What impact will women’s football have on future of the men’s game in Scotland?

[calumhibee1]

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Tennis benefits from major tournaments being played at same time alongside each other.

Imagine men’s and women’s World Cup on at same time - growth would be huge.

Issue is those investing haven’t done enough to help and women’s game has been left behind.l and only recently teams / FAs are doing more to help as there are some gains - usually financially at end of it.

SFA criteria for teams is clubs must have link to women’s team / girls pathway.

True, that definitely helps the likes of tennis playing alongside each other

[Danny_Hibee]

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I find it out people who like football can’t watch women’s football.

Football is football - I watch all levels as the sport interests me.

I’m surprised when people say women’s football isn’t good then go watch thier mate play for dog and parrot pub team and the standard is horrific or even a kids game. Football is football.

Hopefully if any dads are on here they give their daughter a chance to play and go along and support them / the sport and not avoid watching games as it’s women’s football - it’s football.

People often say I don’t watch tennis - rarely I don’t watch men’s tennis or I don’t watch women’s tennis. Most tennis fans watch tennis.

I think a lot of it is down to having an interest for one reason or another rather than quality of football. I would be far more likely to watch an SPL game or even Scottish Championship than Serie A or Bundesliga because I have an interest of sorts.

Same goes for watching kids games or mates games, there is an interest because it's your mates or (hopefully) your kids.

As for the equal pay argument, surely that is only valid when it comes to prize money? It makes no sense whatsoever in terms of wages otherwise all male players would be paid the same!

[Renfrew_Hibby]

The rise of girls football is truly amazing.
Im often up at the Braehead shopping centre on a Sunday and the amount of girls there with their dads, still in the kits from Sunday morning games is unreal.
I never see that amount of lads kicking about, maybe it's just the location but when you see 4 teenage girls having a kick about in my local park, when there's not a boy in sight then you know times are a changing.

[Brightside]

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From another angle I watched pretty much all of Cheltenham last week. Horse racing in the UK is one of the few sports in which men and women compete on equal terms and some women are superior to their male counterparts.

Over the course of the week Rachael Blackmore rode 2 winners and is well in the hunt to be the Irish champion jockey, Bryony Frost won a Grade 1 race and Lizzie Kelly also rode a winner. Finally the feature race of the 3rd day was won by a horse with a female trainer. The general reaction was that it was a great day for the sport and the various racing groups I'm a member of had almost universal acclaim for what a significant and brilliant day it was. The snide comments or dismissal of the achievements was very much in the minority.

Maybe it's a mentality issue of men feeling 'their game' is threatened that leads to a near constant need for someone to make a joke about doing the dishes or to point out which team would pump a women's team.

Great post and spot on.

[Brightside]

Barclays have just announced a multi million deal for the WSL down south. It will still be another generation before the girls can make a decent living from the game but the quicker the better for me. And none of it will effect the men’s game.

[Antifa Hibs]

City of green wrote...
It’s nothing to do with physicality.

People don’t watch more men’s football because they want to see more physicality.

Was more talking sport in general not specifically football.

There is more to it than that.

Horse Racing / Formula 1 etc - limited females involved but the package of entertainment and what TV shows etc makes it attractive for people to watch. Personally both bore me but many millions watch / attend.

Individual sports were skill is more needed than physical attributes. As I said if a female jockey, darts player or motorsport driver can compete with men directly then 100% they should be allowed too and rewarded the same. Won't surprise me if female's are allowed to compete with male golfers soon.

Regarding the other leagues mentioned..Scottish Football is in its own little bubble here. These other leagues are thriving and money is being made. Other countries have thrown lots of money into the game and Scotland has been left behind.

Left behind were? States has 330m people, China over 1b people, Australia 25m people. Course these countries are going to be able to attract better players. As the popularity of football grows simply due to their population they're going to be able to generate alot more money than Scotland and its 5m people

The women’s football team has qualified for World Cup as the women’s game doesn’t have the crazy money in it yet plus many Scottish National Team players play abroad / in England so they are getting challenged by the best.

