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  1. #91
    Administrator matty_f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Harp Awakes View Post
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    Religionophobe alert. Where's all the Admins when you need them. Er, wait a minute................


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  3. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    Yeah, that works as well.

    My own opinion is that you'd see less sectarianism when people are together more. Perhaps made my point badly but what I was getting at was that instead of segregating schools, an inclusive system would be better.

    The kids could still be taught religiously in an inclusive school - I didn't say the teaching needed to be different, but exposure to both on both sides of things would help improve understanding etc.
    Like the spirit of that. But ultimately feel that it’s minorities who are picked on ..catholic’s being one type..and addressing those attitudes is the real battle

  4. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigwheel View Post
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    Like the spirit of that. But ultimately feel that it’s minorities who are picked on ..catholic’s being one type..and addressing those attitudes is the real battle
    I probably made the point badly by calling out the Catholic schools as the one to do away with, so just for the avoidance of doubt it would be just as helpful to send non-Catholics to Catholic schools, the principle is that if you start inclusion early doors the kids are less likely to grow up seeing anyone different (and that goes across race as well as religion) and so acceptance rather than dear/hate grows.

    Channel 4 showed a program last night where an all-white class went into an all-Muslim class to learn together. It was a real eye opener for everyone.

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    @hibs.net private member Bishop Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    I'm all for diversity, folk can believe in what they want - and by extension in allowed to think it's nonsense.
    You didn’t say that though. You said you wanted to do away with religion. I don’t want to ‘do away’ with atheism. People should be free to believe what they want.
    "Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.' - Paulo Freire

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    Administrator matty_f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee View Post
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    You didn’t say that though. You said you wanted to do away with religion. I don’t want to ‘do away’ with atheism. People should be free to believe what they want.
    I said I'd do away with it, and I stand by that. I also think people can believe in what they want, it's their choice and if someone chooses to be religious then I can respect their faith.

    I'm not saying I'd do away with religious people, by the way - I'm not advocating genocide, just to be clear.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    I probably made the point badly by calling out the Catholic schools as the one to do away with, so just for the avoidance of doubt it would be just as helpful to send non-Catholics to Catholic schools, the principle is that if you start inclusion early doors the kids are less likely to grow up seeing anyone different (and that goes across race as well as religion) and so acceptance rather than dear/hate grows.

    Channel 4 showed a program last night where an all-white class went into an all-Muslim class to learn together. It was a real eye opener for everyone.
    Nowadays a large proportion of pupils at Catholic schools are not Catholic. In RE classes children are taught about all types of faith and not only Catholicism. Looks like you already have a large element of non denomination in schools already.

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    @hibs.net private member Bishop Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    I said I'd do away with it, and I stand by that. I also think people can believe in what they want, it's their choice and if someone chooses to be religious then I can respect their faith.

    I'm not saying I'd do away with religious people, by the way - I'm not advocating genocide, just to be clear.
    This doesn’t make sense.
    "Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.' - Paulo Freire

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    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    I'm not daft enough to think football can eradicate bigotry and sectarianism in Scotland, but they do have the ability to rid it from football.

    As soon as those songs are sung, there should be someone in the stands in contact with the ref, and he gets the ref to take the teams off.

    The clubs who are guilty are given a 3-0 defeat and thats the end of it.

    The rest of society can do what they like, but football has the tools to get rid of this problem in football grounds.

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    Administrator matty_f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee View Post
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    This doesn’t make sense.
    Makes sense to me. Personally I'd do away with religion (my opinion), it's not up to me and let's face it, you can't do away with something that deep rooted but I completely respect people's right to believe in something and have faith, that's their choice.

  11. #100
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    The simplest, easiest way to deal with this, is to not give tickets to Celtic or Rangers fans.

    Problem solved in one swift stroke.

    Ignore the league’s rules for once and make a stand. Dress it up as being against sectarianism or whatever you like.

    We take a financial hit but you never know, maybe we can fill the stand with everyone that stays away cause of the language.

    Also means no away days in Glasgow so it pretty much solves the loyalty point thing too!

    Genius.

  12. #101
    @hibs.net private member Bishop Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    Makes sense to me. Personally I'd do away with religion (my opinion), it's not up to me and let's face it, you can't do away with something that deep rooted but I completely respect people's right to believe in something and have faith, that's their choice.
    They’re trying to get rid of it in China. They’ve got a million Muslims in re education camps and tens of thousands of Christians in jail with churches demolished. This is the practical face of ‘doing away with religion’.

    Back to the OP, I’d like to see Hibs give clubs whose fans use ‘orange’ or ‘fenian’ as an insult inside Easter Road less tickets for the next game. If it continues, less and less until it stops or they have no fans.
    "Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.' - Paulo Freire

  13. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee View Post
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    They’re trying to get rid of it in China. They’ve got a million Muslims in re education camps and tens of thousands of Christians in jail with churches demolished. This is the practical face of ‘doing away with religion’.

