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  1. #1

    Notre Dame Cathedral

    Huge fire broke out and the main spire has collapsed.

    Really, really sad site as it's a beautiful building.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47941794


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    @hibs.net private member Jack Hackett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Huge fire broke out and the main spire has collapsed.

    Really, really sad site as it's a beautiful building.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-47941794
    Really sad... Genuinely iconic building. They'll fix it though. There's a lot of experience around making these disasters look good as new. We just won't be seeing it for a few years

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    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    It's live on a couple of channels here. There's nothing left of the roof.

    It looks like it'll be totally gutted.

    Macron was due to give an important statement on TV tonight (announcing what's to be changed after the yellow vest protests) but this has now been postponed.

  5. #4
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Sad to hear as it is a genuinely iconic place. As has been said, it will be recreated. To be honest, I always preferred Sacre Couer at Montmartre, but hopefully the emergency services can do their best and limit the damage.
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    Awful news but there must be a joke in there somewhere.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Sad to hear as it is a genuinely iconic place. As has been said, it will be recreated. To be honest, I always preferred Sacre Couer at Montmartre, but hopefully the emergency services can do their best and limit the damage.
    Sacre Couer is a beautiful church as well. I visited on a school trip years ago after we had spent a few days visiting the WWI battlefields. The artwork above the main altar is spectacular.
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    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    Sad to hear as it is a genuinely iconic place. As has been said, it will be recreated. To be honest, I always preferred Sacre Couer at Montmartre, but hopefully the emergency services can do their best and limit the damage.
    The timber roof structure, which is now gone, dated from the 13th century. Even if the eventual replacement is 100% true to the original, there won't be same sense of history.

    I'd be surprised if the stone structure isn't goosed too.

  9. #8
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    I proposed to Mrs R in Paris and I've been several times.

    This is a tragedy, not for the same reasons as the Twin Towers, but on a similar scale.

    It's incredible and very, very sad.
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  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Sacre Couer is a beautiful church as well. I visited on a school trip years ago after we had spent a few days visiting the WWI battlefields. The artwork above the main altar is spectacular.


    There's a beauty to Sacre Couer that isn't the same as Notre Dame, as stunning as it is (was).
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    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    The first time I spent any time in Paris (apart from changing trains/planes), there were three of us flown across from Edinburgh to play at a Scottish night thing in the Southern suburbs of Paris. That was the Saturday night and we had the Sunday free so the organisers drove us to the middle of Paris and left us to do what we wanted.

    We were dropped off right outside Notre Dame and instead of heading straight for a drink (which would ordinarily have been top of the list of things to do - anywhere), we spent a fair bit of time exploring the cathedral, inside and out.

    Since then Notre Dame is the first image that comes to my mind when somebody talks about Paris.

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    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    The timber roof structure, which is now gone, dated from the 13th century. Even if the eventual replacement is 100% true to the original, there won't be same sense of history.

    I'd be surprised if the stone structure isn't goosed too.
    You will know a lot better than me, given your line of work. It is saddening to lose such history, especially if as it seems, it is some sort of accident arising from the renovation work.
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    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    You will know a lot better than me, given your line of work. It is saddening to lose such history, especially if as it seems, it is some sort of accident arising from the renovation work.
    Apart from the craftsmanship and design/innovation, it's the combination of scale and age of these places that impresses me most. It's almost beyond belief that people were capable of doing that stuff 800 years ago. A modern, even perfect, replica won't have the same effect (for me in any case).

    I'd imagine there'll be a few tradesmen posing themselves questions tonight while keeching their (French) knickers.

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    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    That's excellent. He's been far more informative than any of the French news channels to date.

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    @hibs.net private member Bristolhibby's Avatar
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    So so sad.

    J

  16. #16
    Coaching Staff heretoday's Avatar
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    I wonder if they will rebuid it . It would be like the old style French to peut-etre not.

    But I suppose the contemporary regime will want to rebuild.

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    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    Apart from the craftsmanship and design/innovation, it's the combination of scale and age of these places that impresses me most. It's almost beyond belief that people were capable of doing that stuff 800 years ago. A modern, even perfect, replica won't have the same effect (for me in any case).

    I'd imagine there'll be a few tradesmen posing themselves questions tonight while keeching their (French) knickers.
    I've been reading a book about architecture recently, that focuses a lot on the churches and cathedrals along the Routes of Santiago de Compostela. I'm dwelling on whether to do the route.

    My favourite is Saint-Sernin in Toulouse. Apart from it being very finely Romanesque, which I love, it is incredible to think it was built nearly a thousand years ago. The vaulted ceilings are gorgeous, but as you say, the sheer work that was required to do what they did is almost beyond comprehension
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  18. #18
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by heretoday View Post
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    I wonder if they will rebuid it . It would be like the old style French to peut-etre not.

    But I suppose the contemporary regime will want to rebuild.
    The vast majority of church buildings (and I suspect all RC churches) are owned by the state and not the church(es).

