Why wasn't it red?

[hibbysam]

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The law is denied a goal by handball.. not an opportunity. By the fact that you say that the GK could’ve saved it you’ve answered your own question that it’s a yellow card.

‘denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area)’

You better tell IFAB that you know best then.

[PaulSmith]

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‘denying the opposing team a goal or an obvious goal-scoring opportunity by deliberately handling the ball (except a goalkeeper within their penalty area)’

You better tell IFAB that you know best then.

McNulty has not lost the opportunity though as he.....

But you know best lol

[Hermit Crab]

Yellow card and a penalty, correct decision imo.

[PaulSmith]

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Wouldn't you agree that it was a goal scoring opportunity?

Tell me what opportunity was lost?

[hibbysam]

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McNulty has not lost the opportunity though as he.....

But you know best lol

McNulty has hit a shot heading on target with the keeper needing to pull off a worldie, nothing lost, it’s as clear a goalscoring opportunity as you’ll get, just admit your wrong and there aren’t 1) any other rules like you suggested and 2) that you can be sent off for handball denying a goalscoring opportunity. Simple really.

[PaulSmith]

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McNulty has hit a shot heading on target with the keeper needing to pull off a worldie, nothing lost, it’s as clear a goalscoring opportunity as you’ll get, just admit your wrong and there aren’t 1) any other rules like you suggested and 2) that you can be sent off for handball denying a goalscoring opportunity. Simple really.

1) No opportunity has been lost, we are agreed on that?

2) Therefore the only part of this law which is relevant is “did it prevent a goal”

So you admit that the GK could’ve saved it with a worldie or hit may have hit the bar, went over the bar or hit the post..as I said it’s a shot at goal which has hit a hand/arm. Penalty and yellow card is the outcome.

[hibbysam]

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1) No opportunity has been lost, we are agreed on that?

2) Therefore the only part of this law which is relevant is “did it prevent a goal”

So you admit that the GK could’ve saved it with a worldie or hit may have hit the bar, went over the bar or hit the post..as I said it’s a shot at goal which has hit a hand/arm. Penalty and yellow card is the outcome.

The opportunity isn’t lost, it’s still live, a lost opportunity is one that got away, this wasn’t illegally halted. So no, it couldn’t hit the post bar over the bar as it was going in the net.

The keeper could save a one on one, doesn’t mean it isn’t a red as there’s an opportunity it could go in the net. The keeper ‘could’ve’ saved it but there’s far More chance it would’ve been a goal.

[PaulSmith]

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The opportunity isn’t lost, it’s still live, a lost opportunity is one that got away, this wasn’t illegally halted. So no, it couldn’t hit the post bar over the bar as it was going in the net.

The keeper could save a one on one, doesn’t mean it isn’t a red as there’s an opportunity it could go in the net. The keeper ‘could’ve’ saved it but there’s far More chance it would’ve been a goal.

Your miles off the mark here mate, I’ve tried my hardest to explain the difference between “opportunity” and “denying a goal by handball”.

If you think that the ball was clearly going into the net then that’s a matter of opinion and you could argue a red card. Anything else, in this example, is a yellow card.

[hibbysam]

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Your miles off the mark here mate, I’ve tried my hardest to explain the difference between “opportunity” and “denying a goal by handball”.

If you think that the ball was clearly going into the net then that’s a matter of opinion and you could argue a red card. Anything else, in this example, is a yellow card.

No, if it was guaranteed to go in then it’s denying a goal.

It was on target, that there is no doubt.
So the only question is ‘will the goalkeeper definitely save that?’ The answer is no so it’s a clear opportunity for a goal. The keeper was miles away from it.

[PaulSmith]

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No, if it was guaranteed to go in then it’s denying a goal.

It was on target, that there is no doubt.
So the only question is ‘will the goalkeeper definitely save that?’ The answer is no so it’s a clear opportunity for a goal. The keeper was miles away from it.

Your getting yourself in a bit of a muddle now and I don’t have any other words to add that I’ve not already said.

