What can we do?

[Onion]

Ok here's a idea. Anyone who went to the Scottish Cup game at Ibrox about 10 years ago where we won 3-0 (one of my favourites matches) will recall just how utterly irate the Huns got when Hibs fans started singing "We are the Peepul". They went spare.

Aberdeen fans took ironic ownership of "sheep ****ging *******s" a while back to good effect :) No opposing fans now sing that stuff.

We can render the Sevco bigots impotent and meaningless by singing their songs back at them (using the very same irony that Dons fans are so good at deploying). Something that fans can do, without need for politicians, authorities or weak clubs. Kill the problem and wind up the Huns in the process. What's not to like

[Ozyhibby]

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Ok here's a idea. Anyone who went to the Scottish Cup game at Ibrox about 10 years ago where we won 3-0 (one of my favourites matches) will recall just how utterly irate the Huns got when Hibs fans started singing "We are the Peepul". They went spare.

Aberdeen fans took ironic ownership of "sheep ****ging *******s" a while back to good effect :) No opposing fans now sing that stuff.

We can render the Sevco bigots impotent and meaningless by singing their songs back at them (using the very same irony that Dons fans are so good at deploying). Something that fans can do, without need for politicians, authorities or weak clubs. Kill the problem and wind up the Huns in the process. What's not to like

You want Hibs fans to sing about being up to their knees in Fenian blood?


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[Onion]

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You want Hibs fans to sing about being up to their knees in Fenian blood?


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Erm, do you really think Aberdeen fans **** sheep because they say they do or we thought "we arra peepul" because we sang about it ? Nope, with a bit a creative irony might be able to come up with something a bit less graphic which shows the Huns up for what they are ... bigoted Neanderthals.

[WeeRussell]

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Ok here's a idea. Anyone who went to the Scottish Cup game at Ibrox about 10 years ago where we won 3-0 (one of my favourites matches) will recall just how utterly irate the Huns got when Hibs fans started singing "We are the Peepul". They went spare.

Aberdeen fans took ironic ownership of "sheep ****ging *******s" a while back to good effect :) No opposing fans now sing that stuff.

We can render the Sevco bigots impotent and meaningless by singing their songs back at them (using the very same irony that Dons fans are so good at deploying). Something that fans can do, without need for politicians, authorities or weak clubs. Kill the problem and wind up the Huns in the process. What's not to like

Apart from anything else I can't see how this will kill the problem? It may drown out one or two of their songs when they start, but bigots will remain bigots?

[Since90+2]

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Erm, do you really think Aberdeen fans **** sheep because they say they do or we thought "we arra peepul" because we sang about it ? Nope, with a bit a creative irony might be able to come up with something a bit less graphic which shows the Huns up for what they are ... bigoted Neanderthals.

What are you suggesting we sing at them apart from we are the people?

[matty_f]

I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.

[WhileTheChief..]

It’s not even a social issue.

Religion plays no part in your ability to get a job, an education, a fair trial or anything else these days.

It’s sticks and stones stuff at the football. Nothing else.

[Moulin Yarns]

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Erm, do you really think Aberdeen fans **** sheep because they say they do or we thought "we arra peepul" because we sang about it ? Nope, with a bit a creative irony might be able to come up with something a bit less graphic which shows the Huns up for what they are ... bigoted Neanderthals.

We're up to our knees in woolly socks??

Suspenders on our thighs??

We are the Hibee fashion police

[Smartie]

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I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.

Why do you think the sectarian issue - which also existed in cities throughout England in the late 19th and early 20th centuries - died off everywhere else yet has continued to thrive in Scotland to the present day?

There are massive overlaps between football, religion/ sectarianism, politics and national identity that cannot be denied.

The Old Firm are a blight on Scottish society.

[Smartie]

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It’s not even a social issue.

Religion plays no part in your ability to get a job, an education, a fair trial or anything else these days.

It’s sticks and stones stuff at the football. Nothing else.

The victims of the violence that exists following every Old Firm match might disagree that it is all "sticks and stones" stuff.

I know that the hospital staff who wait for the football fixtures to be announced before immediately requesting leave around Old Firm games would.

[JeMeSouviens]

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Erm, do you really think Aberdeen fans **** sheep because they say they do or we thought "we arra peepul" because we sang about it ? Nope, with a bit a creative irony might be able to come up with something a bit less graphic which shows the Huns up for what they are ... bigoted Neanderthals.

"Sing when we're transubtantiating, we only sing when we're transubstantiating ..."

Ok, it's a bit niche, I admit.

[Moulin Yarns]

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"Sing when we're transubtantiating, we only sing when we're transubstantiating ..."

Ok, it's a bit niche, I admit.

or

sing when you're bigots, You only sing when you're bigots

[WhileTheChief..]

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The victims of the violence that exists following every Old Firm match might disagree that it is all "sticks and stones" stuff.

I know that the hospital staff who wait for the football fixtures to be announced before immediately requesting leave around Old Firm games would.

I’d imagine that more to do with alcohol than anything else.

[The Harp Awakes]

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I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.

Ah that old chestnut. Do away with the minority or minority choice and all will be well. There's a good few dictators and demagogues over the years tried that and failed.

There's the same proportion of Catholic schools in England and there is no issue there with religious bigotry. As others have said, the problem is primarily focused around 2 football clubs in the West. Take them to task and it will go a long way to fixing the wider social issue.