Reality is men’s football in this country is regarded at same level of Irish and Welsh leagues around the world and miles away from EPL levels structurally and financially.

Reality is mens football in this country is regarded at the same level of every other football league in Europe outside of the German, English, Spanish and Italian leagues. You're not telling me Ukrainian, Croatian and Danish football is alot more highly regarded than ours to the Asian and American markets. We've got two of the biggest supported clubs in the continent (outside the top teams in those top 4 leagues). Go abroad and most football fans know Rangers and Celtic.

As above..

[MWHIBBIES]

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Women’s tennis is of a much higher standard comparatively than women’s football which is where the comparison becomes a bit unstuck imo. Likewise women’s golf and apparently women’s horse racing (and probably other sports aswell).

Women’s football is considerably behind a lot of other women’s sports in terms of standard. To be expected when women’s football is still in its infancy of course.

Really? No female tennis player would get close to the top 250 men. Physically they are miles ahead.

[calumhibee1]

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Really? No female tennis player would get close to the top 250 men. Physically they are miles ahead.

Of course. I’m not saying it’s the same level as mens tennis. But it’s a hell of a lot closer than the difference between men’s football and women’s football imo.

[wookie70]

How would we get equal pay between women and men players when we don't have it among the men. It isn't unusual for a better paid player to be sat on the bench while a player earning less does the same job

[wookie70]

Women have a higher hourly rate at Wimbledon etc as they only play three set to the men's five.

[Allant1981]

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Of course. I’m not saying it’s the same level as mens tennis. But it’s a hell of a lot closer than the difference between men’s football and women’s football imo.

Serena William's played a guy ranked about 200 in the world and he horsed her about 6-0, not really that close

[GaryOsCheerios]

My friend wrote an article on this very subject at the start of 2018 that some of you may find interesting

https://thefootballblether.com/2018/...the-mens-game/

Any views or feedback would be welcome!

[JeMeSouviens]

From the handful of games I've seen on the telly, I don't think the standard, even in internationals, is good enough to get a mass market yet. But it might in a few years. There should be a snowball effect if more women take up the game and hence the talent pool will get deeper.

I wonder if, given the women are a bit less powerful than men, if it might be better if they reduced the size of the pitch a bit? Maybe play Scotland womens' at Tiny?

[Brightside]

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From the handful of games I've seen on the telly, I don't think the standard, even in internationals, is good enough to get a mass market yet. But it might in a few years. There should be a snowball effect if more women take up the game and hence the talent pool will get deeper.

I wonder if, given the women are a bit less powerful than men, if it might be better if they reduced the size of the pitch a bit? Maybe play Scotland womens' at Tiny?

68000 at the recent Barca womens game. Id say its mass market already. I'll ignore the pitch size nonsense.

[JeMeSouviens]

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68000 at the recent Barca womens game. Id say its mass market already. I'll ignore the pitch size nonsense.

Good stat. But then again 50000 turned up at Hampden to watch u-16s (or u-35s if you're Saudi ) back in the day, so one swallow and all that.

And, according to google, Atleti let their socis in for free and paying tickets started at 5 euros, so maybe not quite mass market yet.

[Just Jimmy]

I regularly go and watch man utd ladies in league 2 down here. it's 5 quid to get in. they play at a nice wee stadium and get crowds between 2 and 4k.

it's a family feel to it, plenty dad's with their kids and wee girls who are absolutely over the moon to be able to follow football and have heroes that aren't just men. equality you can see how much it means to the dad's who take their daughters and get to spend quality time with them at their biggest interest.

the utd shop is full of young kids of both sexes getting their shirts printed with their favourite woman's player.

the standard is miles better than most on here give credit for. yes it's not as physical or even fast paced as the men's game but it's a good standard and some of the players are very technical. Katie Zelem played for juventus before utd and is excellent on the ball.

our own Kirsty Smith and Lizzy Arnott are going well and have never looked out of place.

I know the English leagues get more coverage and money than Scotland do but it's still miles behind the men's game.

