Pat Stanton's Hibernian Dream Team

[Edina Street]

Has anyone else read Pat Stanton's book? Whilst I thoroughly enjoyed reading about what a great team the Turnbull's Tornadoes actually were, I was very disappointed with Pat's selection, and can understand why he ended up resigning from his Hibernian managerial post in 1984.

I won't reveal what his selection was, due to not wanting to infringe upon his copyright, and negatively effect his booksales. But after reading his book, I feel compelled to do my own Hibernian Dream Team, and also ask everyone on this forum what "your" Hibernian Dream Team would be?

Mine is as follows: 3-5-2

(1) Andy Goram (age 27) - Goalkeeper
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Goram

(2) Jock Govan (age 24) - Right sided centre-back
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_Govan

(3) Davie Shaw (age 29) - Left sided centre-back
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davie_Shaw

(4) Pat Stanton (age 28) - Centre-back/Defensive midfielder (Interchangable with Franck Sauzee)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Stanton

(5) Franck Sauzee (age 34) - Defensive midfielder/Centre back (Interchangable with Pat Stanton)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franck_Sauz%C3%A9e

(6) Eddie Turnbull (age 25)- Box to box midfielder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Turnbull

(7) Gordon Smith (age 26) - Right winger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon...er,_born_1924)

(8) Bobby Johnstone (age 25) - Attacking midfielder
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Johnstone

(9) Lawrie Reilly (age 23) - Striker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrie_Reilly

(10) Joe Baker (age 21) - Striker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Baker

(11) Willie Ormond (age 27) - Left winger
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Ormond

Subs

(12) Jim Leighton (age 35)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Leighton

(13) John Blackley (age 25) - Can cover for any of the centre-backs.

(14) John Collins (age 22) - Can cover for anyone in the midfield apart from Gordon Smith, and could probably cover at left-back if switched to 4-4-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C...er,_born_1968)

(15) John Cuthbertson (age N/A) - Can cover for Lawrie Reilly or Joe Baker
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C...%E2%80%931956)

(16) John Brownlie (age 22) - Can cover for Gordon Smith, or fill in at right-back by switching to 4-4-2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brownlie

(17) Russell Latapy (age 30) - Can cover for Bobby Johnstone, or either of the two strikers if switching to 4-5-1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Latapy

(18) Leigh Griffiths (age 22) - Can cover for Lawrie Reilly or Joe Baker.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Griffiths

So, what changes would you make? Leighton instead of Goram? Jimmy O'Rourke instead of Leigh Griffiths maybe? What about Peter Cormack? He must have been a good player given his success at Liverpool? How would he fit in? Arthur Duncan instead of Ormond perhaps?

What would "your" Hibernian Dream Team be?

[BILLYHIBS]

Good post

I think you have pretty much nailed it but there is always room for improvement

The Little Magician was an excellent player for us gave us a whole new dimension in midfield and was 33rd best player in the world for a reason and could change a game in the blink of an eye

I never saw the Famous Five but you are correct by all accounts Bobby Johnstone was an early day Latapy with his vision and passing ability and probably even better going on reports from Citee and Oldham fans in his excellent biography

My personal favourite is Gordon Smith with the most games and goals but also feel I would have a place for The Flyer Arthur Duncan with the most League and Cup appearances and was totally outstanding for us and a tremendous servant to our great club who played with great pace and enthusiasm

I agree with The Goalie who was by far the best goalkeeper I have seen play for HIBS

Early Hibees Darling Willie Groves Bobby Atherton and Andy McGeachan must also rate a mention

I also remember feeling non plussed with Pat Stanton’s Dream Team and felt at the time it was a tactical diplomatic selection from a total gentleman club legend and another fantastic Hibernian player


Goram Brownlie Murphy Stanton Sauzee Blackley Smith Johnstone Reilly Cropley and Duncan

Subs Leighton Latapy Griffiths Cormack Ormond McGinlay and McNamee

Edit:

I cannot believe I left out my Dad’s favourite Joe Baker who was electric in his first spell at the club and Mr Hibs Eddie Turnbull

Too many great players to choose from

Oh and Eric Stevenson

[StarryPloughHSC]

Leighton, gray, stanton, sauzee, murphy, smith, broony, thomson, duncan, baker, reilly (4-4-2). Subs - Logan, L stevenson, orourke, turnbull, sproule, riordan, jones. Haven't seen pats line up so illbe purchasing the book hes one of the all time greats. Players i had to leave out but deserve a shout out are as follows - ormond, johnstone, cormack, e stevenson, willie hamilton, cropley, brownlie, ally mcleod, archibald, weir, wright, budgie, latapy, john oneill, boozy, john mcginn, henderson, stokes, cummings.