[One Day Soon]

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"Sing when we're transubtantiating, we only sing when we're transubstantiating ..."

Ok, it's a bit niche, I admit.

That's outstanding. May have to hum that one to myself at Mass on Sunday.

[NAE NOOKIE]

In my opinion the sectarian divide driven by religion in Scotland is all style and no substance.

What passes for Protestantism in this country is a hollow shell of the past, even people who would tick Protestant on a census form are a thousand miles away from the church going anti church of Rome zealots of pre 1970s Scotland. The chances that you will actively be discriminated against because you are a Catholic are probably slimmer than they have ever been .... in fact the only place you could point to it and be sure you have hit a bullseye is in the act of union which actively and unashamedly discriminates against Catholics.

Its incredible that the very cornerstones of the establishment which castigates the general public for acts of discrimination and sectarianism, politicians, the police the judiciary swear allegiance to a system which has bigotry and sectarianism at its very heart. The irony and stupefying hypocrisy of them allowing this state of affairs to exist, and continue to exist, and all the while railing against sectarianism for want of a better phrase 'beggars belief'

What the previously active and rampant divisions based on true religious bigotry have left as their legacy is two sides whose most vocal adherents are on the side of either pro or anti unionism … its dressed in a veneer of religion, but that's not the main driving force any more because next to none of the protagonists could prove in a court of law that they are in the slightest truly religious.

That of course doesn't make the effects any better. I don't know about Northern Ireland, but certainly in Scotland its become all about loyalty or not to the UK and whether or not Northern Ireland and now of course Scotland should remain a part of it. The defense of Protestantism angle which drove the Rangers side in the beginning is now very much unionism driven by 'Britishness' and loyalty to 'the crown' …. the adherence to and defence of those things because they were the bastions of Protestantism no longer matters … these things in themselves have now become the cause.

That's why more than any other institution in Scotland outside of the Orange Lodge and the Tory Party folk who follow The Rangers ( not all of them as the 2014 Glasgow voting clearly showed ) identify as unionists and proport to hate the SNP and the Scottish independence movement in general .. even though there isn't a shred of evidence to show that the movement for Scottish self determination is in any way driven by religion of any sort. Proof if it were needed that todays sectarianism is driven by unionists and royalists, not religious zealotry.

And breathe

[matty_f]

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Ah that old chestnut. Do away with the minority or minority choice and all will be well. There's a good few dictators and demagogues over the years tried that and failed.

There's the same proportion of Catholic schools in England and there is no issue there with religious bigotry. As others have said, the problem is primarily focused around 2 football clubs in the West. Take them to task and it will go a long way to fixing the wider social issue.

It's not to do with taking away the choice but increasing the inclusion and education across the board.

These kids can still be taught about Catholicism and associated values along with the other kids - education is key to it.

[ian cruise]

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or

sing when you're bigots, You only sing when you're bigots

I think that's the best approach. Sing louder than them whether home or away and have a few songs, without any sectarian language, that point out how sad they really are with their songs acting like a comfort blanket. It's stop as soon as it's very obvious everyone is laughing at them instead of reacting to them (I include Celtic, hearts and anyone else singing sectarian songs/using sectarian language).

[Paisley Hibby]

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or

sing when you're bigots, You only sing when you're bigots

Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner.

[WeeRussell]

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It’s not even a social issue.

Religion plays no part in your ability to get a job, an education, a fair trial or anything else these days.

It’s sticks and stones stuff at the football. Nothing else.

Neither does race or sexuality. Should we just give that the okay for abuse at football too?

[Smartie]

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I’d imagine that more to do with alcohol than anything else.

It's that heady mix of Scottish blood, alcohol and hatred.

The first two happen every weekend, not without incident, but it goes off the scale whenever the Old Firm match is thrown in.

[Ozyhibby]

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I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.

We could do away with Catholics totally and make everyone the same.


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[hibbyfraelibby]

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We're up to our knees in woolly socks??

Suspenders on our thighs??

We are the Hibee fashion police

Hello, Hello how are you Silly Boys?
Hello, Hello we'll know youse by your toys
You re up to your eyes in Action Men
Barbie Dolls and Ken
For you are the silly billy boys

[Scouse Hibee]

We don’t sing offensive songs
We don’t sing offensive songs
We’re better than you
We don’t sing offensive songs

[matty_f]

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We could do away with Catholics totally and make everyone the same.


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I'm all for it, do away with all religion - load of baloney anyway, imho.

[bigwheel]

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I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.

Or How about we teach people to accept people as they are rather than doing away with schools who want a certain religious approach to learning ??

[The Harp Awakes]

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I'm all for it, do away with all religion - load of baloney anyway, imho.

Religionophobe alert. Where's all the Admins when you need them. Er, wait a minute................

[Bishop Hibee]

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I'm all for it, do away with all religion - load of baloney anyway, imho.

Celebrate diversity 🙄

[matty_f]

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Or How about we teach people to accept people as they are rather than doing away with schools who want a certain religious approach to learning ??

Yeah, that works as well.

My own opinion is that you'd see less sectarianism when people are together more. Perhaps made my point badly but what I was getting at was that instead of segregating schools, an inclusive system would be better.

The kids could still be taught religiously in an inclusive school - I didn't say the teaching needed to be different, but exposure to both on both sides of things would help improve understanding etc.

[matty_f]

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Celebrate diversity 🙄

I'm all for diversity, folk can believe in what they want - and by extension in allowed to think it's nonsense.