The non hysterical case for a new manager

[MWHIBBIES]

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This sounds familiar


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Please don't compare Ross with butcher. If you think they are anything alike, or this team is anything like the one that went down you simply did not watch Hibs then.

[A Hi-Bee]

Should he stay or should he go, I dont know I am getting to the stage that I dont care either way, things will not change anytime soon, building a team is a long haul but not sure just how long he may have left if the league position dont start to get better.

[Since452]

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Please don't compare Ross with butcher. If you think they are anything alike, or this team is anything like the one that went down you simply did not watch Hibs then.

Agreed. The players stopped playing for Butcher as he told them they were all out. These players are clearly still clearly grafting for Ross. Big difference. The frustrating thing is I think we've played well in our last 4 or 5 games. It's just not happening for us right now but I believe it will.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Agreed. The players stopped playing for Butcher as he told them they were all out. These players are clearly still clearly grafting for Ross. Big difference. The frustrating thing is I think we've played well in our last 4 or 5 games. It's just not happening for us right now but I believe it will.

Correct

[GreenCastle]

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I thought Ross reacted well to the situation today.

We could have been dead and buried after half an hour. He made a proactive change and we were the better side from then on.

I'm still in the camp of not really being that bothered about him staying or going. I'm not sure today pushed me any further towards wanting a change though.

That last paragraph is kind of an issue.

Should we not be happy with the manager and wanting him to stay.

He seems to be like marmite or something in between. Some can’t stand him..some think he’s doing ok..some think he’s fantastic.

The poll on here recently showed most didn’t mind him or wanted a change and the semi final has definitely shown when he gets it right it’s very good and that’s got him some time in the bank.

How this team does between now and cup final will decide his future - even maybe up till the derby.

I said we over achieved last season and would be hard to follow - we didn’t improve / strengthen the player pool in summer and it’s hurting us / has hurt us with key players missing - not enough goals / conceding too many from crosses.

[GreenCastle]

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Agreed. The players stopped playing for Butcher as he told them they were all out. These players are clearly still clearly grafting for Ross. Big difference. The frustrating thing is I think we've played well in our last 4 or 5 games. It's just not happening for us right now but I believe it will.

Yeah we aren’t at Butcher levels - the players are playing for the manger but the lack of creativity and goals - plus poor defending is costing us. Inconsistent performances = inconsistent results = mid table.

[GoalsMcGinley]

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Please don't compare Ross with butcher. If you think they are anything alike, or this team is anything like the one that went down you simply did not watch Hibs then.

Whether the players stopped playing for Ross or not is irrelevant. The similarities between the 2 seasons are clear. We’re on our worst run of form since that season. If you think JR can turn it around fair enough but I’ve a sinking feeling in my stomach that says you’re wrong (people saying we’re too good to get relegated have short memories. I don’t think we will tbf but it’s bottom 6 for us this season).


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[madhatter]

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To the people who want Jack Ross out who do they suggest Hibs bring in?

A new person? Really confused at this question.

Are we really at the stage as a club that during a long run of bad form with dwindling support at ER contemplation among supporters about a new manager is thwarted by a "better the devil you know" type of thing? Are we genuinely expecting an Alex Ferguson moment with Jack Ross and the club? Club talk about stability and not having a 3rd place finish one season and then bottom 6 the next. Talk is cheap and, evidently, unless we somehow go on a complete stormer thumping every team we will struggle to avoid what now seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Jack Ross is not solely to blame for this. However, if club have the drive and confidence to get rid of Graeme Mathie then Jack Ross shouldn't be untouchable. On that note, club got rid of Graeme Mathie, did we all question the club on who they suggested came in to replace? Who has replaced him?

[Nicho87]

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Who do you bring in.

Alex Neil

[GreenCastle]

He 100% won’t be going anywhere before the cup final.

The derby could be interesting to see how we handle that.

[Since452]

What a refreshing thread this is. No daft arguments just a good debate. Well done the OP.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Whether the players stopped playing for Ross or not is irrelevant. The similarities between the 2 seasons are clear. We’re on our worst run of form since that season. If you think JR can turn it around fair enough but I’ve a sinking feeling in my stomach that says you’re wrong (people saying we’re too good to get relegated have short memories. I don’t think we will tbf but it’s bottom 6 for us this season).


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No similarities at all. That fact you've not mentioned any tells me that.

You genuinely did not watch that hopeless team if you think this is the same.

[Jim44]

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I think people have forgotten what a bad Hibs team is actually like. This isn't it. Very unlucky today.

This is the most telling sentence I’ve read here for several weeks.

[GreenCastle]

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I think people have forgotten what a bad Hibs team is actually like. This isn't it. Very unlucky today.

I just think people have raised expectations and why not.

Some still remember the awful football with Butcher etc but keeping it in perspective we should be doing better with the resources and after last season.

Having not pushed on means frustration and feels like we are going backwards and others forwards.

I’m not for changing the manager but I definitely think we need improved players.

[BlackSheep]

I’m definitely in the camp that doesn’t see any real reason to change manager.

I actually think Ross is doing a good job, but the squad is missing a couple of key players and competition for first team places.

I hope Mueller hits the ground running and perhaps adds a finishing touch to our attacking play… which generally is where I feel we seem to be underperforming, not creating clear cut chance or finishing off the few we do!

Today showed exactly that… good crosses and attacking play with no one finishing them off, I mean 2 off the line and 1 smashed off the bar. A bit of luck would help but you can’t bank on luck!

I’m happy to give JR more time.

