed a raft of players and hardly any of them were playing yesterday. What does that say about our recruitment policy?

‘If’ this and ‘if’ that. I’m sick of the word ‘if’ where Hibs are concerned. We’re under performing in every aspect on the football side of things.

Those in Paisley yesterday made their feelings known at full time and it was nothing to do with being the usual suspects or just wanting to be negative. It was sheer frustration at watching the same movie play out. And it’ll continue to play out because we’re continuing to do the same things.

[Dmas]

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So why do Ian and Ben’s house of recruitment laughs get it so badly wrong so often? We have a squad that is simultaneously extremely bloated and extremely short of the players we require (we still need at least one CB, one CM, one LM and one ST in my book). We spend money all over the place on players who don’t look as if they fit into a plan. We’ve done that two windows in a row.

How do we improve that?

I’ve no idea how to improve it, I’m just a punter like yourself, however, the manager was on record saying he highlighted Tavares and Bojang and also pulled the strings on McAllisters laddy and persuaded mcgeady, so there’s your CM LM and ST elements the managers chosen to fill so to just throw the blame continuously towards Ian Gordon every time the team doesn’t perform is wrong

[green day]

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I’ve no idea how to improve it, I’m just a punter like yourself, however, the manager was on record saying he highlighted Tavares and Bojang and also pulled the strings on McAllisters laddy and persuaded mcgeady, so there’s your CM LM and ST elements the managers chosen to fill so to just throw the blame continuously towards Ian Gordon every time the team doesn’t perform is wrong

Its not that tricky, this is what I posted on page 1 of this thread yesterday;

"I said after Maloney was canned that the first appointment should be a DoF, not a manager.


DoF decides on football strategy, appoints managers, sources the type of players the manager wants via contacts etc.


That answer isnt rocket science, it was obvious to a blind man, but not to Ron Gordon and Ben Kensell.


Ron has gone on record stating that he thinks the recruitment has worked well - that tells me that he doesnt know enough, but is too stubborn to do the right thing.


That needs to change, but until Ron changes it, we are stuck in limbo."

[MWHIBBIES]

If our head of recruitment is only trusted to sign cheques, he should not be head of recruitment. We need someone who actually knows what the **** they're doing.

Either way, he is stealing a living right now.

[Dmas]

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Its not that tricky, this is what I posted on page 1 of this thread yesterday;

"I said after Maloney was canned that the first appointment should be a DoF, not a manager.


DoF decides on football strategy, appoints managers, sources the type of players the manager wants via contacts etc.


That answer isnt rocket science, it was obvious to a blind man, but not to Ron Gordon and Ben Kensell.


Ron has gone on record stating that he thinks the recruitment has worked well - that tells me that he doesnt know enough, but is too stubborn to do the right thing.


That needs to change, but until Ron changes it, we are stuck in limbo."

DoF is just another job title to throw blame at when it doesn’t go right, if we appointed one of them and nothing changed it wouldn’t be long before ‘the manager isn’t signing players’ ‘what is this guys qualifications’ etc etc

The truth of the matter is there’s a small line between success and failure on signing players at the level we are at and right now we’ve seen ourselves on the wrong side of it, look at that mob in gorgie signing huddies for years seem to have got it right last couple, same with aberdeen we where clearly in for a lot of same players, they slipped off looked to have done some decent deals this year.

Even higher up the food chain Rangers and Celtic, how many duds have rangers signed in recent years same with Celtic post ange hopeless both have DoF means nowt it’s a gamble and a risk no matter how you go about it

[Northernhibee]

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DoF is just another job title to throw blame at when it doesn’t go right, if we appointed one of them and nothing changed it wouldn’t be long before ‘the manager isn’t signing players’ ‘what is this guys qualifications’ etc etc

The truth of the matter is there’s a small line between success and failure on signing players at the level we are at and right now we’ve seen ourselves on the wrong side of it, look at that mob in gorgie signing huddies for years seem to have got it right last couple, same with aberdeen we where clearly in for a lot of same players, they slipped off looked to have done some decent deals this year.