[Brightside]

Not a fan of people putting themselves in their dream team. 😂.

[WeeRussell]

You’re able to go back a fair bit further than me… but We MUST be able to do better on the bench than Gary Caldwell?

I’d also definitely have Riordan ahead of Griffiths, and would have to find a place for Latapy.

[superfurryhibby]

Stanton’s book has been out for tears, 2014 or thereabout. Certainly Lawrie Reilly was alive, so I think you can post his selection no probs.

I find it bizarre that anyone could be disappointed by his selection and then go on to say that they can understand why he resigned from being Hibs manager

[WeeRussell]

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Stanton’s book has been out for tears, 2014 or thereabout. Certainly Lawrie Reilly was alive, so I think you can post his selection no probs.

I find it bizarre that anyone could be disappointed by his selection and then go on to say that they can understand why he resigned from being Hibs manager

… and then put Gary Caldwell in their improved offering 😁

[DIXIHIBS]

Its very difficult to choose a greatest ever 11. You cant really compare say bobby johnstone with latapy as these players are from completely different eras. The famous five should be in everyones greatest 11 as they won titles for hibs but most people have never even seen them play. Would be interesting to hear people best teams from 40s/50s....60s/70s....80s/90s....2000 to present day.

[BSEJVT]

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Stanton’s book has been out for tears, 2014 or thereabout. Certainly Lawrie Reilly was alive, so I think you can post his selection no probs.

I find it bizarre that anyone could be disappointed by his selection and then go on to say that they can understand why he resigned from being Hibs manager

100%

Like the OP’s selection, it was his idea of his best team

We all have our biases of formation and favourite players whom others may not rate or some will have seen players others have not

With respect to the OP I will take SAF’s view of Pat’s managerial credentials before his.

Hibs were an absolute basket case of a club during Pat’s reign as manager and he had to play the cards he was dealt

[Edina Street]

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Good post

I think you have pretty much nailed it but there is always room for improvement

The Little Magician was an excellent player for us gave us a whole new dimension in midfield and was 33rd best player in the world for a reason and could change a game in the blink of an eye

I never saw the Famous Five but you are correct by all accounts Bobby Johnstone was an early day Latapy with his vision and passing ability and probably even better going on reports from Citee and Oldham fans in his excellent biography

I can't remember which Hibernian book I read it in, nor which member of the famous five it was, but I do remember comparisons being made with modern day stars (might have been Lawrie Reilly). Bobby Johnstone was compared to Russell Latapy, though a better finisher than Russell.

My personal favourite is Gordon Smith with the most games and goals but also feel I would have a place for The Flyer Arthur Duncan with the most League and Cup appearances and was totally outstanding for us and a tremendous servant to our great club who played with great pace and enthusiasm

Yes, Gordon Smith was compared to Brian Laudrup.

The reason I chose Willie Ormond over Arthur Duncan was because it was said that Michael O'Neill from the first six months of the 1994-95 season reminded him of Willie Ormond, with the only difference between the two being that Willie Ormond was a better finisher of the ball. I seem to remember that Michael O'Neill went toe to toe with Brian Laudrup for Scottish player of the year before suffering a dip in form, so if Willie Ormond was for his entire career similar to what Michael O'Neill was for six months, then that seals it for me.

I agree with The Goalie who was by far the best goalkeeper I have seen play for HIBS

It is a difficult decision to make, given that Jim Leighton enjoyed his best goalkeeping days at Hibs, and won twenty three of his ninety one Scotland caps whilst playing for Hibs.

Early Hibees Darling Willie Groves Bobby Atherton and Andy McGeachan must also rate a mention

Yes, Willie Groves, acquired the first ever world record transfer fee.
Bobby Atherton, captained Hibernian to the 1902 Scottish cup, and 1903 league championship. Tempting to throw him on the bench in place of John Collins.
Andy McGheachan, scored the only goal for Hibs in the 1-0 victory over Celtic in the 1902 Scottish cup final. Not quite a prolific enough goalscorer to be considered for a Hibernian Dream Team however.

I also remember feeling non plussed with Pat Stanton’s Dream Team and felt at the time it was a tactical diplomatic selection from a total gentleman club legend and another fantastic Hibernian player

No doubt he is a legend. Stanton himself has said that he actually felt he was a better central defender, than midfielder. This was probably proven accurate by Jock Stein whom signed Pat Stanton and converted him to centre back. Celtic went on to win the title and lift the Scottish cup with Pat in the centre of defence.