    Back to the OP, I’d like to see Hibs give clubs whose fans use ‘orange’ or ‘fenian’ as an insult inside Easter Road less tickets for the next game. If it continues, less and less until it stops or they have no fans.
    That's a bit of a jump from what I was meaning to the point of being ridiculous. If you took that from my posts you've clearly misinterpreted them.

  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moulin Yarns View Post
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    We're up to our knees in woolly socks??

    Suspenders on our thighs??

    We are the Hibee fashion police

    Brilliant

  15. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    I'm not daft enough to think football can eradicate bigotry and sectarianism in Scotland, but they do have the ability to rid it from football.

    As soon as those songs are sung, there should be someone in the stands in contact with the ref, and he gets the ref to take the teams off.

    The clubs who are guilty are given a 3-0 defeat and thats the end of it.

    The rest of society can do what they like, but football has the tools to get rid of this problem in football grounds.
    Thats a great idea. The next time we are getting beat of hearts or the huns i can belt out The Sash and Hibs will be awarded a 3-0 victory.

  16. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Besties Debut View Post
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    Thats a great idea. The next time we are getting beat of hearts or the huns i can belt out The Sash and Hibs will be awarded a 3-0 victory.
    Aye because thats what will happen.

  17. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Besties Debut View Post
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    Thats a great idea. The next time we are getting beat of hearts or the huns i can belt out The Sash and Hibs will be awarded a 3-0 victory.
    It would only be for mass singing so unless you have 1000 equally daft mates then it won’t work.
    Strict liability should only be for incidents where there is mass singing not for single idiots running on pitch or throwing things. We have the law for dealing with that.


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  18. #107
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    It would only be for mass singing so unless you have 1000 equally daft mates then it won’t work.
    Strict liability should only be for incidents where there is mass singing not for single idiots running on pitch or throwing things. We have the law for dealing with that.


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    Not only that, i'm presuming he'd be belting out the sash in the hibs section of the ground, se we'd actually get the punishment for singing sectarian pish.

    I'm pretty sure he'd get a slap round the earhole if he was spouting that pish anywhere in the Hibs sections at easter road or at any away game.

  19. #108
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    The Sash does have a kinda catchy tune to it!

  20. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    The Sash does have a kinda catchy tune to it!
    Glad it's not just me 😉

    A good beat for striding out on a long walk.
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  21. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    I don't think football teams can fix the sectarian problem. It's a social issue, IMHO it would be a good starting point to do away with catholic schools and just have everyone going to the same schools (this may already be a thing), make life more inclusive early on and educate people.

    The old Chick Young / Derek Ferguson / Gordon Smith deflection tactic.... blame the Catholic Schools.

    Catholic schools exist in every mainland UK city- London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, Dundee, Aberdeen etc etc. Logic would suggest that if faith schools are an incubator for sectarianism these cities would experience football related and societal related sectarianism similar to Glasgow and west central Scotland.

    That patently isn't the case. Cities like Manchester and Liverpool with similar demographics to Glasgow had societal sectarianism in the 19th and into the 20th century but have moved on from those days so the question must be why hasn't Glasgow. In my view its the OF who are the incubator for a sectarianism which is now all about tribal labels rather than any actual religious beliefs.

    The other question to ask (and its probably one for the Holy Ground) is why faith schools remain so popular in essentially secular 21st century Scotland. Of course the ultimate irony is what keeps them viable is the large number of Protestants, Muslims, Sikhs, agnostics and even atheist parents who choose to send their children to them.

  22. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brizo View Post
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    The old Chick Young / Derek Ferguson / Gordon Smith deflection tactic.... blame the Catholic Schools.

    Catholic schools exist in every mainland UK city- London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, Dundee, Aberdeen etc etc. Logic would suggest that if faith schools are an incubator for sectarianism these cities would experience football related and societal related sectarianism similar to Glasgow and west central Scotland.

    That patently isn't the case. Cities like Manchester and Liverpool with similar demographics to Glasgow had societal sectarianism in the 19th and into the 20th century but have moved on from those days so the question must be why hasn't Glasgow. In my view its the OF who are the incubator for a sectarianism which is now all about tribal labels rather than any actual religious beliefs.

    The other question to ask (and its probably one for the Holy Ground) is why faith schools remain so popular in essentially secular 21st century Scotland. Of course the ultimate irony is what keeps them viable is the large number of Protestants, Muslims, Sikhs, agnostics and even atheist parents who choose to send their children to them.
    That last paragraph is spot on. The churches are empty on a Sunday but schools are bursting at the seams.


