What impact will women’s football have on future of the men’s game in Scotland?

[Austinho]

This post is meant as a discussion on the impact the rise in women’s football could have on smaller men’s leagues, rather than to degrade or dismiss the women’s game.

I saw an article recently about a campaign to get more equality (media coverage etc) for the women’s game. In the way our society is moving, it will only be a matter of time before this happens, and more pressure placed on equal pay too. The US women’s team are suing their FA to be paid the same, and the New Zealand teams already have this in place. Where will this money come from, and will it negatively impact the men’s game? In England they can afford to invest in both games, but for countries like Scotland, can we currently afford both equally without hurting the other.

The BBC have also just agreed to show both women’s FA Cup semi finals live, amongst other initiatives. Scottish men’s football is already down the pecking order in terms of UK media coverage, and rightly or wrongly - having us pushed further down the headlines section to be fed more women’s results is going to impact our game.

We’ve fallen so far behind the Premier League, Championship and even rising leagues around the world like MLS, A-League, China etc are catching up/overtaking us. Surely it won’t be long until we are competing for coverage with women’s teams around the world too? Or can both games be promoted without impacting the other? If Sky for example started ploughing money into the WPL, then that it’s bound to leave less in the pot for the TV deal in Scotland.

On the flip side, if the Scottish government were to invest more in the women’s game, that could lead to more investment in training facilities etc, and be of benefit to clubs as a whole. Investment in grassroots would help to produce talented girls and boys alike.

Also, a few years ago - the English FA announced Rachel Yankey as their all time most capped player, ahead of Peter Shilton. Whether you agree that both games should be compared as like for like or not, there may be a day in years to come where Hibs fans are staking a claim to be Scotland 2nd most successful club ahead of Aberdeen and Hearts because we’ve won 27 major honours in total between both men and women!

[Brightside]

So if i want to get the recent results of the Hibs Womens team you are saying its easier to find that on the BBC site than the Hibs mens team? Its not by the way. If the scottish mens games is really worried about losing column inches to the womens game then its the people that market the mens sport in Scotland that need to review what they are doing.

There was a great game in the with Durham and Chelsea at the weekend (including 2 ex Hibs players playing for Durham). The minor reporting of that on the BBC website didnt effect the reporting of any other mens game.

[Michael]

I don't think the rise of the woman's game will have any noticeable impact on the Scottish men's game. There is room for both in my opinion.

There is a general decline in small leagues though and in my opinion the only resolution is to change with the times and form an Atlantic League with other smaller countries.

[Monts]

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So if i want to get the recent results of the Hibs Womens team you are saying its easier to find that on the BBC site than the Hibs mens team? Its not by the way. If the scottish mens games is really worried about losing column inches to the womens game then its the people that market the mens sport in Scotland that need to review what they are doing.

There was a great game in the with Durham and Chelsea at the weekend (including 2 ex Hibs players playing for Durham). The minor reporting of that on the BBC website didnt effect the reporting of any other mens game.

I don't think they were saying that it'll be easier to find the hibs women's team than the hibs men's team. They were saying if parity between the sexes is achieved then it'll be easier to find the England women's team than the Scotland men's team on websites like the BBC, as the England women's team would be on par with their men's team, and as we all know, England comes first when it comes to the BBC.

[SChibs]

When Ronda Rousey was asked about the different payments in UFC she said it was fair men got paid more than her because they brought in a lot more money to the sport. That's how I see it with football too.

I read that Man Utd recouped much of Pogbas 89m transfer fee in shirt sales shortly after his arrival. Even the best woman's player isn't going to pull in anywhere close to that sort of money.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Wonder if we’ll ever see a woman coach a men’s team. With the grief Andy Murray and coach got likely any move dead in the water from football perspective. But why not?

[superfurryhibby]

Personally, I have no interest in watching woman’s football. Nothing against it in principle, but it doesn’t do it for me. On that purely personal basis I would say that it’s unlikely to have much, if any, impact on the future of the men’s game.

