Steve Clarke

[Bobby's Cinema]

So tired of Steve Clarke being top of the agenda every day of the week to be honest regardless of what he’s saying at this point.

[Mili Tant]

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What lessons do Hibs need?

Did Lennon (as a Hibs employee) not call out sectarianism a few short months back?

Exactly the same as SC just did?

We have the names and addresses of every "fan" that buys a ticket. We also have CCTV. So why are they not handing the tapes and data base to Police Scotland and insisting they act on it with the same zest as they did when hunting down Hibs fans who invaded Hampden on some day in 2016?

[Paul1642]

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So tired of Steve Clarke being top of the agenda every day of the week to be honest regardless of what he’s saying at this point.

Bringing light to the issues of sectarianism and poor refs, issues we have been complaining about as long as I can remember. Good on him

[Keith_M]

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Good to see someone not afraid to call things as they are and not shy away from a difficult subject. Hope Hibs can learn a few lessons here.

If other clubs stopped tip-toeing about this subject, then things might actually change.

[green day]

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Bringing light to the issues of sectarianism and poor refs, issues we have been complaining about as long as I can remember. Good on him

No different to when Lennon did it last year. And the outcome will be the same.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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No different to when Lennon did it last year. And the outcome will be the same.

Nothing will change until we get strict liability and meaningful consequences for sectarian behaviour.

[Keyser Sauzee]

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No different to when Lennon did it last year. And the outcome will be the same.

Ur right about Lennon but wrong about the outcome, the more people speaking out in a way that Steve Clarke has done then eventually things will have to change.

[HoboHarry]

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So tired of Steve Clarke being top of the agenda every day of the week to be honest regardless of what he’s saying at this point.

Anyone who has the balls to tackle Sevco and Celtic fans can talk all day as far as I am concerned. More power to him and I'd rather hear him talk than witness the silent cowardice of people like Maxwell, Doncaster and everyone else who is supposed to be representing our national game.

[Allant1981]

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So tired of Steve Clarke being top of the agenda every day of the week to be honest regardless of what he’s saying at this point.

Calling out clubs and their sectarian fans should be an agenda every week until its stamped out regardless who is doing it

[green day]

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Anyone who has the balls to tackle Sevco and Celtic fans can talk all day as far as I am concerned. More power to him and I'd rather hear him talk than witness the silent cowardice of people like Maxwell, Doncaster and everyone else who is supposed to be representing our national game.

I haven't paid a huge amount of attention since yesterday, I do hope he has also mentioned Celtic......as they are both culpable.

[Jim_in_Canada]

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What are the odds his comments make the newspapers tomorrow?

record1.jpg

From the Waterloo Region Record - Kitchener, Ontario, Canada.

[Keith_M]

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Calling out clubs and their sectarian fans should be an agenda every week until its stamped out regardless who is doing it

The clubs are happy to engage in campaigns to stamp out racism, but sectarianism, (which is much worse in Scotland, surely) is barely ever mentioned.

It's time the clubs engaged in regular campaigns to call out sectarianism. We the Fans could also do our part and I'd happily donate to a banner to display at every Hibs game.

[green day]

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The clubs are happy to engage in campaigns to stamp out racism, but sectarianism, (which is much worse in Scotland, surely) is barely ever mentioned.

It's time the clubs engaged in regular campaigns to call out sectarianism. We the Fans could also do our part and I'd happily donate to a banner to display at every Hibs game.

Could put a banner in the FF lower it's always half empty 😆

[HoboHarry]

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I haven't paid a huge amount of attention since yesterday, I do hope he has also mentioned Celtic......as they are both culpable.

I don't think he has mentioned Celtic - I was talking generally about anyone who is prepared to pull them up is just fine with me......

[murray26]

It’s about time this mob we’re shamed into doing something about there large majority of bigoted fans.. good on Steve Clarke for telling it how it is..

[Bostonhibby]

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We have the names and addresses of every "fan" that buys a ticket. We also have CCTV. So why are they not handing the tapes and data base to Police Scotland and insisting they act on it with the same zest as they did when hunting down Hibs fans who invaded Hampden on some day in 2016?

Is it because police glasgow are all Huns?, or at least that way inclined.

Personally I think they are ****** scared of enacting the legislation as they'll be filling out paperwork on their friends and colleagues for decades

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Betty Boop]

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Here are six Rangers lyrics that are explicitly and overtly sectarian:

- "up to our knees in fenian blood"
- "we hate Celtic, fenian *******s"
- "cheer up Alan Stubbs/Neil Lennon, oh what can it be, to a sad fenian *******"
- "Dundee, Hamilton, **** the Pope and the Vatican"
- "**** the Pope and the IRA"
- "we hate Catholics, everybody hates, Roman Catholics."

Celtic sing one version of the above, calling the then Rangers manager a sad orange ******* in the cheer up song.

If you can find me five more songs that Celtic sing with explicit, overt anti-Protestant sentiments, then I’m all ears. The reality is, you won’t be able to, because they simply don’t exist.

Here are two borderline indisputable statements about sectarianism in Scottish football:

1) Celtic have a problem with sectarianism in their fanbase that they need to eradicate.

2) Rangers have a bigger problem with sectarianism in their fanbase and their club as a whole that they need to eradicate.

Aye kets split hairs over who has the biggest problem. They feed off each other.

[HibeeHibernian4]

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Aye lets split hairs over who has the biggest problem. They feed off each other.

The entire point is that it's not splitting hairs, there is a clear chasm in difference when it comes to sectarianism. Offensive singing? No, the gap is much narrower. They both sing about proscribed terrorist groups and are generally obsessed with the other.