I don't think it'll have a negative impact and if it gives young girls something to look up to and aspire to, or the ability to say I can do that - then it's done something positive.

if you watch it and don't enjoy it fair enough because it is different from the men's game but to rubbish it on the basis soley because it's woman is ignorance and chauvinistic.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Speedy]

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From another angle I watched pretty much all of Cheltenham last week. Horse racing in the UK is one of the few sports in which men and women compete on equal terms and some women are superior to their male counterparts.

Over the course of the week Rachael Blackmore rode 2 winners and is well in the hunt to be the Irish champion jockey, Bryony Frost won a Grade 1 race and Lizzie Kelly also rode a winner. Finally the feature race of the 3rd day was won by a horse with a female trainer. The general reaction was that it was a great day for the sport and the various racing groups I'm a member of had almost universal acclaim for what a significant and brilliant day it was. The snide comments or dismissal of the achievements was very much in the minority.

Maybe it's a mentality issue of men feeling 'their game' is threatened that leads to a near constant need for someone to make a joke about doing the dishes or to point out which team would pump a women's team.

It's a different comparison imo. As you say, women are up there with the best im terms of jockeys and trainers so you'd expect them to be paid accordingly.

That isn't (currently at least) the case with football so talk of equal pay is quite easily shot down.

Like it or not quality has a bearing on levels of interest and income generated. As an example, you regularly get threads on here asking for £15/£5 entry for say Hibs v Elgin but if we drew Celtic or Aberdeen at he same stage of the same cup then higher prices are expected.

[James Stephen]

Personally, I just don't care about women's fitba, in the sense that I'm totally ambivalent and have no interest.

When it comes to Hibs, obviously I would rather the women's team won than got beat but I dont care a jot if they lose.

Im not against it, I think it's great that more young girls are playing sport, and if i had a daughter maybe I'd feel differently. But I'm not going to pretend I like it, or care about it just because its become fashionable. I see its success or failure coming from getting women watching it, otherwise whats the point in it - its an inferior version of the world's most popular sport, and it wont be able to compete.

I do resent the media attention it gets, which i think is forced and disproportionate, and I absolutely do resent all these suggestions that women players somehow deserve to be treated the same as the men. Men's football has taken 150 years to evolve to the point it is now at, and it pays so well because it earns so well. And which men do the women feel they should be paid the same as? The top few % of elite players, or the guy playing juniors earning 50 quid a week semi pro?

Women's football needs to stand (or fall) on its own merits imo and find its own natural level, which will be reflected in levels of pay and prize money.

[Pretty Boy]

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Personally, I just don't care about women's fitba, in the sense that I'm totally ambivalent and have no interest.

When it comes to Hibs, obviously I would rather the women's team won than got beat but I dont care a jot if they lose.

Im not against it, I think it's great that more young girls are playing sport, and if i had a daughter maybe I'd feel differently. But I'm not going to pretend I like it, or care about it just because its become fashionable. I see its success or failure coming from getting women watching it, otherwise whats the point in it - its an inferior version of the world's most popular sport, and it wont be able to compete.

I do resent the media attention it gets, which i think is forced and disproportionate, and I absolutely do resent all these suggestions that women players somehow deserve to be treated the same as the men. Men's football has taken 150 years to evolve to the point it is now at, and it pays so well because it earns so well. And which men do the women feel they should be paid the same as? The top few % of elite players, or the guy playing juniors earning 50 quid a week semi pro?

Women's football needs to stand (or fall) on its own merits imo and find its own natural level, which will be reflected in levels of pay and prize money.

I suppose you could argue women's football is miles behind the men's game in it's standing because the game was banned for 5 decades and denied the chance to evolve in the same way. As I pointed out prior to the ban it was a hugely popular sport in it's own right; the cynic may suggest the ban was put in place as the (male) blazers felt threatened.

Whether that means we should artificially promote women's football is another matter but the decades in which footballs popularity soared to new heights, European football was born and international football developed into organised tournaments coincided with the decades in which women were denied the right to play the game in any official capacity.