Goram Brownlie Murphy Stanton Sauzee Blackley Smith Johnstone Reilly Cropley and Duncan

Subs Leighton Latapy Griffiths Cormack Ormond McGinlay and McNamee

I thought about David Murphy myself. But Erich Schaedler being selected in the Scotland squad for the 1974 FIFA World Cup Finals twisted my arm in Erich's favour. This squad is considered Scotland's best ever team by some, and apparently going in to the World Cup they were considered geniune contenders to lift the cup.

I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.

I cannot believe I left out my Dad’s favourite Joe Baker who was electric in his first spell at the club and Mr Hibs Eddie Turnbull

Eddie Turnbull was compared to Franck Sauzee, in that they could both play anywhere from defence to attack. Whilst Franck was described as the better all round player, Eddie was probably a better goalscorer. Eddie also had a shot and passing repertoire similar to that of Franck Sauzee, apparently.

And yes, Joe Baker has a goals per game ratio superior to that of Lawrie Reilly, whom in turn had a better Scottish international goals per game ratio than even Denis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Second only to Hughie Gallacher. I do believe that had it not been for the fact that Joe Baker had a Scottish accent, and Scottish roots, he would have won more than eight caps for England, and would likely have been on the park instead of Geoff Hurst for the 1966 world cup final. I do believe that if Joe Baker had played for Scotland, like he should have, he would today be considered Scotland's greatest ever striker. Though, Joe did play alongside Denis Law for Torino, and Denis Law was considered the better of the two. But the fact that Joe Baker, Denis Law and Lawrie Reilly are mentioned in the same category, gives a good indication of what level of player we are talking about, when discussing the famous five.period. Perhaps Denis Law was the better all round forward. But both Lawrie Reilly and Joe Baker were in the same category.

Funny enough though, there is a Hibernian player with a goals per game ratio even better than Joe Baker. John Cuthbertson. The striker that played for Hibs during their 1947-48 Scottish league championship win. Unfortunately he appears to have had his career destroyed by reaching his peak during the war years. i have searched Wikipedia and the Hibernian Historical Trust to try and get an age for him, but everything seems to be lost. I know Lawrie Reilly mentioned him in his book, but just can't remember if he gave an age for John.

It would be good to get more information on this prolific goalscorer that won a league title whilst playing for us.

[BILLYHIBS]

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I can't remember which Hibernian book I read it in, nor which member of the famous five it was, but I do remember comparisons being made with modern day stars (might have been Lawrie Reilly). Bobby Johnstone was compared to Russell Latapy, though a better finisher than Russell.



Yes, Gordon Smith was compared to Brian Laudrup.

The reason I chose Willie Ormond over Arthur Duncan was because it was said that Michael O'Neill from the first six months of the 1994-95 season reminded him of Willie Ormond, with the only difference between the two being that Willie Ormond was a better finisher of the ball. I seem to remember that Michael O'Neill went toe to toe with Brian Laudrup for Scottish player of the year before suffering a dip in form, so if Willie Ormand was for his entire career similar to what Michael O'Neill was for six months, then that seals it for me.



It is a difficult decision to make, given that Jim Leighton enjoyed his best goalkeeping days at Hibs, and won twenty three of his ninety one Scotland caps whilst playing for Hibs.



Yes, Willie Groves, acquired the first ever world record transfer fee.
Bobby Atherton, captained Hibernian to the 1902 Scottish cup, and 1903 league championship. Tempting to throw him on the bench in place of John Collins.
Andy McGheachan, scored the only goal for Hibs in the 1-0 victory over Celtic in the 1902 Scottish cup final. Not quite a prolific enough goalscorer to be considered for a Hibernian Dream Team however.



No doubt he is a legend. Stanton himself has said that he actually felt he was a better central defender, than midfielder. This was probably proven accurate by Jock Stein whom signed Pat Stanton and converted him to centre back. Celtic went on to win the title and lift the Scottish cup with Pat in the centre of defence.



I thought about David Murphy myself. But Erich Schaedler being selected in the Scotland squad for the 1974 FIFA World Cup Finals twisted my arm in Erich's favour. This squad is considered Scotland's best ever team by some, and apparently going in to the World Cup they were considered geniune contenders to lift the cup.

I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.



Eddie Turnbull was compared to Franck Sauzee, in that they could both play anywhere from defence to attack. Whilst Franck was described as the better all round player, Eddie was probably a better goalscorer. Eddie also had a shot and passing repertoire similar to that of Franck Sauzee, apparently.

