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Thread: Tribalism

  1. #31
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibsman07 View Post
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    Which all fits the model Hibernian FC.


    "promotion of the group" herein lies the problem. The group attain to be the best/strongest, hence the "we are the people" mentality which then emanates itself by disparaging other (often weaker) groups who they feel threatened by. So they target the other groups cultures and beliefs, and in doing so perpetuate a system whereby they believe themselves to be supreme and we are all lesser mortals..... New Rangers e.g.
    I get your point, but that's the difference between promotion of the group 'at the expense of the individual' which is the definition of selfless behaviour, and why I put that in there, and 'at the expense of another group' which is the opposite.

    It's going all philosophical the day.


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  3. #32
    Coaching Staff Future17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibsman07 View Post
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    Where did i say it was the same? i merely quoted it as an example of the pi*H collective groups of people buy into without knowing hide nor hair about anything
    It's not really appropriate to compare a lack of understanding of the context or meaning of those two songs when those singing must have, at the very minimum, an understanding of what is conveyed by the basic language of the lyrics.

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I haven't heard of atheists planting bombs or cutting people's heads off.
    Not religous at all, though plenty of atheistic goverments have killed plenty people in the past.

  5. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    I get your point, but that's the difference between promotion of the group 'at the expense of the individual' which is the definition of selfless behaviour, and why I put that in there, and 'at the expense of another group' which is the opposite.

    It's going all philosophical the day.


    The sacrifice of an individual for the greater group. Erm Jesus comes to mind, , Lot of good that did him other than Easter eggs for life

    Now Faust...there was an individual who knew what he wanted

  6. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Future17 View Post
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    It's not really appropriate to compare a lack of understanding of the context or meaning of those two songs when those singing must have, at the very minimum, an understanding of what is conveyed by the basic language of the lyrics.
    But do they have an understanding? i stood in a bar in Morrison Street, Edinburgh and suffered the singing of Athenry by some dozen or so suited and booted business men fresh from the conference centre. When i challenged them as to why they were regaling all and sundry with that irrelevant crap they were at a loss as to the meaning and roots of the song. "oh was there a famine in Ireland?" "when was that then"

    i'll give you this much though ..the HUN know for sure who Billy is.

  7. #36
    Coaching Staff NAE NOOKIE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    I haven't heard of atheists planting bombs or cutting people's heads off.
    Yes you have, its just that nobody describes them as atheists. Example the Kurdish PKK who are an atheist organisation have used suicide bombers in the past and various historical communist organisations around the world who are self described atheists have committed atrocities and murder on a mass scale that make ISIS and the inquisition look like pub league amateurs.

    None of that is a defence of murder and killing in the name of religion, but neither is it a defence of atheism as a panacea for the failings of religion either.

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Yes you have, its just that nobody describes them as atheists. Example the Kurdish PKK who are an atheist organisation have used suicide bombers in the past and various historical communist organisations around the world who are self described atheists have committed atrocities and murder on a mass scale that make ISIS and the inquisition look like pub league amateurs.

    None of that is a defence of murder and killing in the name of religion, but neither is it a defence of atheism as a panacea for the failings of religion either.
    Ok. I haven't heard of atheists murdering people for the sole reason that they believed in god.

    "Convert to atheism or you die" no-one said, ever.

  9. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    Ok. I haven't heard of atheists murdering people for the sole reason that they believed in god.

    "Convert to atheism or you die" no-one said, ever.
    Tbf arguing with an atheist has probably bored a few people to death over the years.
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  10. #39
    First Team Regular Mick O'Rourke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NAE NOOKIE View Post
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    Yes you have, its just that nobody describes them as atheists. Example the Kurdish PKK who are an atheist organisation have used suicide bombers in the past and various historical communist organisations around the world who are self described atheists have committed atrocities and murder on a mass scale that make ISIS and the inquisition look like pub league amateurs.

    None of that is a defence of murder and killing in the name of religion, but neither is it a defence of atheism as a panacea for the failings of religion either.
    3 of the 20th centuries most infamous tyrants, Stalin, Hitler and Pol Pot all had religious childhoods/backgrounds.
    Religion became a barrier to their pursuit of power, so it was rejected/put down.

