What iconic football moments would have been changed by VAR?

***tamig*** · 19-04-2019 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Smartie

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We got a ridiculous goal allowed that didn't cross the line in a big relegation game against Dunfermline iirc under Calderwood (Hanlon scored).

We ended up pumping them in a comfortable win, but it was made far more comfortable by that goal being allowed at that stage in the game.

Exactly. You can’t just remove the dodgy goal and say the game would have ended 3-0 with any certainty. Although gloryhunter might disagree. I’m sure that game was 4-0 and Matt Doherty scored the opener.

**we are hibs** · 19-04-2019 05:15 PM

[QUOTE=gloryhunter;5767663]

Originally Posted by greiggy

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1966 World Cup final

Only if you are ABE.
VAR would certainly have allowed the other 3 goals so no change in the actual result. VAR would have cancelled the "hand of God" so think you are on the wrong track here.

"Hand of god" when the ball blatantly hit his head and went in?

**Broken Gnome** · 19-04-2019 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by tamig

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Exactly. You can’t just remove the dodgy goal and say the game would have ended 3-0 with any certainty. Although gloryhunter might disagree. I’m sure that game was 4-0 and Matt Doherty scored the opener.

I don't say literally lightly, but that might literally be the one outstanding occasion that the dodgy goal could have been removed and it wouldn't have made a blind bit of difference.

**SChibs** · 19-04-2019 05:27 PM

Originally Posted by tamig

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Explain. A team scored 4 goals but had the 3rd been disallowed there is every chance the game would have taken a different course. You can’t just strike the disputed goal off the final score and claim as fact that that’s the end of the story. You are making an assumption yourself.

Yup. People talk about Oli Shaws goal as if it robbed us of a victory. The whole game would have been different and as far as I remember it happened pretty early in the game

***CockneyRebel*** · 19-04-2019 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by tamig

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Explain. A team scored 4 goals but had the 3rd been disallowed there is every chance the game would have taken a different course. You can’t just strike the disputed goal off the final score and claim as fact that that’s the end of the story. You are making an assumption yourself.

FFS you keep proving my point. We are both making assumptions. I made the assumption that England would have won 3 - 2 anyway. You made the assumption that the game would have panned out differently without that goal. The game can't get replayed and NOBODY (not me, not you, NOBODY) knows how the game would have gone if the goal had been chalked off.

Some say the "hand of God" goal evened things out (against England yeah but didn't do Germany much good so not really even) but that was blatant cheating and a different subject entirely.

My main point/thrust was objecting to folk using terms such as assume, probably, not necessarily, and the like and then indicating that it proved a point

**hibee62** · 19-04-2019 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by tamig

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Its a very valid point. As the guy mentioned, the fourth goal was a breakaway when the Germans were pushing for an equaliser. At 2-2 its a fair assumption that situation wouldn’t have happened. In my opinion.

In the interests of fairness, roles were reversed in 2010. England goal disallowed on the stroke of half time (a couple of feet over the line) which would have made it 2-2. Second half: the Germans picked England off at will for 4-1.

***CockneyRebel*** · 19-04-2019 05:46 PM

Originally Posted by tamig

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Exactly. You can’t just remove the dodgy goal and say the game would have ended 3-0 with any certainty. Although gloryhunter might disagree. I’m sure that game was 4-0 and Matt Doherty scored the opener.

I agree wholeheartedly that taking away or awarding a goal/penalty would and does change a game but not necessarily the result (I agree that it would in many or even most cases but nobody knows for sure). You can take a good guess or make a viable assumption but it doesn't prove anything one way or another.

**Onceinawhile** · 19-04-2019 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Smartie

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We got a ridiculous goal allowed that didn't cross the line in a big relegation game against Dunfermline iirc under Calderwood (Hanlon scored).

We ended up pumping them in a comfortable win, but it was made far more comfortable by that goal being allowed at that stage in the game.

That was the 4th in a 4 nil win was it not?

***BILLYHIBS*** · 19-04-2019 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by SChibs

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Yup. People talk about Oli Shaws goal as if it robbed us of a victory. The whole game would have been different and as far as I remember it happened pretty early in the game

Might have done wonders for his career confidence wise if allowed to stand

Perfectly legitimate goal

Every chance we would have gone on to win the game

Robbed again at the PBS

***tamig*** · 19-04-2019 06:43 PM

Originally Posted by gloryhunter

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I agree wholeheartedly that taking away or awarding a goal/penalty would and does change a game but not necessarily the result (I agree that it would in many or even most cases but nobody knows for sure). You can take a good guess or make a viable assumption but it doesn't prove anything one way or another.

I don’t think anyone was claiming anything around the certainty of the outcome. You dismissed the guys point as if it was invalid. You are now saying none of us know how things would have panned out. We are agreed on that point. Nobody knows but it could have resulted in a different outcome. The gist of it is that none of us can give a definitive answer to the OP. The answer is that some outcomes may have been different had VAR been around. Fair enough?

hfc rd · 19-04-2019 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

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That was the 4th in a 4 nil win was it not?

Yes. I’m sure were something like 3-0 up in the first 25 mins or something?

I remember we had a massive crowd that night as well.

**green with envy** · 19-04-2019 08:08 PM

Fletcher's goal for Sheffield Wednesday 10 minutes ago would easily have been chalked off.