And yes, Joe Baker has a goals per game ratio superior to that of Lawrie Reilly, whom in turn had a better Scottish international goals per game ratio than even Denis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Second only to Hughie Gallacher. I do believe that had it not been for the fact that Joe Baker had a Scottish accent, and Scottish roots, he would have won more than eight caps for England, and would likely have been on the park instead of Geoff Hurst for the 1966 world cup final. I do believe that if Joe Baker had played for Scotland, like he should have, he would today be considered Scotland's greatest ever striker. Though, Joe did play alongside Denis Law for Torino, and Denis Law was considered the better of the two. But the fact that Joe Baker, Denis Law and Lawrie Reilly are mentioned in the same category, gives a good indication of what level of player we are talking about, when discussing the famous five.period. Perhaps Denis Law was the better all round forward. But both Lawrie Reilly and Joe Baker were in the same category.

Funny enough though, there is a Hibernian player with a goals per game ratio even better than Joe Baker. John Cuthbertson. The striker that played for Hibs during their 1947-48 Scottish league championship win. Unfortunately he appears to have had his career destroyed by reaching his peak during the war years. i have searched Wikipedia and the Hibernian Historical Trust to try and get an age for him, but everything seems to be lost. I know Lawrie Reilly mentioned him in his book, but just can't remember if he gave an age for John.

It would be good to get more information on this prolific goalscorer that won a league title whilst playing for us.

Been a wee while since I read King Paddy’s book so I can’t really comment on his reasoning behind particular selections

Having a sneak peak at his final selection the two that stand out for me are Alan Rough great goalkeeper and Hall of Fame inductee but Dream Team ? George Best fair to say probably did his best work away from Easter Road

He also includes John Parke who I am told was a great full back and NI international

I remember Pat Stanton’s time as Manager as being a transitional period with no money and having to rely on youngsters but great excitement when Roughie made his debut versus Celtic and probably kept us in the League for a good few years but King Paddy cut a frustrated figure having to Manage with one hand tied behind his back

Cubby I am told by family members that saw him that he had the knack of scoring with every part of his anatomy but as long as the ball goes in that is all that counts

Scored the opener in the 1947 Scottish Cup Final in the first minute versus Aberdeen and we still lost

[Edina Street]

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Stanton’s book has been out for tears, 2014 or thereabout. Certainly Lawrie Reilly was alive, so I think you can post his selection no probs.

I find it bizarre that anyone could be disappointed by his selection and then go on to say that they can understand why he resigned from being Hibs manager

Are you sure?

Ok, here is Pat Stanton's dreamteam, as follows:

(1) Alan Rough
(2) John Brownlie
(3) John Parke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Parke_(footballer)
(4) Franck Sauzee
(5) Pat Stanton
(6) Alex Cropley
(7) Gordon Smith
(8) Willie Hamilton
(9) Joe Baker
(10) Lawrie Reilly
(11) George Best

Subs

(12) John Blackley
(13) Bobby Johnstone
(14) Alex Edwards
(15) John Collins
(16) Eric Stevenson
(17) Neil Martin
(18) Jimmy O'Rourke

[ancient hibee]

As someone said you can't really compare players from different eras. What you can do is compare their performances with contemporaries.Here's my take on the best players I've seen in their positions. Not saying they would make a team.

Andy Goram

Jock Govan, John McNamee, John Parke

Gordon Smith,Bobby Johnstone, Eddie Turnbull, Willie Hamilton, Willie Ormond

Lawrie Reilly, Joe Baker

Reserve team

Lawrie Leslie

John Brownlie, George Stewart, David Murphy

Alex Edwards, Pat Stanton, Franck Sauzee, Peter Cormack, Arthur Duncan

Alan Gordon, Joe McBride

[Edina Street]

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You’re able to go back a fair bit further than me… but We MUST be able to do better on the bench than Gary Caldwell?

I’d also definitely have Riordan ahead of Griffiths, and would have to find a place for Latapy.

I just felt it was hard to ignore the fifty five caps that Gary went on to win for Scotland. Though admittedly he won those caps in one of Scotland's poorest sides, and I am sure if defenders such as Hugh Howie that had to compete with the Rangers "Iron Curtain", played today, they would probably also win dozens of Scotland caps.

[lapsedhibee]

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I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.

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I just felt it was hard to ignore the fifty five caps Gary went on to win for Scotland.

Would have been very hard for any of these players to have won 50+ caps in any era because none of them played for the old firm.
Caldwell won 50+ caps because he played for the old firm.