[Northernhibee]

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It appears that a vocal minority want JR out immediately. The majority, while disappointed, are willing to stick by him for the foreseeable future. I think RG will stick by him. I honestly think that if we got a new guy in now, we might move upwards but are equally, if not more likely to sink even further. A new manager now would be a gamble. I think we should stick by him and see how things pan out in the second half of the season. If we continue to drift downwards, while I don’t think there is the remotest chance of a relegation struggle, I would support the case for a change for next season.

It’s not a vocal minority, you’ll find that I’ve been supportive of JR up to last month.

Going by attendances it’s not hysteria, it’s not anger but a large chunk of the support has absolute apathy which is the most difficult to appease.

[One Day Soon]

My previous position on this was pretty much not fussed if he stays and not fussed if he goes. The fact that I'm now trying to work out what looks like it is improving or on an upward trend under JR probably moves me substantially towards 'this isn't working'.

Our league form is terrible.
Our performances seem to range between awful on the one hand and adequate and promising on the other without actually improving particularly.
Our squad remains frustratingly full of potentially decent players who largely seem to consistently under perform.
Our tactics look questionable (particularly substitutions) and we definitely seem risk averse in our match day approach.
The squad is imbalanced - we have nowhere near enough pace and we massively over rely on Boyle up front.
The quality of football we play seems to reflect the manager's public persona; unexciting, passionless and generally a bit insipid.
We are prone to very costly self-inflicted defensive mistakes.
I don't see a recognisable captain figure on the park.
ER is the opposite of a fortress.
The atmosphere and numbers at ER are now very tepid - partly the fault of Covid and winter but mostly, I think, due to our results and our performances

He's had two years in charge and four transfer windows so far to develop his squad and playing style. I'm not sure I can see a clearl plan in action in terms of the squad and the playing style he is looking for.

If we lose the cup final we will likely be in the position of having very little to show for this season other than a good cup run. And that is in a league which contains mostly indifferent teams.

I'm left asking the question, 'what is the Jack Ross plan for transforming our squad and playing style from here and what has he put in the goodwill bank in the two years he's had so far to make us think this is going somewhere?'

[Allant1981]

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Quite simple now

Ross must go

Dont think you have mentioned it before now

[Sir David Gray]

Lose the cup final, the derby and less than 10 points from our remaining matches between now and the derby and I think he should go.

[Heisenberg]

I think he’s pretty much nailed on to get the January window to try and sort it. Only way I can see that changing is if he doesn’t get another win between now and then.

[WhileTheChief..]

Whilst we might not be a bad team, we are in the middle of a disastrous run of results that even our worst managers probably never endured.

I still don’t really blame JR though. We’re just back to being a nice comfy club to come play football. There’s no real pressure on anyone to perform.

The recent extended contracts for players just means more of the same for another couple of seasons.

[FitbaFolkKen]

I thought Motherwell scored when we were at our strongest, we also had 2/3 blatant chances that we squandered.

Ross isn’t daft, I think we give him January to see how the squad shapes up without Mathies influence and then that’ll give us a clear indicator whether he is the guy or not.

Away from current form he is clearly an intelligent guy and I suspect that whether or not he finishes in failure or is poached from Easter Road he will have success elsewhere.

Edit - As an aside we’ve had some shocking managers in the past, my opinion is we should trust someone with their head screwed on to pick things up again.

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[MWHIBBIES]

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Lose the cup final, the derby and less than 10 points from our remaining matches between now and the derby and I think he should go.

Yes, if we lose loads more games he'll probably go. Like any manager

[Since452]

We had a very poor summer window then had injuries to key players all at once which showed that up. The Covid outbreak has just compounded matters. I think Ross has been very unlucky with all that. Mentioned earlier that I think this could be a season of two halves. I can see us being very strong after the winter break with the new faces and the likes of Magennis back, Doidge up to speed etc. This might come back to haunt me but I think we're going to hand someone a heavy beating very soon.

[Northernhibee]

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Yes, if we lose loads more games he'll probably go. Like any manager

I don’t think he has loads more losses in the bank. We have to start winning now.

[PolmontHibby]

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Please don't compare Ross with butcher. If you think they are anything alike, or this team is anything like the one that went down you simply did not watch Hibs then.

Correct - Butcher/Malpas was a masterclass in how not to manage a team - we are nowhere near that in my view (though the St Mirren/Allan saga was very poor, as was Watford/Doig for different reasons).

[LeithMike]

I don't think mid-season is a time to change manager unless you are desperate in need of turnaround - which we aren't. Sometimes you get a new manager bounce but often you don't.

Let's wait until the end of the season. I'm not his biggest fan but JR has earned until the end of the season unless we get in relegation trouble.

Who also would we get? There is no obvious candidate. I wouldn't mind McInnes but he would split the support and most probably dont want him.

We are starting to look a bit better again (although only played in bursts today). Nisbet, in particular, looking a lot more interested. I though today was the perfect game to start Scott Allan though.

Again, what's letting us down is the midfield. We aren't able to control the game and the balance just isn't right yet.

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[Hibernia&Alba]

I'm happy to give him a bit more time, as I think he's earned that right. That said, our form is terrible, which can't continue indefinitely. Four points from twenty-four isn't sustainable for any manager. The next three league games are huge for the manager: Livi, St Mirren and Dundee are teams we should be beating. If we don't win any of those, I don't see how he survives.

[Sir David Gray]

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Yes, if we lose loads more games he'll probably go. Like any manager

Absolutely.

However I don't think he would (or necessarily should) go if we got the run of results I outlined above but we were currently sitting clear in 3rd place.

We're not though, we're in a real slump in the league and it is becoming quite alarming. A continuation of that slump over the next month should probably see him replaced.

[MWHIBBIES]

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I don’t think he has loads more losses in the bank. We have to start winning now.

We didn't lose today you know?