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  1. #91
    @hibs.net private member PaulSmith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by May2116 View Post
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    Ok Iíll answer them, again for you.
    Defender was inside 6 yard box so approx 4 yards out.
    Pace of the ball was decently struck.
    Keeper hadnít started to dive yet, therefore would have been unbelievable had he stopped it.
    So Iím glad youíre now not arguing about the different laws and seem to accept how Iíve described them.

    A matter of opinion absolutely fine, just exactly as Hibbyradge has said .


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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Have you seen it again, yet? I've watched it a few times, and again just now.

    The keeper dives as soon as Sparky shoots. Whether he was getting it or not is another matter, but he might have.
    Multiple times. This photo being after the ball hits the arm and is away from the arm and the keeper still hasnít dived. Starting to think youíve probably not seen it again.
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  4. #93
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by May2116 View Post
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    Multiple times. This photo being after the ball hits the arm and is away from the arm and the keeper still hasnít dived. Starting to think youíve probably not seen it again.
    I've seen it several times on Hibs TV
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  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I've seen it several times on Hibs TV
    The photo clearly shows the keeper hadnít dived until after it hit the arm.

  6. #95
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    You can freeze frame to prove just about anything. I've posted one showing the keeper starting to dive, a split second after McNulty shot. The referee doesn't have that luxury.

    I don't know what you're arguing about now.

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  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    You can freeze frame to prove just about anything. I've posted one showing the keeper starting to dive, a split second after McNulty shot. The referee doesn't have that luxury.

    I don't know what you're arguing about now.

    That split second is after the ball has travelled to the arm (3/4 yards) and left the arm to go away from goal, and heís only just started to move. Itís clear he was getting nowhere near it.

    You canít say the keeper dived as soon as McNulty hit it as thatís simply not true.

  8. #97
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by May2116 View Post
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    The photo clearly shows the keeper hadnít dived until after it hit the arm.
    It doesn't clearly show anything, but since when did keepers have to dive before a player shoots to make a save?

    As I've said from the start, the player could have been sent off. However, the referee didn't think that the offence merited a red card according to the laws of the game.

    Not much else to say really.
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  9. #98
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by May2116 View Post
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    That split second is after the ball has travelled to the arm (3/4 yards) and left the arm to go away from goal, and heís only just started to move. Itís clear he was getting nowhere near it.

    You canít say the keeper dived as soon as McNulty hit it as thatís simply not true.
    Cool. Well done.
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  10. #99
    @hibs.net private member bernz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulSmith View Post
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    OK, let's talk specifically about this incident which I thought we were?


    1) Hibs do NOT lose an opportunity to score a goal. The very fact that McNulty gets his shot away is clear evidence of this. End of the argument about denying a goal scoring opportunity unless you don't understand the meaning of an opportunity. For clarity the opportunity cannot continue once the referee has blown his whistle

    2) Therefore the ONLY question is did this incident deny a goal....that's open to interpretation and opinion. I have given mine as you have done this also by saying that the GK could've saved it via a 'worldie'. Therefore the correct decision would be a yellow card for simply handball in the penalty area with the added requirement of a yellow card as it was a shot at goal.


    You absolutely can be sent off for denying a goal scoring opportunity via handball, a defender stopping a through ball to a striker who would be one on one with the GK would be an example of that.


    I really hope you aren't a referee!!
    I was the one that started the thread, and your explanation has answered it for me. I had never considered the significance of the term 'opportunity'. It makes sense now. Subjective, but makes sense.

  11. #100
    Coaching Staff The Green Goblin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackSheep View Post
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    Not sure which game you were watching but it was a shot and the Motherwell player actually dives like a goalie to stole the ball, while he doesnít extend his arm, he definitely uses it to prevent a goal, no way the keeper was able to see it so unlikely to save it himself.

    Shouldíve been a red no doubt about it.

    I fully expect Heckingbottom to receive his phone call from Clancy by Monday evening 😂
    It was right in front of me and this is how I saw it too.

  12. #101
    @hibs.net private member Speedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernz View Post
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    I was the one that started the thread, and your explanation has answered it for me. I had never considered the significance of the term 'opportunity'. It makes sense now. Subjective, but makes sense.
    I don't really agree with the explanation. If you deliberately pull someone back when they're clear through in the box it would still be a pen and red - that wouldn't be the case if you accept the explanation.

    I think it's more likely the ref has interpreted it as not deliberately denying a goalscoring opportunity but has left his body in a place that is deemed a 'deliberate' handball, i.e. a middle ground that isn't really in the rules.

  13. #102
    @hibs.net private member Spike Mandela's Avatar
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    How was Goldson not a red in the Rangers game? Unfathomable.

  14. #103
    @hibs.net private member bernz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
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    I don't really agree with the explanation. If you deliberately pull someone back when they're clear through in the box it would still be a pen and red - that wouldn't be the case if you accept the explanation.

    I think it's more likely the ref has interpreted it as not deliberately denying a goalscoring opportunity but has left his body in a place that is deemed a 'deliberate' handball, i.e. a middle ground that isn't really in the rules.
    If they were pulled back when clear through on goal they would've lost the opportunity, so it would be covered by explanation.

  15. #104
    @hibs.net private member Speedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernz View Post
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    If they were pulled back when clear through on goal they would've lost the opportunity, so it would be covered by explanation.
    I thought the point was that there was a penalty so the opportunity is still there.

    Either way, a handball in the box which denies a clear goalscoring opportunity should be a red:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/05/19/phil-jones-not-sent-last-man-foul-eden-hazard/amp/

  16. #105
    @hibs.net private member superfurryhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike Mandela View Post
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    How was Goldson not a red in the Rangers game? Unfathomable.
    Just watched the highlights and aye, clear red. No attempt to play the ball, realised the guy had him f9r pace and just takes him out as heís bearing down on the box.

    Almost more annoying, McGregor launch the ball right at the Killie lad and then go radge at the ref. My most disliked player, along with Naismith.

  17. #106
    @hibs.net private member bernz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
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    I thought the point was that there was a penalty so the opportunity is still there.

    Either way, a handball in the box which denies a clear goalscoring opportunity should be a red:

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2018/05/19/phil-jones-not-sent-last-man-foul-eden-hazard/amp/
    I think the point was that once the attacker takes a shot, they no longer have an opportunity to shoot.

    So once it leaves their boot its either a certain goal (red card if stopped illegally) or a possible goal (yellow card if stopped illegally).
    Last edited by bernz; 18-03-2019 at 06:15 PM.

  18. #107
    Solipsist Eyrie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spike Mandela View Post
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    How was Goldson not a red in the Rangers game? Unfathomable.
    The answer is in the question, and also explains Morelos coming back out for the second half.
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  19. #108
    Coaching Staff JimBHibees's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by superfurryhibby View Post
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    Just watched the highlights and aye, clear red. No attempt to play the ball, realised the guy had him f9r pace and just takes him out as heís bearing down on the box.

    Almost more annoying, McGregor launch the ball right at the Killie lad and then go radge at the ref. My most disliked player, along with Naismith.
    Couldnt agree more you had to laugh what he was doing for the Killie goal there. Looked almost deliberate.

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