Even higher up the food chain Rangers and Celtic, how many duds have rangers signed in recent years same with Celtic post ange hopeless both have DoF means nowt it’s a gamble and a risk no matter how you go about it

We’d absolutely be wanting to know the DoF’s qualifications if they were failing and just happened to be a direct family member of the owner. Asking if it’s a good appointment or just downright nepotism is a very fair question.

The easiest way to make that question to go away is to run a successful department and as of just now our recruitment is absolutely howling.

[makaveli1875]

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South, down or falling.

No other answer is correct.

I raise you backwards

[green day]

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DoF is just another job title to throw blame at when it doesn’t go right, if we appointed one of them and nothing changed it wouldn’t be long before ‘the manager isn’t signing players’ ‘what is this guys qualifications’ etc etc

The truth of the matter is there’s a small line between success and failure on signing players at the level we are at and right now we’ve seen ourselves on the wrong side of it, look at that mob in gorgie signing huddies for years seem to have got it right last couple, same with aberdeen we where clearly in for a lot of same players, they slipped off looked to have done some decent deals this year.

Even higher up the food chain Rangers and Celtic, how many duds have rangers signed in recent years same with Celtic post ange hopeless both have DoF means nowt it’s a gamble and a risk no matter how you go about it

The title doesnt matter, as you say - however ;

The difference between Hearts under Levein and Hearts now is that then he relied too much on his pal John Colhoun to source players and the result was scattergun rubbish (a bit like us now).

When he left, they appointed the guy Savage (from Southamption, iirc?) and the difference in the players recruited and brought in on loan is enormous.

Aberdeen have someone who does similar.

Aberdeen had one bad season, had a clearout of the crap and replaced players in the specific areas they were weak.

Their new striker hasnt needed time to bed in, 6 goals and an assist in his first 6 matches, ffs.

The "small line between success and failure" is the professionalism of those who are sourcing players for the manager, the hit rate is far higher for those clubs.

[Dmas]

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We’d absolutely be wanting to know the DoF’s qualifications if they were failing and just happened to be a direct family member of the owner. Asking if it’s a good appointment or just downright nepotism is a very fair question.

The easiest way to make that question to go away is to run a successful department and as of just now our recruitment is absolutely howling.

But as I said in a previous reply, Tavares mcgeady Bojang mcallister where all brought to the table or in mcgeadys case pushed over the line, by the manager.
Cabraja, youann, Marshall, bringing Boyle back all look like decent business to me.

The teams failing on its reliance on players signed up on long deals by previous managers can you really expect one window under a new manager to fix everything that was wrong last season? Can you expect 13 odd players to hit it off right away?

[Northernhibee]

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But as I said in a previous reply, Tavares mcgeady Bojang mcallister where all brought to the table or in mcgeadys case pushed over the line, by the manager.
Cabraja, youann, Marshall, bringing Boyle back all look like decent business to me.

The teams failing on its reliance on players signed up on long deals by previous managers can you really expect one window under a new manager to fix everything that was wrong last season? Can you expect 13 odd players to hit it off right away?

I can expect thirteen or fourteen players to show signs of filling the glaring gaps we had last season.

[Hibees1973]

I really don't care when people say 'oh, but Ron is a good guy'

It all comes down to results and we are on our 3rd manager in a year. Going by what Ron has done before, Johnson won't be here much longer based on results and performances so far this season. I will not criticise Johnson so early into his tenure as I am not fully aware of the restrictions he is working under.

Much as Ron seems to have upped our game on the commercial side of things, this will only be a success long-term if there is a decent team on the park.

Fans will dwindle away once apathy and resentment sets in. It's only down to our loyal fan base that ST are above 11,000. However, these supporters won't tolerate 1st team recruitment mis-management, waffle and nepotism indefinitely.

Ron is in the last chance saloon as far as managers are concerned. If Johnson is sacked then Ron, his son, Kensall and Kean should leave as well. I'm sure if Ron put the club up for sale there would be local people or a consortium happy to take over Hibs.