[hibbysam]

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Your getting yourself in a bit of a muddle now and I don’t have any other words to add that I’ve not already said.

No we’re really not, you’ve realised your two arguments about the wrong rule and not being able to be sent off for denying a clear goalscoring opportunity with your hand has got yourself pickled so you started making stuff up about posts bars and going over the bar. I understand you don’t want to admit it so we’ll leave it there.

[weecounty hibby]

I don't think anyone can really argue that it could have been yellow or a red. Either decision would have had people debating the rights and wrongs of it. In the end penalty and a yellow seems fair enough, but could easily have been red. Hope that clears everything up

[HibbyAndy]

It's a red card and a penalty all day long

If it was at the other end you can bet that clown Clancy would have taken great delight in flashing a red card in Hanlons face !

[Hibbyradge]

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Your getting yourself in a bit of a muddle now and I don’t have any other words to add that I’ve not already said.

The referee obviously took your view, but I think he was particularly lenient.

The defender deliberately handled the ball and it looks to me that it was going into the net. That's a red card offence.

You, and the ref, think that it might not have gone into the net, thereby justifying the yellow.

I disagree, but I understand your interpretation of the law and the incident.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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It's a red card and a penalty all day long

If it was at the other end you can bet that clown Clancy would have taken great delight in flashing a red card in Hanlons face !

Did he send Porteous off last year (v Killie) or was it just a penalty?

No wonder the refs get “everything” wrong - the rules are written in a way that no one understands them and can be interpreted in whichever way suits you best.

[PaulSmith]

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No we’re really not, you’ve realised your two arguments about the wrong rule and not being able to be sent off for denying a clear goalscoring opportunity with your hand has got yourself pickled so you started making stuff up about posts bars and going over the bar. I understand you don’t want to admit it so we’ll leave it there.

OK, let's talk specifically about this incident which I thought we were?


1) Hibs do NOT lose an opportunity to score a goal. The very fact that McNulty gets his shot away is clear evidence of this. End of the argument about denying a goal scoring opportunity unless you don't understand the meaning of an opportunity. For clarity the opportunity cannot continue once the referee has blown his whistle

2) Therefore the ONLY question is did this incident deny a goal....that's open to interpretation and opinion. I have given mine as you have done this also by saying that the GK could've saved it via a 'worldie'. Therefore the correct decision would be a yellow card for simply handball in the penalty area with the added requirement of a yellow card as it was a shot at goal.


You absolutely can be sent off for denying a goal scoring opportunity via handball, a defender stopping a through ball to a striker who would be one on one with the GK would be an example of that.


I really hope you aren't a referee!!

[hibbysam]

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Did he send Porteous off last year (v Killie) or was it just a penalty?

No wonder the refs get “everything” wrong - the rules are written in a way that no one understands them and can be interpreted in whichever way suits you best.

That’s because it was quite clear that shot was going about 15 yards wide of goal.

[brianmc]

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OK, let's talk specifically about this incident which I thought we were?


1) Hibs do NOT lose an opportunity to score a goal. The very fact that McNulty gets his shot away is clear evidence of this. End of the argument about denying a goal scoring opportunity unless you don't understand the meaning of an opportunity. For clarity the opportunity cannot continue once the referee has blown his whistle

2) Therefore the ONLY question is did this incident deny a goal....that's open to interpretation and opinion. I have given mine as you have done this also by saying that the GK could've saved it via a 'worldie'. Therefore the correct decision would be a yellow card for simply handball in the penalty area with the added requirement of a yellow card as it was a shot at goal.


You absolutely can be sent off for denying a goal scoring opportunity via handball, a defender stopping a through ball to a striker who would be one on one with the GK would be an example of that.


I really hope you aren't a referee!!

That's mental!
Using your logic: a defender standing on the 6 yard line who makes a diving save and turns the striker's shot round the post only deserves a yellow card because the striker 'already got his shot away' and the goalie is stood behind him and MIGHT make a save???