[Edina Street]

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100%

Hibs were an absolute basket case of a club during Pat’s reign as manager and he had to play the cards he was dealt

Wasn't one of the reasons Hibernian were in such a bad state because Tom Hart was playing football manager and doing silly things like wasting money on thirty three year old alcoholics, and then choosing them over Hibernian legends such as Eddie Turnbull?

<<<<<< 4 mins 55 secs

Elsewhere in the interview, Eddie also blames Hart for Hibernian not signing Gordon Strachan and John Robertson.

[StarryPloughHSC]

pat picking himself in his own dreamteam is oustanding patter

[JimBHibees]

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pat picking himself in his own dreamteam is oustanding patter

Absolutely is

[MKHIBEE]

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I can't remember which Hibernian book I read it in, nor which member of the famous five it was, but I do remember comparisons being made with modern day stars (might have been Lawrie Reilly). Bobby Johnstone was compared to Russell Latapy, though a better finisher than Russell.



Yes, Gordon Smith was compared to Brian Laudrup.

The reason I chose Willie Ormond over Arthur Duncan was because it was said that Michael O'Neill from the first six months of the 1994-95 season reminded him of Willie Ormond, with the only difference between the two being that Willie Ormond was a better finisher of the ball. I seem to remember that Michael O'Neill went toe to toe with Brian Laudrup for Scottish player of the year before suffering a dip in form, so if Willie Ormond was for his entire career similar to what Michael O'Neill was for six months, then that seals it for me.



It is a difficult decision to make, given that Jim Leighton enjoyed his best goalkeeping days at Hibs, and won twenty three of his ninety one Scotland caps whilst playing for Hibs.



Yes, Willie Groves, acquired the first ever world record transfer fee.
Bobby Atherton, captained Hibernian to the 1902 Scottish cup, and 1903 league championship. Tempting to throw him on the bench in place of John Collins.
Andy McGheachan, scored the only goal for Hibs in the 1-0 victory over Celtic in the 1902 Scottish cup final. Not quite a prolific enough goalscorer to be considered for a Hibernian Dream Team however.



No doubt he is a legend. Stanton himself has said that he actually felt he was a better central defender, than midfielder. This was probably proven accurate by Jock Stein whom signed Pat Stanton and converted him to centre back. Celtic went on to win the title and lift the Scottish cup with Pat in the centre of defence.



I thought about David Murphy myself. But Erich Schaedler being selected in the Scotland squad for the 1974 FIFA World Cup Finals twisted my arm in Erich's favour. This squad is considered Scotland's best ever team by some, and apparently going in to the World Cup they were considered geniune contenders to lift the cup.

I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.



Eddie Turnbull was compared to Franck Sauzee, in that they could both play anywhere from defence to attack. Whilst Franck was described as the better all round player, Eddie was probably a better goalscorer. Eddie also had a shot and passing repertoire similar to that of Franck Sauzee, apparently.

And yes, Joe Baker has a goals per game ratio superior to that of Lawrie Reilly, whom in turn had a better Scottish international goals per game ratio than even Denis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Second only to Hughie Gallacher. I do believe that had it not been for the fact that Joe Baker had a Scottish accent, and Scottish roots, he would have won more than eight caps for England, and would likely have been on the park instead of Geoff Hurst for the 1966 world cup final. I do believe that if Joe Baker had played for Scotland, like he should have, he would today be considered Scotland's greatest ever striker. Though, Joe did play alongside Denis Law for Torino, and Denis Law was considered the better of the two. But the fact that Joe Baker, Denis Law and Lawrie Reilly are mentioned in the same category, gives a good indication of what level of player we are talking about, when discussing the famous five.period. Perhaps Denis Law was the better all round forward. But both Lawrie Reilly and Joe Baker were in the same category.

Funny enough though, there is a Hibernian player with a goals per game ratio even better than Joe Baker. John Cuthbertson. The striker that played for Hibs during their 1947-48 Scottish league championship win. Unfortunately he appears to have had his career destroyed by reaching his peak during the war years. i have searched Wikipedia and the Hibernian Historical Trust to try and get an age for him, but everything seems to be lost. I know Lawrie Reilly mentioned him in his book, but just can't remember if he gave an age for John.

It would be good to get more information on this prolific goalscorer that won a league title whilst playing for us.

Soccerbase gives John’s DOB as 01/01/1927 and his age as 95 so presumably he is still alive. Outstanding goal stats for him

[BILLYHIBS]

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I can't remember which Hibernian book I read it in, nor which member of the famous five it was, but I do remember comparisons being made with modern day stars (might have been Lawrie Reilly). Bobby Johnstone was compared to Russell Latapy, though a better finisher than Russell.



