What impact will women’s football have on future of the men’s game in Scotland?

[GreenCastle]

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Ffs.

What’s wrong ? Try put it into proper words.

[calumhibee1]

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But this has got nothing to do with the OP original point. Why people keep turning this into women arent as good as men at sport is beyond me. ITS NOT THE POINT.

The OP is asking what impact women’s football will have on the future of the men’s game in Scotland. You’re kidding yourself on if you think the quality of the game compared to the men’s game is irrelevant to that point. At the end of the day, the quality of the product is the most important aspect, so it’s probably the most important point of all. It would seem more like you don’t want it to be one of the points because it’s not going to result in a favourable answer for women’s football.

You wouldn’t ask “what impact will product A have on the future of the world favourite, long established product B” without asking if the quality of product A was actually any good. The same applies here. And when someone told you that product A was massively inferior your answer would then be “absolutely none”.

[Brightside]

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The OP is asking what impact women’s football will have on the future of the men’s game in Scotland. You’re kidding yourself on if you think the quality of the game compared to the men’s game is irrelevant to that point. At the end of the day, the quality of the product is the most important aspect, so it’s probably the most important point of all. It would seem more like you don’t want it to be one of the points because it’s not going to result in a favourable answer for women’s football.

You wouldn’t ask “what impact will product A have on the future of the world favourite, long established product B” without asking if the quality of product A was actually any good. The same applies here. And when someone told you that product A was massively inferior your answer would then be “absolutely none”.

No one is going to stop watching Hibs men in order to watch a Hibs Women team. That’s clear to everyone. Some will watch both when they can. Those that are going to watch the Women’s games are luckily well aware that there is no comparison between men and women’s football. In the same way many of us go and watch u14s kids play every week. It’s just football. They are not competing against each other and never will do. So the impact on men’s football is zero. But don’t let that stop the sexist bull that appears on every thread that brings up women’s football. I hope some of the people on this thread never bring daughters into the world.

[calumhibee1]

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No one is going to stop watching Hibs men in order to watch a Hibs Women team. That’s clear to everyone. Some will watch both when they can. Those that are going to watch the Women’s games are luckily well aware that there is no comparison between men and women’s football. In the same way many of us go and watch u14s kids play every week. It’s just football. They are not competing against each other and never will do. So the impact on men’s football is zero. But don’t let that stop the sexist bull that appears on every thread that brings up women’s football. I hope some of the people on this thread never bring daughters into the world.

Read your first sentence then read the question that was asked. You’ve given the same answer as the posts you’re objecting to.

Just because the answer isn’t favourable to women’s football it doesn’t make it sexist bull. You don’t have to big up women’s football as something it’s not to not be sexist.

Change the question to “what impact will junior/lowland league football have on the future of top level men’s football in Scotland” and you’d get the same answer with the same reasoning (although junior/lowland league football is much closer to the men’s top level game in the majority of aspects whether that be standard, coverage, crowds, finances, probably even facilities).

People aren’t making these points because it’s women’s football, it’s because it’s pretty hard to see any other outcome than it having no impact whatsoever.

[Allant1981]

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No one is going to stop watching Hibs men in order to watch a Hibs Women team. That’s clear to everyone. Some will watch both when they can. Those that are going to watch the Women’s games are luckily well aware that there is no comparison between men and women’s football. In the same way many of us go and watch u14s kids play every week. It’s just football. They are not competing against each other and never will do. So the impact on men’s football is zero. But don’t let that stop the sexist bull that appears on every thread that brings up women’s football. I hope some of the people on this thread never bring daughters into the world.

It's not being sexist suggesting that female players should not get paid the same as the top guys when the product is not as good, it's not being sexist to say the game should not get as much coverage, the top junior teams dont get that much space in a newspaper so why should the women? The papers/media will write about it if the reader wants it but clearly there currently isn't a market for it,Promote the game of course, anyone should be able to play the game regardless of age or sex but to suggest it's being sexist(on this thread at least) is nonsense

[Brightside]

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It's not being sexist suggesting that female players should not get paid the same as the top guys when the product is not as good, it's not being sexist to say the game should not get as much coverage, the top junior teams dont get that much space in a newspaper so why should the women? The papers/media will write about it if the reader wants it but clearly there currently isn't a market for it,Promote the game of course, anyone should be able to play the game regardless of age or sex but to suggest it's being sexist(on this thread at least) is nonsense

You are the only one saying anything about paying them the same? Hibs Women get paid nothing! Not a single penny. Lisa Robertson recently signed for Durham. She gets travel expenses and nothing more. For that she works full time in edinburgh then jumps on a train at 5pm....trains every night in Durham then get the last train home at night. She's up again at 6am to start her working day again. Plenty of Junior men players get paid and they still play in front of 10 men and a dug.