***wookie70*** · 19-04-2019 08:14 PM

Colin Campbell 1979 stonewall pen in Cup Final

***One Day Soon*** · 19-04-2019 08:26 PM

Sorry to harp on about this yet again, but Italy v South Korea in the 2002 World Cup. VAR would have disabled the effect of the bribery which clearly took place and the absolutely scandalous refereeing that rigged the match.

Cheating Ecuadorian ***t, Byron Moreno, would have been found out there and then. Instead we had to wait for his suspension for match fixing back home in Ecuador later that year to find out what he was really all about.

**Smartie** · 19-04-2019 09:12 PM

Originally Posted by Onceinawhile

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That was the 4th in a 4 nil win was it not?

I had it in my mind that it was the third but I could be wrong.

I remember feeling that Hibs were quite comfortable when we were given it, and thinking that it would have been very controversial in a closer game.

***eastterrace*** · 19-04-2019 09:17 PM

Yes

Originally Posted by Smartie

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I had it in my mind that it was the third but I could be wrong.

I remember feeling that Hibs were quite comfortable when we were given it, and thinking that it would have been very controversial in a closer game.

sure it was the fourth goal so not really make much difference as Dunfermline were gash.

**Onceinawhile** · 19-04-2019 09:18 PM

3 up after 15 minutes.

Hanlon got the 4th.

**007** · 19-04-2019 09:22 PM

Buchwald's dive and play-acting to get Gazza booked in the semi at Italia '90. Buchwald should have been booked not Gazza.

**~~Hibeesmad~~** · 19-04-2019 09:50 PM

Not sure if it has been mentioned already but the Falkirk handball at ER in the play offs

***Bostonhibby*** · 19-04-2019 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by SChibs

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Yup. People talk about Oli Shaws goal as if it robbed us of a victory. The whole game would have been different and as far as I remember it happened pretty early in the game

Try as I might I'm still comfortable with the idea that the thieves got lucky again, this time at the expense of a terrific young player.

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***JimBHibees*** · 21-04-2019 08:11 AM

Originally Posted by 007

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Buchwald's dive and play-acting to get Gazza booked in the semi at Italia '90. Buchwald should have been booked not Gazza.

Didn't really change the outcome though did it. Actually think it was a yellow but no doubt he exaggerated it hugely. That World Cup was one of the worst for play acting.

***allezsauzee*** · 21-04-2019 08:54 AM

Originally Posted by Hibeesmad

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Not sure if it has been mentioned already but the Falkirk handball at ER in the play offs

I'm not convinced with this one, it was such an obvious penalty that the only conclusion I can come to is that the officials didn't want to see it. Similarly at Ibrox when Lee McCulloch (i think) dragged the ball away from a Hibs player in the box with his arm.

***Pagan Hibernia*** · 21-04-2019 09:03 AM

Germany’s winning penalty against Argentina in the Italia 90 Final.

invisible foul on Rudi Voller. Denying Maradona a second world cup

***danhibees1875*** · 21-04-2019 09:27 AM

Originally Posted by Easter Rising

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Germany’s winning penalty against Argentina in the Italia 90 Final.

invisible foul on Rudi Voller. Denying Maradona a second world cup

So England cheated Germany, Argentina cheated England, and Germany cheated Argentina - all evens itself out over a decade or two.

I find it increasingly difficult to argue against having the best quality information available to referees to make the right decisions. But the illogical part of me still likes the levels of controversy that come from judgement and human error within football.

***Bristolhibby*** · 21-04-2019 09:32 AM

Originally Posted by danhibees1875

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So England cheated Germany, Argentina cheated England, and Germany cheated Argentina - all evens itself out over a decade or two.

I find it increasingly difficult to argue against having the best quality information available to referees to make the right decisions. But the illogical part of me still likes the levels of controversy that come from judgement and human error within football.

There is still controversy with VAR. however that’s because people don’t know the laws, it’s relative newness and novelty.

In 20 years we will look back and wonder WTF we did without VAR and goal line technology. (Neither of which we currently have in Scotland at the moment).

J

**iwasthere1972** · 21-04-2019 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Smartie

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We got a ridiculous goal allowed that didn't cross the line in a big relegation game against Dunfermline iirc under Calderwood (Hanlon scored).

We ended up pumping them in a comfortable win, but it was made far more comfortable by that goal being allowed at that stage in the game.

Pretty sure that Pat Fenlon was the manager that night. Crowd numbers were swelled to some extent as your ticket that night was put in a big hat and if you were unlucky enough you had a chance of buying tickets for the Scottish Cup Final later that month. My ticket was pulled out the hat.

It was a rainy night but remember singing Sunshine on Leith at the final whistle. It was a great night and a huge relief to avoid relegation.

***HiBremian*** · 21-04-2019 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Bostonhibby

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Would using it in the toilets at dens park in 1986 have been allowed?

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**** me. Am I not alone in having this memory of pishing up against a wall at that cup semi against the sheep?

***Bostonhibby*** · 21-04-2019 10:56 AM

Originally Posted by HiBremian

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**** me. Am I not alone in having this memory of pishing up against a wall at that cup semi against the sheep?

That brought a few panic stricken memories back. We went up in a mini bus and were stuck in traffic for ages. Missed the first ten minutes or so of the game. Another day of disaster following Hibs.

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