[Brightside]

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Wonder if we’ll ever see a woman coach a men’s team. With the grief Andy Murray and coach got likely any move dead in the water from football perspective. But why not?

Already happened. Shelley Kerr managed a mens teams before taking the scotland job.

[Pretty Boy]

It's probably worth remembering that the women's game was hugely popular in the early decades of the 20th century, particularly in England. Crowds of 40k and above weren't unknown. The FA reacted by banning the game for the next 50 years. The SFA followed suit and when a vote was held on lifting the ban guess who was the only country to vote against it....

When I was playing youth football I couldn't have named a girls team at the same age group as they were so few and far between. Now I could name 10 without even thinking; young girls who want to play football have somewhere to go. Part of the process is giving these girls their own role models to look up to and that means the professional ladies game needs a push. What impact will that have on men's football? In terms of salary men still earn about 100x more in England than women and in Scotland the gap can't really be qualified because the women's game here is so different in it's make up. TV deals will be driven by viewing figures and, in turn, advertising profitability and in the foreseeable future women's football isn't going to rival the men's game. The immediate concern should be that the Scottish women's game has already been left miles behind the game in England.

[MWHIBBIES]

Equal pay would be a hilarious debate. Playing infront of a few hundred people expecting Ronaldo wages. If that actually happens clubs will just disband their women's teams and rightfully so. They should build it slowly rather than expecting the same as the guys teams who have been competing for 150 years.

[Antifa Hibs]

The equal pay thing is nonsense in sport between men and women. Genetically men are stronger, faster and fitter than their female counterparts at elite level, its a shame for them but its a fact. So when people want to watch elite sports at the very very top level 9 times out of 10 its going to be a man. That means more TV watchers/subscribers, more ticket money, more advertising and hospitality etc meaning a larger cut for men. If a female is bringing in the same amount of money and is as good as her male counterpart then absolutely the pay should be equal.

Regarding TV and column inches in this country it won't have any affect. The best women's team in the country is probably on par with Cowdenbeath under 18's in terms of quality, popularity and support etc and i can't see it changing any time soon.

PS to the OP "We’ve fallen so far behind the Premier League, Championship and even rising leagues around the world like MLS, A-League, China etc are catching up/overtaking us"

I don't know one person who has any interest in those leagues in Scotland.

[calumhibee1]

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The equal pay thing is nonsense in sport between men and women. Genetically men are stronger, faster and fitter than their female counterparts at elite level, its a shame for them but its a fact. So when people want to watch elite sports at the very very top level 9 times out of 10 its going to be a man. That means more TV watchers/subscribers, more ticket money, more advertising and hospitality etc meaning a larger cut for men. If a female is bringing in the same amount of money and is as good as her male counterpart then absolutely the pay should be equal.

Regarding TV and column inches in this country it won't have any affect. The best women's team in the country is probably on par with Cowdenbeath under 18's in terms of quality, popularity and support etc and i can't see it changing any time soon.

PS to the OP "We’ve fallen so far behind the Premier League, Championship and even rising leagues around the world like MLS, A-League, China etc are catching up/overtaking us"

I don't know one person who has any interest in those leagues in Scotland.

I know this is going to sound like I’m just putting down women’s teams but Cowdenbeath u18s would demolish the best woman’s team (possibly Hibs?) in Scotland. You’d be looking at them being on a par with u15 boys at community clubs like Spartans or Leith etc imo.

[Antifa Hibs]

calumhibee1 you're probably about right > https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/foo...-a3257266.html

[Austinho]

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The equal pay thing is nonsense in sport between men and women. Genetically men are stronger, faster and fitter than their female counterparts at elite level, its a shame for them but its a fact. So when people want to watch elite sports at the very very top level 9 times out of 10 its going to be a man. That means more TV watchers/subscribers, more ticket money, more advertising and hospitality etc meaning a larger cut for men. If a female is bringing in the same amount of money and is as good as her male counterpart then absolutely the pay should be equal.