As a planet we have a roughly 50/50 split of sexes. So why wouldnt the news reflect that? Its nothing to do with how much they are paid or how many people want to watch them. And in case you haven't noticed there is no shortage of space for reporting now. Its not like they are pushing out Junior teams from the pages of the Pink. The majority read sports news on line.

[Brightside]

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Read your first sentence then read the question that was asked. You’ve given the same answer as the posts you’re objecting to.

Just because the answer isn’t favourable to women’s football it doesn’t make it sexist bull. You don’t have to big up women’s football as something it’s not to not be sexist.

Change the question to “what impact will junior/lowland league football have on the future of top level men’s football in Scotland” and you’d get the same answer with the same reasoning (although junior/lowland league football is much closer to the men’s top level game in the majority of aspects whether that be standard, coverage, crowds, finances, probably even facilities).

People aren’t making these points because it’s women’s football, it’s because it’s pretty hard to see any other outcome than it having no impact whatsoever.

No my first sentence is clear. There isnt a choice that needs to be made. Unless Hibs Women start playing at 3pm on a Saturday anyone can watch both. So there isnt an impact on the Mens game. The main issue with the mens game in Scotland is rubbish coaching and a poor end product thats getting worse every year. Mens football should be more concerned with that and less concerned with what the womens game is doing.

[Allant1981]

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You are the only one saying anything about paying them the same? Hibs Women get paid nothing! Not a single penny. Lisa Robertson recently signed for Durham. She gets travel expenses and nothing more. For that she works full time in edinburgh then jumps on a train at 5pm....trains every night in Durham then get the last train home at night. She's up again at 6am to start her working day again. Plenty of Junior men players get paid and they still play in front of 10 men and a dug.

As a planet we have a roughly 50/50 split of sexes. So why wouldnt the news reflect that? Its nothing to do with how much they are paid or how many people want to watch them. And in case you haven't noticed there is no shortage of space for reporting now. Its not like they are pushing out Junior teams from the pages of the Pink. The majority read sports news on line.

Others have also mentioned equal pay in their posts but no problem, the top junior players get paid, most get paid travel money, but you will know that of course

If there is the market for reporting on the womens game then it will happen, it probably does already but of course it has to do with how many people watch it or how popular it is

[calumhibee1]

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No my first sentence is clear. There isnt a choice that needs to be made. Unless Hibs Women start playing at 3pm on a Saturday anyone can watch both. So there isnt an impact on the Mens game. The main issue with the mens game in Scotland is rubbish coaching and a poor end product thats getting worse every year. Mens football should be more concerned with that and less concerned with what the womens game is doing.

Maybe it’s the question that you have an issue with rather than peoples replies then?

The question asks if there’ll be an impact on the future of the men’s game. The quality of the women’s game is massively linked to whether there would be any impact. Low quality will mean low/no impact. High quality could potentially mean a big impact, people potentially going to watch on a Sunday at 5pm or whenever it’s played and not going to watch men on a Saturday at 3pm.

I’m not sure if you’re talking about on this thread or more generally, but there’s been absolutely nothing sexist as far as I can see. People just aren’t dressing women’s football up as some sort of entertaining high quality product and are pointing out that while the standard is as poor as it is that there’s no incentive to watch or read articles or whatever else and that because of that it’ll have no impact on the men’s game.

[Brightside]

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Others have also mentioned equal pay in their posts but no problem, the top junior players get paid, most get paid travel money, but you will know that of course

If there is the market for reporting on the womens game then it will happen, it probably does already but of course it has to do with how many people watch it or how popular it is

The vast majority of junior players are on salaried contracts.

Women is scotland wont get on that level in my lifetime. Hence why anyone who is half decent is moving down south. That will have a detrimental effect on the womens games in scotland as the quality will not be seen to improve. Even if the best scottish players are improving.

The WSL in england is improving every year and is a very watchable spectacle for most now.

[Allant1981]

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The vast majority of junior players are on salaried contracts.