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  23. #112
    Administrator matty_f's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brizo View Post
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    The old Chick Young / Derek Ferguson / Gordon Smith deflection tactic.... blame the Catholic Schools.

    Catholic schools exist in every mainland UK city- London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Leeds, Dundee, Aberdeen etc etc. Logic would suggest that if faith schools are an incubator for sectarianism these cities would experience football related and societal related sectarianism similar to Glasgow and west central Scotland.

    That patently isn't the case. Cities like Manchester and Liverpool with similar demographics to Glasgow had societal sectarianism in the 19th and into the 20th century but have moved on from those days so the question must be why hasn't Glasgow. In my view its the OF who are the incubator for a sectarianism which is now all about tribal labels rather than any actual religious beliefs.

    The other question to ask (and its probably one for the Holy Ground) is why faith schools remain so popular in essentially secular 21st century Scotland. Of course the ultimate irony is what keeps them viable is the large number of Protestants, Muslims, Sikhs, agnostics and even atheist parents who choose to send their children to them.
    Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post and should have pointed out that by saying the Catholic schools I was just taking them as an example.

    My point, albeit poorly made, was that inclusive schools (where religious teaching could still take place) would help build tolerance and undersanding across all communities and ultimately would help with racism and sectarianism etc, in the same way that having mixed sex classes helped with sexism.

    I understand also from another poster that there are already pupils from multiple religions that attend Catholic schools, and so hopefully we see this help the situation. Unfortunatley I doubt that the kids of parents who already hold bigotted beliefs are the ones that are attending these schools, so it won't change as much as hoped.

    To be clear though, I have no issue with Catholic schools and I am not suggesting for a minute that Catholics are responsible for sectarianism.

  24. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by matty_f View Post
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    Sorry, I wasn't clear in my post and should have pointed out that by saying the Catholic schools I was just taking them as an example.

    My point, albeit poorly made, was that inclusive schools (where religious teaching could still take place) would help build tolerance and undersanding across all communities and ultimately would help with racism and sectarianism etc, in the same way that having mixed sex classes helped with sexism.

    I understand also from another poster that there are already pupils from multiple religions that attend Catholic schools, and so hopefully we see this help the situation. Unfortunatley I doubt that the kids of parents who already hold bigotted beliefs are the ones that are attending these schools, so it won't change as much as hoped.

    To be clear though, I have no issue with Catholic schools and I am not suggesting for a minute that Catholics are responsible for sectarianism.
    Cheers for that explanation

  25. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    It would only be for mass singing so unless you have 1000 equally daft mates then it won’t work.
    Strict liability should only be for incidents where there is mass singing not for single idiots running on pitch or throwing things. We have the law for dealing with that.


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    I was ripping the piss out Blackpools insane idea. Spotters in the stands with a hotline to the ref listening out for any bigoted chanting. Once they think they hear something they radio the ref who immediately stops the game and takes the players of the pitch. The team of the fans who were chanting are then handed a 3-0 loss. Too bad if you have paid 30 quid for a ticket and the game is stopped after 5 minutes. I thought our donkey bothering friend was joking but he was actually being serious.

  26. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Besties Debut View Post
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    I was ripping the piss out Blackpools insane idea. Spotters in the stands with a hotline to the ref listening out for any bigoted chanting. Once they think they hear something they radio the ref who immediately stops the game and takes the players of the pitch. The team of the fans who were chanting are then handed a 3-0 loss. Too bad if you have paid 30 quid for a ticket and the game is stopped after 5 minutes. I thought our donkey bothering friend was joking but he was actually being serious.
    How to make friends and influence people
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  27. #116
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    Wasn't there a list of unacceptable songs/names published a few years ago? Whatever happened to it?

    Reintroduce that and redefine what a hate crime is. Singing someone is a fat so and so IMO is a millions miles away from many of the songs old firm clubs (and a minority of hibs/hearts fans choose to sing) about religion and political battles

    Fans singing billy boys? Warning
    Fans singing it again? Individual Banning Orders
    A third time? SFA involvement with fines/stadium closure within remit
    STILL at it? Point deduction

    The judicial system is happy to make a Hibs fans a scapegoat in the stand against fans entering the field of play. About time we started getting heavy with serial offenders here and it will soon get through

    their are deeper societal issues, but that's another story

  28. #117
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Besties Debut View Post
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    I was ripping the piss out Blackpools insane idea. Spotters in the stands with a hotline to the ref listening out for any bigoted chanting. Once they think they hear something they radio the ref who immediately stops the game and takes the players of the pitch. The team of the fans who were chanting are then handed a 3-0 loss. Too bad if you have paid 30 quid for a ticket and the game is stopped after 5 minutes. I thought our donkey bothering friend was joking but he was actually being serious.
    Yip 100% serious, or should we just continue to do the same as we have done for years, because thats worked well?

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