Yes, Gordon Smith was compared to Brian Laudrup.

The reason I chose Willie Ormond over Arthur Duncan was because it was said that Michael O'Neill from the first six months of the 1994-95 season reminded him of Willie Ormond, with the only difference between the two being that Willie Ormond was a better finisher of the ball. I seem to remember that Michael O'Neill went toe to toe with Brian Laudrup for Scottish player of the year before suffering a dip in form, so if Willie Ormond was for his entire career similar to what Michael O'Neill was for six months, then that seals it for me.



It is a difficult decision to make, given that Jim Leighton enjoyed his best goalkeeping days at Hibs, and won twenty three of his ninety one Scotland caps whilst playing for Hibs.



Yes, Willie Groves, acquired the first ever world record transfer fee.
Bobby Atherton, captained Hibernian to the 1902 Scottish cup, and 1903 league championship. Tempting to throw him on the bench in place of John Collins.
Andy McGheachan, scored the only goal for Hibs in the 1-0 victory over Celtic in the 1902 Scottish cup final. Not quite a prolific enough goalscorer to be considered for a Hibernian Dream Team however.



No doubt he is a legend. Stanton himself has said that he actually felt he was a better central defender, than midfielder. This was probably proven accurate by Jock Stein whom signed Pat Stanton and converted him to centre back. Celtic went on to win the title and lift the Scottish cup with Pat in the centre of defence.



I thought about David Murphy myself. But Erich Schaedler being selected in the Scotland squad for the 1974 FIFA World Cup Finals twisted my arm in Erich's favour. This squad is considered Scotland's best ever team by some, and apparently going in to the World Cup they were considered geniune contenders to lift the cup.

I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.



Eddie Turnbull was compared to Franck Sauzee, in that they could both play anywhere from defence to attack. Whilst Franck was described as the better all round player, Eddie was probably a better goalscorer. Eddie also had a shot and passing repertoire similar to that of Franck Sauzee, apparently.

And yes, Joe Baker has a goals per game ratio superior to that of Lawrie Reilly, whom in turn had a better Scottish international goals per game ratio than even Denis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Second only to Hughie Gallacher. I do believe that had it not been for the fact that Joe Baker had a Scottish accent, and Scottish roots, he would have won more than eight caps for England, and would likely have been on the park instead of Geoff Hurst for the 1966 world cup final. I do believe that if Joe Baker had played for Scotland, like he should have, he would today be considered Scotland's greatest ever striker. Though, Joe did play alongside Denis Law for Torino, and Denis Law was considered the better of the two. But the fact that Joe Baker, Denis Law and Lawrie Reilly are mentioned in the same category, gives a good indication of what level of player we are talking about, when discussing the famous five.period. Perhaps Denis Law was the better all round forward. But both Lawrie Reilly and Joe Baker were in the same category.

Funny enough though, there is a Hibernian player with a goals per game ratio even better than Joe Baker. John Cuthbertson. The striker that played for Hibs during their 1947-48 Scottish league championship win. Unfortunately he appears to have had his career destroyed by reaching his peak during the war years. i have searched Wikipedia and the Hibernian Historical Trust to try and get an age for him, but everything seems to be lost. I know Lawrie Reilly mentioned him in his book, but just can't remember if he gave an age for John.

It would be good to get more information on this prolific goalscorer that won a league title whilst playing for us.

Try www.fitbastats.com for all things Hibs

Always my first point of reference

[BSEJVT]

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Soccerbase gives John’s DOB as 01/01/1927 and his age as 95 so presumably he is still alive. Outstanding goal stats for him

Met him and his wife Nancy in Banchory on holiday when I was about 13

They were staying in Harrogate at the time

They subsequently became friendly with my folks but Cubby died before they moved back up to Mountcastle

I would place him as being born around start of 1920’s? as I would have placed him mid -late 50’s at that time but could be miles off it

[StarryPloughHSC]

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Absolutely is

the guy is an absolute legend on and off the pitch jim he is the greatest hibernian there ever has been and will be for me no one else comes close mate

[Mick O'Rourke]

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Met him and his wife Nancy in Banchory on holiday when I was about 13

They were staying in Harrogate at the time

They subsequently became friendly with my folks but Cubby died before they moved back up to Mountcastle

I would place him as being born around start of 1920’s? as I would have placed him mid -late 50’s at that time but could be miles off it

Along with Bobby Combe,who i was told from older relatives and Hibs supporters ,was a similar player to Jimmy O'Rourke,Johnny Cuthbertson was talked with great affection and admiration.