  11. #40
    @hibs.net private member Hibbyradge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Tbf arguing with an atheist has probably bored a few people to death over the years.
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  12. #41
    First Team Regular Mick O'Rourke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Tbf arguing with an atheist has probably bored a few people to death over the years.
    The lapsed atheists are worse!

  13. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibsman07 View Post
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    But do they have an understanding? i stood in a bar in Morrison Street, Edinburgh and suffered the singing of Athenry by some dozen or so suited and booted business men fresh from the conference centre. When i challenged them as to why they were regaling all and sundry with that irrelevant crap they were at a loss as to the meaning and roots of the song. "oh was there a famine in Ireland?" "when was that then"

    i'll give you this much though ..the HUN know for sure who Billy is.
    I have found they actually have no idea whatsoever who 'Billy" is or was.

    The last line of their song usually reads

    "For we are the Bridgeton Billy Boys" or "Brigton Derry Boys".

    Billy Fullarton was a Glasgow razer gang leader from the "Bridgeton Cross area of the city in the late 1920's and 1930's when gangs were lined up on religious and territorial lines.

    He was a facist and a general heavy and his gang "Billy's Boys" were involved in the usual violence, strike breaking, intimidation, theft and extortion.

    Hating Catholics and minorities was just part of the DNA as was attending football matches on a Saturday.

    Its therefore entirely appropriate that "The Rangers" fans regularly belt out this anthem even if they never knew who Billy was.
    Last edited by The Baldmans Comb; 14-03-2019 at 01:15 PM.

  14. #43
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibsman07 View Post
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    Indeed i attained to be of the "Truth" but they found me to be too "of the World" and rejected me. My forthright views and love of "manly pursuits" did not sit comfortably with them. i was not deemed
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  15. #44
    Coaching Staff Future17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibsman07 View Post
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    But do they have an understanding? i stood in a bar in Morrison Street, Edinburgh and suffered the singing of Athenry by some dozen or so suited and booted business men fresh from the conference centre. When i challenged them as to why they were regaling all and sundry with that irrelevant crap they were at a loss as to the meaning and roots of the song. "oh was there a famine in Ireland?" "when was that then"

    i'll give you this much though ..the HUN know for sure who Billy is.
    The "roots" of a lot of songs are probably a mystery to a great many people who have sung them over the years. The same claim can rarely be made of the meaning of the base language of a song however and certainly not in the case of the two songs you referenced.

    I find it extremely hard to believe that anyone who knows the lyrics of The Fields of Athenry doesn't know what those lyrics mean given how literal they are.

  16. #45
    First Team Regular Mick O'Rourke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Baldmans Comb View Post
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    I have found they actually have no idea whatsoever who 'Billy" is or was.

    The last line of their song usually reads

    "For we are the Bridgeton Billy Boys"

    Billy Fullarten was a Glasgow razer gang leader from the "Bridgeton Cross area of the city in the late 1920's and 1930's when gangs were lined up on religious and territorial lines.

    He was a facist and a general heavy and his gang "Billy's Boys" were involved in the usual violence, strike breaking, intimidation, theft and extortion.

    Hating Catholics and minorities was just part of the DNA as was attending football matches on a Saturday.

    Its therefore entirely appropriate that "The Rangers" fans regularly belt out this anthem even if they never knew who Billy was.
    The Billy Boys song was put on a banned song list in 2011 (Scottish Government)
    As was "The famine song"
    I am not aware that this legislation has been repealed

    So the powers are already there for arrests.

    When the banned song list was made,police recruits were given the lyrics of some songs to memorise, so better equipped to arrest the songsters... Lol
    Strange but true .

    I would have though a large number of Glesga polis would know the words by heart ;-)

    On Fullerton
    He was a "brown shirt" (British Union of Fascists) and Oswald Mosley's right hand man in Scotland
    Last edited by Mick O'Rourke; 14-03-2019 at 01:26 PM.

  17. #46
    First Team Regular Mick O'Rourke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibsman07 View Post
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    Beats banging the drum about NL and attendances though
    No a Lambeg, i hope.

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