Regarding TV and column inches in this country it won't have any affect. The best women's team in the country is probably on par with Cowdenbeath under 18's in terms of quality, popularity and support etc and i can't see it changing any time soon.

PS to the OP "We’ve fallen so far behind the Premier League, Championship and even rising leagues around the world like MLS, A-League, China etc are catching up/overtaking us"

I don't know one person who has any interest in those leagues in Scotland.

I’m not suggesting we’d lose any Scottish fans to any of those leagues - but we could quite easily lose out in transfers, foreign viewers, global TV deals etc if we continue to be complacent and don’t promote the Scottish game well.

[Brightside]

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I know this is going to sound like I’m just putting down women’s teams but Cowdenbeath u18s would demolish the best woman’s team (possibly Hibs?) in Scotland. You’d be looking at them being on a par with u15 boys at community clubs like Spartans or Leith etc imo.

So what. It’s got nothing to do with this discussion.

[calumhibee1]

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So what. It’s got nothing to do with this discussion.

Well seeing as the quality of the women’s game will play a big part in how much it will impact the future of the men’s game it does have something to do with it. Infact, it’ll probably the single biggest factor. The women’s game will have no impact on the men’s game if the quality isn’t there.

[AltheHibby]

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So what. It’s got nothing to do with this discussion.

I think it is relevant in terms of cash. Would you pay to watch an under - 16 league? And if that's the equivalent standard, would you be prepared to pay to watch women's football?

That's not to demean the women's game, which is, in my view, 100 years behind the men's in the unsporting behaviour department (a positive), and is exciting to watch as Hibs pick up yet another trophy 🏆. 😁

[Pretty Boy]

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Well seeing as the quality of the women’s game will play a big part in how much it will impact the future of the men’s game it does have something to do with it. Infact, it’ll probably the single biggest factor. It’ll have no impact on the men’s game if the quality isn’t there.

Is quality the single biggest factor in deciding where to watch your football? If it was then clubs like Hibs would have fallen by the wayside years ago and we'd all be 'supporting' Man Utd or Barcelona. I'd argue tradition, familial ties and community are every bit as important to most fans as the quality on the park. Of course it's debatable whether the women's game has any of those factors in it's favour either but it's as much of a consideration as 'Cowdenbeath would pump Hibs'.

[Brightside]

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Well seeing as the quality of the women’s game will play a big part in how much it will impact the future of the men’s game it does have something to do with it. Infact, it’ll probably the single biggest factor. It’ll have no impact on the men’s game if the quality isn’t there.

Again people continue to fail to understand there will always be a difference in the "quality" People that watch womens tennis, golf, athletics etc arent expecting them to be better than men. Why some people (especially men) find that difficult to understand is staggering. The OPs view is that the increase in reporting will effect the game. It wont. In exactly the same way reporting of other sports hasn't effected the male equivalent. What has improved is the analysis on TV now. Alex Scott is as good as any of the men out there and better than most. So there is a positive from gender balancing.

Womens football will continue to improve and will continue to increase in popularity. And sport in general will be all the better for it.

[calumhibee1]

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Is quality the single biggest factor in deciding where to watch your football? If it was then clubs like Hibs would have fallen by the wayside years ago and we'd all be 'supporting' Man Utd or Barcelona. I'd argue tradition, familial ties and community are every bit as important to most fans as the quality on the park. Of course it's debatable whether the women's game has any of those factors in it's favour either but it's as much of a consideration as 'Cowdenbeath would pump Hibs'.

The SPL is the highest standard of football in this country. If we had teams of Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City etcs standards you could pretty much guarantee that family ties, tradition, community etc would fall by the way side for the vast majority in favour of these teams that are light years ahead quality wise.

The same goes for women’s football. People can go and watch a standard of football at 21 different SPFL stadiums a weekend, Lowland League, Juniors and that football is light years ahead of the women’s game standard wise. Even Saturday amateur and older youth football is of a better standard to watch. Unless that gap closes then no community links or tradition will lead to women’s football impacting on the men’s game.