Women is scotland wont get on that level in my lifetime. Hence why anyone who is half decent is moving down south. That will have a detrimental effect on the womens games in scotland as the quality will not be seen to improve. Even if the best scottish players are improving.

The WSL in england is improving every year and is a very watchable spectacle for most now.

Again the top teams pay money, most get paid enough to cover expenses to get to training etc, I worked with a player who plays for one of the top junior teams in the country and we discussed this a fair bit.

I have no doubt the game is improving and as I've mentioned before anyone who wants to play the game should be able to regardless of age or sex.

[Brightside]

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Again the top teams pay money, most get paid enough to cover expenses to get to training etc, I worked with a player who plays for one of the top junior teams in the country and we discussed this a fair bit.

I have no doubt the game is improving and as I've mentioned before anyone who wants to play the game should be able to regardless of age or sex.

So just to wrap up on the OP. Any additional reporting of Womens football in the press or social media will not have any impact on the Mens game in scotland. Can we all agree on that?

[Allant1981]

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So just to wrap up on the OP. Any additional reporting of Womens football in the press or social media will not have any impact on the Mens game in scotland. Can we all agree on that?

😁

[LancashireHibby]

Is there a certain angle that some parents might start to be more inclined to take their kids - especially girls - to watch women's games in a family atmosphere rather than the bile that so often accompanies the bile in the men's game in Scotland?

[Ozymandias]

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Maybe it’s the question that you have an issue with rather than peoples replies then?

The question asks if there’ll be an impact on the future of the men’s game. The quality of the women’s game is massively linked to whether there would be any impact. Low quality will mean low/no impact. High quality could potentially mean a big impact, people potentially going to watch on a Sunday at 5pm or whenever it’s played and not going to watch men on a Saturday at 3pm.

I’m not sure if you’re talking about on this thread or more generally, but there’s been absolutely nothing sexist as far as I can see. People just aren’t dressing women’s football up as some sort of entertaining high quality product and are pointing out that while the standard is as poor as it is that there’s no incentive to watch or read articles or whatever else and that because of that it’ll have no impact on the men’s game.

Rather than retype an earlier reply, the likely impact on the mens game will be positive. As the sport of football becomes more widely played and enjoyed- and the main growth in participation is by far amongst women and girls - them the demand to watch at the highest level (currently and likely to remain the professional mens game) is likely to increase also. This is surely straightforward to see?

[Sammy7nil]

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You are the only one saying anything about paying them the same? Hibs Women get paid nothing! Not a single penny. Lisa Robertson recently signed for Durham. She gets travel expenses and nothing more. For that she works full time in edinburgh then jumps on a train at 5pm....trains every night in Durham then get the last train home at night. She's up again at 6am to start her working day again. Plenty of Junior men players get paid and they still play in front of 10 men and a dug.

As a planet we have a roughly 50/50 split of sexes. So why wouldnt the news reflect that? Its nothing to do with how much they are paid or how many people want to watch them. And in case you haven't noticed there is no shortage of space for reporting now. Its not like they are pushing out Junior teams from the pages of the Pink. The majority read sports news on line.

There won't be a 50\50 split because people men and women are not interested. Exactly the same way Cowdenbeath won't get the same coverage as Celtic people are not interested. No organisation except a public one like BBC will make even minimum effort until the sport grows itself. I don't know what Barca did to 60k at a women's game but we are long way of regular crowds of even 1000.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

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There won't be a 50\50 split because people men and women are not interested. Exactly the same way Cowdenbeath won't get the same coverage as Celtic people are not interested. No organisation except a public one like BBC will make even minimum effort until the sport grows itself. I don't know what Barca did to 60k at a women's game but we are long way of regular crowds of even 1000.

I wouldn't be too sure about that. Sky have thrown their full weight behind netball. They have funded a professional league which is now covered extensively on their channels.

This is a sport that is widely played but has had very minimal general public awareness outside of Australia and New Zealand until now but we now have established sides, professional players and an ever growing tv following.

I believe that there is a real willingness down south to promote female participation in sport and plenty of companies and organizations are looking to capitalize financially off the back of it.

Sky are using netball as a test and a forerunner to how it will cover womens football further down the line.
Ten years from now, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Sky and the BBC are shelling out far more to cover womans football than male Scottish football, it will be a far bigger sport, UK wide, both in participation and interest.