Found a Scotsman archive report on a Derby game at the outset of WW2.. 1940
Cubby plays a big role in a game that must have been a sight to see ...If you could
Surreal and fascinating game, going by match report.
Read on


https://www.scotsman.com/sport/footb...y-1940-1549078

[MKHIBEE]

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I can't remember which Hibernian book I read it in, nor which member of the famous five it was, but I do remember comparisons being made with modern day stars (might have been Lawrie Reilly). Bobby Johnstone was compared to Russell Latapy, though a better finisher than Russell.



Yes, Gordon Smith was compared to Brian Laudrup.

The reason I chose Willie Ormond over Arthur Duncan was because it was said that Michael O'Neill from the first six months of the 1994-95 season reminded him of Willie Ormond, with the only difference between the two being that Willie Ormond was a better finisher of the ball. I seem to remember that Michael O'Neill went toe to toe with Brian Laudrup for Scottish player of the year before suffering a dip in form, so if Willie Ormond was for his entire career similar to what Michael O'Neill was for six months, then that seals it for me.



It is a difficult decision to make, given that Jim Leighton enjoyed his best goalkeeping days at Hibs, and won twenty three of his ninety one Scotland caps whilst playing for Hibs.



Yes, Willie Groves, acquired the first ever world record transfer fee.
Bobby Atherton, captained Hibernian to the 1902 Scottish cup, and 1903 league championship. Tempting to throw him on the bench in place of John Collins.
Andy McGheachan, scored the only goal for Hibs in the 1-0 victory over Celtic in the 1902 Scottish cup final. Not quite a prolific enough goalscorer to be considered for a Hibernian Dream Team however.



No doubt he is a legend. Stanton himself has said that he actually felt he was a better central defender, than midfielder. This was probably proven accurate by Jock Stein whom signed Pat Stanton and converted him to centre back. Celtic went on to win the title and lift the Scottish cup with Pat in the centre of defence.



I thought about David Murphy myself. But Erich Schaedler being selected in the Scotland squad for the 1974 FIFA World Cup Finals twisted my arm in Erich's favour. This squad is considered Scotland's best ever team by some, and apparently going in to the World Cup they were considered geniune contenders to lift the cup.

I tend to think that if players such as Jock Govan, John Brownlie, Erich Schaedler, John Blackley, Peter Cormack, Alex Cropley played in Scotland today, they would all win 50+ caps, though the quality within the Scotland squad does appear to be improving again at long last.



Eddie Turnbull was compared to Franck Sauzee, in that they could both play anywhere from defence to attack. Whilst Franck was described as the better all round player, Eddie was probably a better goalscorer. Eddie also had a shot and passing repertoire similar to that of Franck Sauzee, apparently.

And yes, Joe Baker has a goals per game ratio superior to that of Lawrie Reilly, whom in turn had a better Scottish international goals per game ratio than even Denis Law and Kenny Dalglish. Second only to Hughie Gallacher. I do believe that had it not been for the fact that Joe Baker had a Scottish accent, and Scottish roots, he would have won more than eight caps for England, and would likely have been on the park instead of Geoff Hurst for the 1966 world cup final. I do believe that if Joe Baker had played for Scotland, like he should have, he would today be considered Scotland's greatest ever striker. Though, Joe did play alongside Denis Law for Torino, and Denis Law was considered the better of the two. But the fact that Joe Baker, Denis Law and Lawrie Reilly are mentioned in the same category, gives a good indication of what level of player we are talking about, when discussing the famous five.period. Perhaps Denis Law was the better all round forward. But both Lawrie Reilly and Joe Baker were in the same category.

Funny enough though, there is a Hibernian player with a goals per game ratio even better than Joe Baker. John Cuthbertson. The striker that played for Hibs during their 1947-48 Scottish league championship win. Unfortunately he appears to have had his career destroyed by reaching his peak during the war years. i have searched Wikipedia and the Hibernian Historical Trust to try and get an age for him, but everything seems to be lost. I know Lawrie Reilly mentioned him in his book, but just can't remember if he gave an age for John.

It would be good to get more information on this prolific goalscorer that won a league title whilst playing for us.

Soccerbase gives John’s DOB as 01/01/1927 and his age as 95 so presumably he is still alive. Outstanding goal stats for him

[Edina Street]

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Soccerbase gives John’s DOB as 01/01/1927 and his age as 95 so presumably he is still alive. Outstanding goal stats for him

This must be an error. John Cuthbertson signed for Hibernian in 1939, and left Hibernian in 1949. So he must have been born earlier than 1927.