[Pretty Boy]

From another angle I watched pretty much all of Cheltenham last week. Horse racing in the UK is one of the few sports in which men and women compete on equal terms and some women are superior to their male counterparts.

Over the course of the week Rachael Blackmore rode 2 winners and is well in the hunt to be the Irish champion jockey, Bryony Frost won a Grade 1 race and Lizzie Kelly also rode a winner. Finally the feature race of the 3rd day was won by a horse with a female trainer. The general reaction was that it was a great day for the sport and the various racing groups I'm a member of had almost universal acclaim for what a significant and brilliant day it was. The snide comments or dismissal of the achievements was very much in the minority.

Maybe it's a mentality issue of men feeling 'their game' is threatened that leads to a near constant need for someone to make a joke about doing the dishes or to point out which team would pump a women's team.

[calumhibee1]

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Again people continue to fail to understand there will always be a difference in the "quality" People that watch womens tennis, golf, athletics etc arent expecting them to be better than men. Why some people (especially men) find that difficult to understand is staggering. The OPs view is that the increase in reporting will effect the game. It wont. In exactly the same way reporting of other sports hasn't effected the male equivalent. What has improved is the analysis on TV now. Alex Scott is as good as any of the men out there and better than most. So there is a positive from gender balancing.

Womens football will continue to improve and will continue to increase in popularity. And sport in general will be all the better for it.

They’re not expecting them to be better than men, but they are expecting them to be better than teenage boys who play whatever sport it is down the local park.

The gap between men’s football and women’s football is much much wider than in the vast majority of other sports imo. Until that gap closes there will be no impact on the Scottish men’s game whether that be less reporting in favour of reporting on the women’s game or less numbers through the door at men’s games purely because there won’t be enough of an interest in the women’s game to detract from the men’s game.

[Pretty Boy]

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The SPL is the highest standard of football in this country. If we had teams of Man Utd, Liverpool, Man City etcs standards you could pretty much guarantee that family ties, tradition, community etc would fall by the way side for the vast majority in favour of these teams that are light years ahead quality wise.

The same goes for women’s football. People can go and watch a standard of football at 21 different SPFL stadiums a weekend, Lowland League, Juniors and that football is light years ahead of the women’s game standard wise. Even Saturday amateur and older youth football is of a better standard to watch. Unless that gap closes then no community links or tradition will lead to women’s football impacting on the men’s game.

So if, as an example, Hearts found a Saudi billionaire investor, started to win everything and became competitive in the Champions League you think Hibs, Aberdeen and Celtic fans would start to support them and feel as passionate as they would about the team their parents and grandparents supported? Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see it.

[blackpoolhibs]

Women's football has no impact at all in my life, i don't watch it bar the odd Hibs game which i don't really enjoy and it's only on because it's Hibs.

There is a place for it, and if it thrives then great.

If women want to play football they have every right in the world to play it, it should be self sufficient in my opinion, and any media coverage it gets really does not affect me as i don't read it.

There are many sports i don't enjoy, wrestling, hockey, swimming, judo, the list goes on, and women's football is just one of a long list that have no real effect on anything i choose to do.

[GreenCastle]

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The equal pay thing is nonsense in sport between men and women. Genetically men are stronger, faster and fitter than their female counterparts at elite level, its a shame for them but its a fact. So when people want to watch elite sports at the very very top level 9 times out of 10 its going to be a man. That means more TV watchers/subscribers, more ticket money, more advertising and hospitality etc meaning a larger cut for men. If a female is bringing in the same amount of money and is as good as her male counterpart then absolutely the pay should be equal.

Regarding TV and column inches in this country it won't have any affect. The best women's team in the country is probably on par with Cowdenbeath under 18's in terms of quality, popularity and support etc and i can't see it changing any time soon.