[Just Jimmy]

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There won't be a 50\50 split because people men and women are not interested. Exactly the same way Cowdenbeath won't get the same coverage as Celtic people are not interested. No organisation except a public one like BBC will make even minimum effort until the sport grows itself. I don't know what Barca did to 60k at a women's game but we are long way of regular crowds of even 1000.

except BT sport regularly show woman's games.

men's football in Scotland has got enough to worry about without wetting the bed because of woman's football. our game is a bloody shambles.

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[Sammy7nil]

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I wouldn't be too sure about that. Sky have thrown their full weight behind netball. They have funded a professional league which is now covered extensively on their channels.

This is a sport that is widely played but has had very minimal general public awareness outside of Australia and New Zealand until now but we now have established sides, professional players and an ever growing tv following.

I believe that there is a real willingness down south to promote female participation in sport and plenty of companies and organizations are looking to capitalize financially off the back of it.

Sky are using netball as a test and a forerunner to how it will cover womens football further down the line.
Ten years from now, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Sky and the BBC are shelling out far more to cover womans football than male Scottish football, it will be a far bigger sport, UK wide, both in participation and interest.

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except BT sport regularly show woman's games.

men's football in Scotland has got enough to worry about without wetting the bed because of woman's football. our game is a bloody shambles.

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Sorry I thought we were talking about Scottish women's football. I have no doubt someone will try to cash in on women's sport. I just think it is very unlikely it will take off in my life time. The only women's sport shown regularly on tv over the past twenty years is tennis. The have equality in pay however I have no idea how as out with the slams the crowds look very poor. Do you know anyone who has watched netball match on Sky ? If more and more women's sport is on tv i can see more and more people ending their subscription. I may be wildly off the mark.

[Dom'sFirstTouch]

It’s a false dichotomy.

The far bigger issue is the ever increasing concentration of resources among a decreasing number of elite European clubs.

Until we find a way to stop this and start redistributing money properly across the game Scottish football in all its forms will continue to fall further and further behind.

[Ozymandias]

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...I just think it is very unlikely it will take off in my life time...

I hope your health is not in such a precarious state...
The sport indisputably has taken off in the last 5-10 years. Some facts: largest female participation team sport in UK. Third largest team sport in UK (behind mens football and rugby). Largest growth of participants in any sport on both percentage and absolute numbers.
This doesn't mean it's better or it will ever draw the same crowds or finance or interest. What can't be doubted is that it exists and is thriving. With this level of growth and market it will attract money and coverage

[Sammy7nil]

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I hope your health is not in such a precarious state...
The sport indisputably has taken off in the last 5-10 years. Some facts: largest female participation team sport in UK. Third largest team sport in UK (behind mens football and rugby). Largest growth of participants in any sport on both percentage and absolute numbers.
This doesn't mean it's better or it will ever draw the same crowds or finance or interest. What can't be doubted is that it exists and is thriving. With this level of growth and market it will attract money and coverage

Participation yes but it won't take off on the crowd side week to week in Scotland it probably never will. I have no doubt the women's world cup will have huge crowds but that is once every four years. People in Scotland will never turn out to watch Scottish women's football imho.

[Stonewall]

One of the most notable changes over my 48 years watching Hibs has been in the number of women attending matches. Therefore the more women who play and are interested in football means the men’s team will receive a benefit, that’s why it is important that Hibernian Ladies remain strong and are regarded as part of the same club.

[hibsboy69]

If women want to play football good luck to them.

In the same way as the majority of women don't like watching men's football, I personally feel the same way about women's football...…...I find it painful to watch and I don't think they're very good, especially the goalies ! (in my opinion).

Having said that......the women's team would surely have put up a more impressive performance against Kazakhstan than the men's team did !

To answer the OP, I don't think women's football will have any impact on men's football

[Eyrie]

As the playing numbers increase, the standard will increase as well which will help win over some of the doubters.

[RyeSloan]

Sone relevant stuff to this thread in here.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/footb...game-1-4893847


As some have alluded to the game in England is going from strength to strength, no doubt assisted by the riches of the clubs.

That said it’s interesting to note that Hearts are effectively folding the womens / girls set up into the club as a whole, something I would like Hibs to do as well, esp as we seem keen to espouse our ‘community’ connections. Yet as it stands we seem reluctant to formally include the community of girls and women that already represent Hibernian into the football club.

As for the Op I’m not sure it’s a zero sum game. The rise and rise of girls playing football can also benefit the men’s senior teams as well. The fact the girls can aspire to play for their own club and country as well as dream of being professionals in their own right only encourages them to have an interest in the game as a whole. That means more of them want to see the men’s team play and the fan base of the club gets bigger by their involvement.