He scored 41 official post-war goals in 54 games, and 83 wartime goals in 103 games, totalling 124 goals in 157 games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...op_goalscorers

[Diclonius]

Based purely on players I've actually SEEN play for us at their peak, would probably go with:

Marciano

Whittaker Ambrose Jones Murphy

Allan McGeouch McGinn

Boyle Griffiths Fletcher

Subs: Williams, Gray, Stevenson, Brown, Fyvie, Stokes, Cummings

[Mick O'Rourke]

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This must be an error. John Cuthbertson signed for Hibernian in 1939, and left Hibernian in 1949. So he must have been born earlier than 1927.

He scored 41 official post-war goals in 54 games, and 83 wartime goals in 103 games, totalling 124 goals in 157 games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...op_goalscorers

Indeed
My post#23
i include match report from 1940 v Hearts.
John played and scored a hat trick,so i guess he was more than 13 yrs old at the time!!

[cameronw-hfc]

Only in my 20s so not seen some of the names here, but id go with

Rocky

Gray
Ambrose
Jones
Murphy

Mcgeough
Mcginn
Allan

Boyle
Fletch
Derek


Subs- Bogdan, GOC, Whitts, Brown, Stevenson, Zemmama and Sparky

Special mention to Sauzee and Latapy but I don't actually remember them despite seeing them, so don't feel I can put either in despite definitely being better than some in there.

[loanheadhibby]

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Has anyone else read Pat Stanton's book? Whilst I thoroughly enjoyed reading about what a great team the Turnbull's Tornadoes actually were, I was very disappointed with Pat's selection, and can understand why he ended up resigning from his Hibernian managerial post in 1984.

I won't reveal what his selection was, due to not wanting to infringe upon his copyright, and negatively effect his booksales. But after reading his book, I feel compelled to do my own Hibernian Dream Team, and also ask everyone on this forum what "your" Hibernian Dream Team would be?

Mine is as follows:

(1) Andy Goram (age 27)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andy_Goram

(2) John Brownlie (age 22)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Brownlie

(3) Erich Schaedler (age 25)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erich_Schaedler

(4) Pat Stanton (age 28)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Stanton

(5) John Blackley (age 26)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Blackley

(6) Franck Sauzee (age 34)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franck_Sauz%C3%A9e

(7) Gordon Smith (age 26)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon...er,_born_1924)

(8) Bobby Johnstone (age 25)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Johnstone

(9) Lawrie Reilly (age 23)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrie_Reilly

(10) Joe Baker (age 21)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Baker

(11) Willie Ormond (age 27)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_Ormond

Subs

(12) Jim Leighton (age 35)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Leighton

(13) Jock Govan (age 24)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jock_Govan

(14) Eddie Turnbull (age 25)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Turnbull

(15) John Cuthbertson (age N/A)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C...%E2%80%931956)

(16) Gary Caldwell (age 24)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Caldwell

(17) John Collins (age 22)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C...er,_born_1968)

(18) Leigh Griffiths (age 22)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leigh_Griffiths

Omission

Yes, I am aware that whilst playing for Hibernian, Russell Latapy was voted 33rd best player in the world alongside Roy Keane and Dennis Bergkamp, but I believe Bobby Johnstone was just about the same as Russell Latapy in every other department except from goalscoring. Bobby Johnstone was by far a more prolific goalscoring attacking midfielder than Russell Latapy. Russell Latapy also loses out to John Collins and Eddie Turnbull on the bench due to Eddie and John being far more versatile and capable of filling in a greater number of positions.
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Footb...ar.-a067912159

So, what changes would you make? Leighton instead of Goram? Govan instead of Brownlie? Should Russell have been included anywhere? at who's expense? Jimmy O'Rourke instead of Leigh Griffiths maybe? What about Peter Cormack? He must have been a good player given his success at Liverpool? How would he fit in? Arthur Duncan instead of Ormond perhaps?

What would "your" Hibernian Dream Team be?

Hard to disagree with your team.
Think I would be pretty much the same.
Loved Shades but John Parke and David Murphy possibly better.

[Allant1981]

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Only in my 20s so not seen some of the names here, but id go with

Rocky

Gray
Ambrose
Jones
Murphy

Mcgeough
Mcginn
Allan

Boyle
Fletch
Derek


Subs- Bogdan, GOC, Whitts, Brown, Stevenson, Zemmama and Sparky

Special mention to Sauzee and Latapy but I don't actually remember them despite seeing them, so don't feel I can put either in despite definitely being better than some in there.

Mcgeouch before scott brown, personally theres not a chance that would happen but each to their own