PS to the OP "We’ve fallen so far behind the Premier League, Championship and even rising leagues around the world like MLS, A-League, China etc are catching up/overtaking us"

I don't know one person who has any interest in those leagues in Scotland.

It’s nothing to do with physicality.

People don’t watch more men’s football because they want to see more physicality.

There is more to it than that.

Horse Racing / Formula 1 etc - limited females involved but the package of entertainment and what TV shows etc makes it attractive for people to watch. Personally both bore me but many millions watch / attend.

Regarding the other leagues mentioned..Scottish Football is in its own little bubble here. These other leagues are thriving and money is being made. Other countries have thrown lots of money into the game and Scotland has been left behind.

The women’s football team has qualified for World Cup as the women’s game doesn’t have the crazy money in it yet plus many Scottish National Team players play abroad / in England so they are getting challenged by the best.

Reality is men’s football in this country is regarded at same level of Irish and Welsh leagues around the world and miles away from EPL levels structurally and financially.

[calumhibee1]

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So if, as an example, Hearts found a Saudi billionaire investor, started to win everything and became competitive in the Champions League you think Hibs, Aberdeen and Celtic fans would start to support them and feel as passionate as they would about the team their parents and grandparents supported? Maybe I'm just getting old but I can't see it.

I don’t think a lot of folk that currently had a team would start supporting them (some no doubt would though!) but they’d absolutely start to gather the vast majority of new fans from Edinburgh and the surrounding areas and eventually all over Scotland in the same way Celtic currently do.

[where'stheslope]

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I think it is relevant in terms of cash. Would you pay to watch an under - 16 league? And if that's the equivalent standard, would you be prepared to pay to watch women's football?

That's not to demean the women's game, which is, in my view, 100 years behind the men's in the unsporting behaviour department (a positive), and is exciting to watch as Hibs pick up yet another trophy 🏆. 😁

Like your analogy with Hibs Ladies pulling in trophy's!

My problem is, the way the world is going, soon they will be asking for equal pay as in tennis?

We know they are not all as strong as men but are just as athletic, their game is more open and they have a lot more time on the ball so not as gritty as mens football!

If I'm right SKY have just invested in England's woman's rugby at international level?

Where will it stop? not sure how much was invested in England Rugby, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was more than what Scotland gets for men's football!!!!

[GreenCastle]

I find it out people who like football can’t watch women’s football.

Football is football - I watch all levels as the sport interests me.

I’m surprised when people say women’s football isn’t good then go watch thier mate play for dog and parrot pub team and the standard is horrific or even a kids game. Football is football.

Hopefully if any dads are on here they give their daughter a chance to play and go along and support them / the sport and not avoid watching games as it’s women’s football - it’s football.

People often say I don’t watch tennis - rarely I don’t watch men’s tennis or I don’t watch women’s tennis. Most tennis fans watch tennis.

[calumhibee1]

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People often say I don’t watch tennis - rarely I don’t watch men’s tennis or I don’t watch women’s tennis. Most tennis fans watch tennis.

Women’s tennis is of a much higher standard comparatively than women’s football which is where the comparison becomes a bit unstuck imo. Likewise women’s golf and apparently women’s horse racing (and probably other sports aswell).

Women’s football is considerably behind a lot of other women’s sports in terms of standard. To be expected when women’s football is still in its infancy of course.

[GreenCastle]

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Women’s tennis is of a much higher standard comparatively than women’s football which is where the comparison becomes a bit unstuck imo. Likewise women’s golf and apparently women’s horse racing (and probably other sports aswell).

Women’s football is considerably behind a lot of other women’s sports in terms of standard. To be expected when women’s football is still in its infancy of course.

Tennis benefits from major tournaments being played at same time alongside each other.

Imagine men’s and women’s World Cup on at same time - growth would be huge.

Issue is those investing haven’t done enough to help and women’s game has been left behind.l and only recently teams / FAs are doing more to help as there are some gains - usually financially at end of it.

SFA criteria for teams is clubs must have link to women’s team / girls pathway.