So I think it’s short sighted to see the women’s game as a challenge to the men’s game, it should be seen as an opportunity to bring more people into the game and ultimately more girls and women through the turnstiles at ER.

[Kaff]

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Sone relevant stuff to this thread in here.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/footb...game-1-4893847


As some have alluded to the game in England is going from strength to strength, no doubt assisted by the riches of the clubs.

That said it’s interesting to note that Hearts are effectively folding the womens / girls set up into the club as a whole, something I would like Hibs to do as well, esp as we seem keen to espouse our ‘community’ connections. Yet as it stands we seem reluctant to formally include the community of girls and women that already represent Hibernian into the football club.

As for the Op I’m not sure it’s a zero sum game. The rise and rise of girls playing football can also benefit the men’s senior teams as well. The fact the girls can aspire to play for their own club and country as well as dream of being professionals in their own right only encourages them to have an interest in the game as a whole. That means more of them want to see the men’s team play and the fan base of the club gets bigger by their involvement.

So I think it’s short sighted to see the women’s game as a challenge to the men’s game, it should be seen as an opportunity to bring more people into the game and ultimately more girls and women through the turnstiles at ER.

Some good points by you and a couple of others about the potential of awakening more women/girls to following the men's Hibs team as a result of their involvement with the women's game.
My 'fear' is that as the game grows south of the border then it further draws money that could potentially have gone into television or sponsoring the Scottish game. Barclays are basically committed to it now and many other big corporates will follow, we'll likely be left with betting and alcohol companies which will then get banned from sponsorship/advertising knowing our luck!

Edit. Not that I think the womens game should be held back, my daughter will watch and certainly gets an empowerment from seeing successful female athletes of all disciplines,definitely enjoys the success of the Hibs women

[Brightside]

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Some good points by you and a couple of others about the potential of awakening more women/girls to following the men's Hibs team as a result of their involvement with the women's game.
My 'fear' is that as the game grows south of the border then it further draws money that could potentially have gone into television or sponsoring the Scottish game. Barclays are basically committed to it now and many other big corporates will follow, we'll likely be left with betting and alcohol companies which will then get banned from sponsorship/advertising knowing our luck!

Edit. Not that I think the womens game should be held back, my daughter will watch and certainly gets an empowerment from seeing successful female athletes of all disciplines,definitely enjoys the success of the Hibs women

The fear is shared by many in the scottish game. Any girl in scottish football who is showing ability is quickly being signed up by agencies and punted around the english clubs. The Hearts announcement is smoke and mirrors - all they are doing is using the same facilities as the boys and the same coaching guidelines. The same thing already happens at Hibs. The problem Hibs have is the persistence to keep the womens game separate and ran under the charity arm of the club. They are still treated as the poor cousins of the football club and that has to change.

[Pretty Boy]

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The fear is shared by many in the scottish game. Any girl in scottish football who is showing ability is quickly being signed up by agencies and punted around the english clubs. The Hearts announcement is smoke and mirrors - all they are doing is using the same facilities as the boys and the same coaching guidelines. The same thing already happens at Hibs. The problem Hibs have is the persistence to keep the womens game separate and ran under the charity arm of the club. They are still treated as the poor cousins of the football club and that has to change.

Part of the problem at Hibs is the women are unable to go out and source their own sponsorship or funding. They are tied into the Marathon Bet, Macron etc etc deal but almost none of the financial reward from that makes it way to them.

I understand why some would be unhappy if money that could be spent on the men's team was diverted away but the flip side of that is the women's team are unable to 'stand on their own two feet' in terms of income because of the commercial contracts at the club.

[I_Love_Latapy]

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It’s a false dichotomy.

The far bigger issue is the ever increasing concentration of resources among a decreasing number of elite European clubs.

Until we find a way to stop this and start redistributing money properly across the game Scottish football in all its forms will continue to fall further and further behind.

Absolutely this.
If you side-step sexist nonsense, the growth of the women’s game in Scotland IMHO likely to have a positive impact on the game for all reasons given by multiple posters. The real competition for funding comes from the mega clubs. Because of this there may well be decisions made by media companies to support fast growing sports that reach out to new audiences for them. Answer for Scottish football is to make sure ‘product’ (ugh) is good which does not mean losing the visceral edge but does mean cleaning up its act as discussed on other posts.