    No politician seriously looking to be elected/re-elected President will back anything other than a total rebuild.

    Even my staunchest, atheist Breton pals (who see France as their nearest neighbour) are gutted by this. My elder daughter (14) is pretty distraught. She's a real history buff and visited Paris, including Notre Dame, with her school less than a month ago.
    Last edited by Peevemor; 15-04-2019 at 08:32 PM.

  19. #19
    I was in Paris just 2 weeks ago and spent time there. Absolutely devastating news.

  20. #20
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mibbes Aye View Post
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    I've been reading a book about architecture recently, that focuses a lot on the churches and cathedrals along the Routes of Santiago de Compostela. I'm dwelling on whether to do the route.

    My favourite is Saint-Sernin in Toulouse. Apart from it being very finely Romanesque, which I love, it is incredible to think it was built nearly a thousand years ago. The vaulted ceilings are gorgeous, is but as you say, the sheer work that was required to do what they did is almost beyond comprehension
    It's not on the route (but it's only an hours drive from Chateau Peeve), but the Abbey on Mont St-Michel is amazing. In the lower sections which date from the 10th century, you can see some of the stone vaults are a bit wonky. They're not quite symmetric and things don't join/meet as they should.

    They were learning and experimenting and you can see the build quality improving as they progressed.

    I love that stuff.

  21. #21
    @hibs.net private member Jack Hackett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    That's excellent. He's been far more informative than any of the French news channels to date.
    Absolutely. Highlights the scale and impact of the disaster. Makes my 'they can rebuild' comment earlier sound a bit glib and clueless... which it was in hindsight

  22. #22
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    They've just shown an aerial photo on the tv. It's brutal - a large central part of the vault has collapsed (possibly when the central spire fell).

    It's from a drone transmitting to the firemen.

    D4OAr8_X4AAdCMD.jpg

  23. #23
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peevemor View Post
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    It's not on the route (but it's only an hours drive from Chateau Peeve), but the Abbey on Mont St-Michel is amazing. In the lower sections which date from the 10th century, you can see some of the stone vaults are a bit wonky. They're not quite symmetric and things don't join/meet as they should.

    They were learning and experimenting and you can see the build quality improving as they progressed.

    I love that stuff.
    Mont-St-Michel looks outstanding. I would love to visit it and have a hankering to a road trip that maybe starts in Normandy and either works its way down to the Languedoc or alternatively into the Basque country and San Sebastian and Bilbao.

    There is a real beauty to the churches that were built in the 10-12th centuries, which were very much at the sheer limits of knowledge and understanding. That so many of them worked and lasted is incredible testament to the skills and expertise of the architects and builders. It's not my area of expertise but I can recognise that to build something like that today would involve precise and specialist machinery, no doubt based on expensive computer software. But craftsmen and builders did this a thousand years ago manually.
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  24. #24
    @hibs.net private member Jim44's Avatar
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    A tragic loss, very much on the same level as the Glasgow School of Art devastation, albeit an older and possibly more internationally known icon. In some respects the CRM building, as a relatively modern building, is restorable but how do you restore a building from an entirely different era?

  25. #25
    Trump suggested 'Flying Water Tankers' would be able to put it out quickest.

    You literially couldn't spoof that man.

  26. #26
    @hibs.net private member Peevemor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callyballybe View Post
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    Trump suggested 'Flying Water Tankers' would be able to put it out quickest.

    You literially couldn't spoof that man.
    Yeah Donald, send low flying aircraft into a city certain to dump hundreds of tons of water into an already weakened structure...

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    Apart from the religious significance of the cathedral, Notre-Dame is central to the French national spirit. The bells of Notre-Dame rang out to announce the Liberation.

    Iím sure it will be rebuilt. Anyone of my age will have seen pictures Amiens, Ypres and many more towns rebuilt after the Great War.

    Luckily, itís not over here, or we could see another St James Centre built on the site.

  28. #28
    Testimonial Due Just Jimmy's Avatar
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    absolutely devastating. I've never been but I'm gutted that when I finally do, it'll be a regenerated version. an awful awful loss.

    a sad sad day. my thoughts are with my fellow Emergency service workers who will be battling throughout the night, as well as with the French people.

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  29. #29
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    I don't think you need to ever have been there to appreciate what a cultural tragedy this is, one of the worlds most iconic buildings like the Taj Mahal or dare I say Edinburgh castle.

    I have no doubt the French will rebuild it stone by stone, but what artworks have been lost that can be replicated but never replaced? Ö. Tragic.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    I don't think you need to ever have been there to appreciate what a cultural tragedy this is, one of the worlds most iconic buildings like the Taj Mahal or dare I say Edinburgh castle.

    I have no doubt the French will rebuild it stone by stone, but what artworks have been lost that can be replicated but never replaced? Ö. Tragic.
    Apparently a lot of the artifacts have been put into storage because of the renovation work that was going on. I'm sure some must have been lost though.

    I've been lucky enough to visit it twice. I'm sure it will be restored in a proper manner.

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