I really hope that you're NOT a referee!

[PaulSmith]

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That's mental!
Using your logic: a defender standing on the 6 yard line who makes a diving save and turns the striker's shot round the post only deserves a yellow card because the striker 'already got his shot away' and the goalie is stood behind him and MIGHT make a save???

I really hope that you're NOT a referee!

Someone else who cant tell the difference between example 1 and 2

Surely example 2) would come into play in that situation and it would be a red card as it would be more clear to the referee that it was almost certain that the player diving to save a shot denied a goal...

[hibbysam]

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That's mental!
Using your logic: a defender standing on the 6 yard line who makes a diving save and turns the striker's shot round the post only deserves a yellow card because the striker 'already got his shot away' and the goalie is stood behind him and MIGHT make a save???

I really hope that you're NOT a referee!

Takeaway the ‘diving save’ and change to ‘lifted arm
Towards the ball’ and that’s exactly the scenario from yesterday.

[Hibbyradge]

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Takeaway the ‘diving save’ and change to ‘lifted arm
Towards the ball’ and that’s exactly the scenario from yesterday.

Except, the keeper was diving in an attempt to save it from crossing the line.

[Danderhall Hibs]

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That’s because it was quite clear that shot was going about 15 yards wide of goal.

And it was deliberate?

[hibbysam]

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And it was deliberate?

The referee deemed it deliberate hence the penalty. It wasn’t a red, or yellow for that matter due to where the ball was going.

[hibbysam]

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Except, the keeper was diving in an attempt to save it from crossing the line.

That doesn’t mean he is going to save it, however. If thats the case then any handball going towards a goal, as long as a keeper dives in the direction of the ball will save his defender from a red card.

[PaulSmith]

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The referee deemed it deliberate hence the penalty. It wasn’t a red, or yellow for that matter due to where the ball was going.

It was a shot on goal and Ryan got a yellow card.


Did you see the Man Utd game last week.....

[PaulSmith]

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That doesn’t mean he is going to save it, however. If thats the case then any handball going towards a goal, as long as a keeper dives in the direction of the ball will save his defender from a red card.

There's clearly a level of interpration required..how far is the defender from goal, the speed of the ball, how likely is the GK to save it and if you take away the defender was it clearly going to be a goal.

All factors which you've conveniently ignored.

[Hibbyradge]

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That doesn’t mean he is going to save it, however. If thats the case then any handball going towards a goal, as long as a keeper dives in the direction of the ball will save his defender from a red card.

A handball on the line with the keeper stranded is an obvious red card.

If it's a shot on target and there are defenders, or a keeper, behind the defender when he handles it, then it's most likely a yellow.

Of course there are grey areas, and I thought the Motherwell player could easily have been sent off, but if you're looking for the referee's justification for his decision, which I was, then that's it.

Not much point discussing this any further, tbh.

[hibbysam]

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There's clearly a level of interpration required..how far is the defender from goal, the speed of the ball, how likely is the GK to save it and if you take away the defender was it clearly going to be a goal.

All factors which you've conveniently ignored.

Ok I’ll answer them, again for you.
Defender was inside 6 yard box so approx 4 yards out.
Pace of the ball was decently struck.
Keeper hadn’t started to dive yet, therefore would have been unbelievable had he stopped it.

[hibbysam]

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It was a shot on goal and Ryan got a yellow card.


Did you see the Man Utd game last week.....

It was a shot miles off target. Yes I seen the Man Utd one, another which was well off target and a much greater distance from goal for both shot and ‘save’ hence why he wasn’t sent off. Not sure what point your making with either...

[Hibbyradge]

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Ok I’ll answer them, again for you.
Defender was inside 6 yard box so approx 4 yards out.
Pace of the ball was decently struck.
Keeper hadn’t started to dive yet, therefore would have been unbelievable had he stopped it.

Have you seen it again, yet? I've watched it a few times, and again just now.

The keeper dives as soon as Sparky shoots. Whether he was getting it or not is another matter, but he might have.