[ancient hibee]

Women’s football will probably take off on TV when someone remembers that 50 % of the viewing audience is women.Then perhaps the difference in ability and physicality won’t matter so much as women may enjoy watching women doing well.After all the Scottish women’s team has done far better than the men’s.

[2016-05-21]

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I suppose you could argue women's football is miles behind the men's game in it's standing because the game was banned for 5 decades and denied the chance to evolve in the same way. As I pointed out prior to the ban it was a hugely popular sport in it's own right; the cynic may suggest the ban was put in place as the (male) blazers felt threatened.

Whether that means we should artificially promote women's football is another matter but the decades in which footballs popularity soared to new heights, European football was born and international football developed into organised tournaments coincided with the decades in which women were denied the right to play the game in any official capacity.

Not strictly true re the women’s game being banned though is it? The English FA banned the use of member clubs’ ground’s being used by women’s teams. They didn’t ban the sport.

The English Ladies FA was formed the same year as the ‘ban’ and they used rugby grounds. People could still go and watch it if they had wanted.

[cleanyman]

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Serena William's played a guy ranked about 200 in the world and he horsed her about 6-0, not really that close

This was over 20 years ago

Peak Williams would win a couple of games at the very least

The standard of the women's tennis is fantastic but as many have said football has an issue with that at the moment.

[judas]

In the end the definitive factor will be who wants to watch what and it will not be women’s football IMO.

It’s Formula 1, but with Ford Fiestas.

[judas]

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Not strictly true re the women’s game being banned though is it? The English FA banned the use of member clubs’ ground’s being used by women’s teams. They didn’t ban the sport.

The English Ladies FA was formed the same year as the ‘ban’ and they used rugby grounds. People could still go and watch it if they had wanted.

I’m glad you said it.

[Allant1981]

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This was over 20 years ago

Peak Williams would win a couple of games at the very least

The standard of the women's tennis is fantastic but as many have said football has an issue with that at the moment.

She won the US open the following year so wasnt exactly a novice, she was ranked 20th in the world in 1998,just checked and she did actually win a game.

[Lago]

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It's probably worth remembering that the women's game was hugely popular in the early decades of the 20th century, particularly in England. Crowds of 40k and above weren't unknown. The FA reacted by banning the game for the next 50 years. The SFA followed suit and when a vote was held on lifting the ban guess who was the only country to vote against it....

When I was playing youth football I couldn't have named a girls team at the same age group as they were so few and far between. Now I could name 10 without even thinking; young girls who want to play football have somewhere to go. Part of the process is giving these girls their own role models to look up to and that means the professional ladies game needs a push. What impact will that have on men's football? In terms of salary men still earn about 100x more in England than women and in Scotland the gap can't really be qualified because the women's game here is so different in it's make up. TV deals will be driven by viewing figures and, in turn, advertising profitability and in the foreseeable future women's football isn't going to rival the men's game. The immediate concern should be that the Scottish women's game has already been left miles behind the game in England.

And will continue to be left behind with Barclays announcement of sponsorship.

[cleanyman]

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She won the US open the following year so wasnt exactly a novice, she was ranked 20th in the world in 1998,just checked and she did actually win a game.

And aftet that in practice matches she beat a few men

So you've lost your point

[Allant1981]

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And aftet that in practice matches she beat a few men

So you've lost your point

No I've not, training is completely different, I scored a goal against an ex pro keeper once, doesn't mean I'm good enough to play in the premier league

[cleanyman]

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No I've not, training is completely different, I scored a goal against an ex pro keeper once, doesn't mean I'm good enough to play in the premier league

But she's played at elite level her whole life

You haven't

[Allant1981]

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But she's played at elite level her whole life

You haven't

We are going round in circles here, she wasnt good enough to win when she was claiming that her and her sister could win, the guy had went for a drink beforehand and still won, what she could or couldnt do at her peak is irrelevant as she never done it. Hopefully the thread gets back on track now