[lyonhibs]

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What?

We don’t have to forget last season at all. Lessons should have been learned from last season that clearly haven’t been.

The last thing we should be doing is simply forgetting last season.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it, as they say.

And here we are, no spine and praying that, a few players aside, that youngsters or a midfield that has repeatedly shown itself to be collectively impotent suddenly turn a corner.

Again.

[Gorgiehibee]

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Man for man our current players are at least as good as most other teams in the league they just don’t show it. OK, we have a couple of problem positions but so do other teams. The manager is not getting the best out of what he has, he may not be happy with what he has but he is still not using his resources well enough.
I don’t know who has the final say in what players arrive at ER but if LJ doesn’t have a big say in 1st team squad additions that’s a unsustainable situation.

Tbh I think we've bummed them up too much and they aren't as good as we think they are. Hence the position were in now.

[Sir David Gray]

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Man for man our current players are at least as good as most other teams in the league they just don’t show it. OK, we have a couple of problem positions but so do other teams. The manager is not getting the best out of what he has, he may not be happy with what he has but he is still not using his resources well enough.
I don’t know who has the final say in what players arrive at ER but if LJ doesn’t have a big say in 1st team squad additions that’s a unsustainable situation.

The stats suggest that we don't have a squad as good as most other teams in the league.

Of the 11 teams who were in the league last season this is the points tally from the last 36 league games.

Celtic - 98
Rangers - 86
Hearts - 56
Livingston - 51
St Mirren - 46
Aberdeen - 42
Motherwell - 41
Ross County - 41
Dundee Utd - 38
Hibs - 35
St Johnstone - 32

So only St Johnstone are worse than us and the likes of Dundee Utd, Ross County and Motherwell had top 6 fixtures at the end of last season as well which we obviously didn't have.

[Billy Whizz]

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The stats suggest that we don't have a squad as good as most other teams in the league.

Of the 11 teams who were in the league last season this is the points tally from the last 36 league games.

Celtic - 98
Rangers - 86
Hearts - 56
Livingston - 51
St Mirren - 46
Aberdeen - 42
Motherwell - 41
Ross County - 41
Dundee Utd - 38
Hibs - 35
St Johnstone - 32

So only St Johnstone are worse than us and the likes of Dundee Utd, Ross County and Motherwell had top 6 fixtures at the end of last season as well which we obviously didn't have.

Great analysis, thanks

[snedzuk]

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Discount last season and just look at what we’ve produced so far this season and we’re, arguably, regressing even further if that was bloody possible.

We’ve signed a raft of players and hardly any of them were playing yesterday. What does that say about our recruitment policy?

‘If’ this and ‘if’ that. I’m sick of the word ‘if’ where Hibs are concerned. We’re under performing in every aspect on the football side of things.

Those in Paisley yesterday made their feelings known at full time and it was nothing to do with being the usual suspects or just wanting to be negative. It was sheer frustration at watching the same movie play out. And it’ll continue to play out because we’re continuing to do the same things.

Goodness knows how many Hibs defeats Ive been to, but that was really poisonous at FT yesterday.

[GreenCastle]

Another issue we have is that if we don’t qualify for Europe this season the financial gap will easily increase again between us and Hearts / Aberdeen - we can’t let this happen regularly with the new format.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

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The stats suggest that we don't have a squad as good as most other teams in the league.

Of the 11 teams who were in the league last season this is the points tally from the last 36 league games.

Celtic - 98
Rangers - 86
Hearts - 56
Livingston - 51
St Mirren - 46
Aberdeen - 42
Motherwell - 41
Ross County - 41
Dundee Utd - 38
Hibs - 35
St Johnstone - 32

So only St Johnstone are worse than us and the likes of Dundee Utd, Ross County and Motherwell had top 6 fixtures at the end of last season as well which we obviously didn't have.

A fair indicator of where we are, anyone surprised hasn't been paying much attention.