But when it comes to sectarianism, to ignore the power relations of religion in Scotland is to do the sectarianism debate a disservice. Protestants and Catholics in this country did not start off on equal footing, and people tend to overlook that massively when examining sectarianism. There was no 'Catholic Action' or 'Scottish Catholic League' in the 1930s in Edinburgh or Glasgow.

There is a sizeable portion of Rangers' support who view both Celtic and us (and indeed the very existence of prominent Catholics within Scotland) as an attack on the dominance that they once enjoyed. Look at how they speak of the Scottish National Party, they frame it as a papal conspiracy that is taking over the country at every level. They even call them the SNPira, ffs.

Celtic (and Catholics by wider extension) have come from the other end to - just about - parity in the modern day. Can they still be sectarian? Yes, of course they can. Are they less likely to be? Equally, yes. I am not making a direct comparison here, but half a century ago, black people would be extremely unlikely to be racist towards white people in public for fear of reprisal. White people, by contrast, could be as racist as they liked towards black people and face zero consequences.

It had been openly acceptable at Rangers to be as intolerant and bigoted of Catholics as one pleased, up to and including the signing of Mo Johnston. The inverse just isn't true of Celtic. Their formation, much like ours, was a rallying against sectarianism.

The bottom line is this, there is a disturbed minority in this country who believe ours and Celtic's existence is, in and of itself, sectarian. We should not waste time trying to appease them by following this 'both sides as bad as each other' myth.

Again, to stress, I am atheist and have no grudge against either side. In fact, without taking this thread to the Holy Ground, there are parts of Catholicism that I am put off by far more than the CoS. But I can say, with near certainty, that this will never be solved until the elephant in the room is addressed, and that element is Rangers Football Club and a sizeable section of their support.

[we are hibs]

Aren't these the jokers who blamed Lennon for him receiving sectarian abuse August 2017?


http://club1872.co.uk/news/club-1872...ble-behaviour/


Club 1872 Statement on Unacceptable Behaviour

22 February, 2019

Club 1872 fully supports the stance of Rangers and Rangers’ manager, Steven Gerrard in condemning all unacceptable behaviour in Scottish football. It is absolutely clear to us that Rangers has done and continues to do what it reasonably can to address this issue, which remains a problem amongst a minority of all clubs’ supporters and wider society. We will be happy to work with the club on future initiatives in this area.

Unfortunately we see absolutely no viable way to eradicate these sporadic instances of unacceptable behaviour, as long as elements of the Scottish media, Scottish politicians and interest groups continue to sensationalise incidents based on their own prejudice or self interest.

We are in the absurd situation where last weekend Sky pundit, Andy Walker, laughed about sectarian abuse of Kris Boyd and then days later took the polar opposite approach to similar abuse of Steve Clarke. We have seen four BBC Scotland pundits and journalists completely ignore the sectarian abuse of Kris Boyd but comment extensively on social media following the Steve Clarke incident.

This is not just a media phenomenon, however. James Dornan MSP, a self styled sectarianism crusader who himself posed in front of a terrorist flag, ignored the sectarianism directed at Kris Boyd by fans of the club he supports, Celtic, but has now publicly demanded talks with Rangers over the Steve Clarke incident.

Groups like Nil By Mouth and Show Racism the Red Card Scotland have taken the same approach – they completely ignored “orange b****rd” chants directed at Boyd but immediately sprung into action when Steve Clarke spoke about the subject.

If the Scottish establishment is serious about tackling these issues then we should have a real debate about the causes and possible solutions. This will require discussing not just football, despite its higher profile, but having a fair and honest discussion about other contributing factors in society.

We sense absolutely no appetite in Scotland to have that debate – almost every comment on the subject is superficial, one eyed or sensationalised. The term ‘whataboutery’ is now routinely used to shoot down any voice that requests parity in the treatment of these events. In fact, the sum total of the debate thus far has been manufactured media outrage, politicians with an agenda to raise their own profile and groups who rely on the publicity around these issues, as they relate to football, for funding.

Club 1872 will be happy to take part in any honest dialogue on this subject, if such dialogue ever begins.

[The Green Goblin]

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Aren't these the jokers who blamed Lennon for him receiving sectarian abuse August 2017?


http://club1872.co.uk/news/club-1872...ble-behaviour/


Club 1872 Statement on Unacceptable Behaviour

22 February, 2019

Club 1872 fully supports the stance of Rangers and Rangers’ manager, Steven Gerrard in condemning all unacceptable behaviour in Scottish football. It is absolutely clear to us that Rangers has done and continues to do what it reasonably can to address this issue, which remains a problem amongst a minority of all clubs’ supporters and wider society. We will be happy to work with the club on future initiatives in this area.

Unfortunately we see absolutely no viable way to eradicate these sporadic instances of unacceptable behaviour, as long as elements of the Scottish media, Scottish politicians and interest groups continue to sensationalise incidents based on their own prejudice or self interest.

We are in the absurd situation where last weekend Sky pundit, Andy Walker, laughed about sectarian abuse of Kris Boyd and then days later took the polar opposite approach to similar abuse of Steve Clarke. We have seen four BBC Scotland pundits and journalists completely ignore the sectarian abuse of Kris Boyd but comment extensively on social media following the Steve Clarke incident.

This is not just a media phenomenon, however. James Dornan MSP, a self styled sectarianism crusader who himself posed in front of a terrorist flag, ignored the sectarianism directed at Kris Boyd by fans of the club he supports, Celtic, but has now publicly demanded talks with Rangers over the Steve Clarke incident.

Groups like Nil By Mouth and Show Racism the Red Card Scotland have taken the same approach – they completely ignored “orange b****rd” chants directed at Boyd but immediately sprung into action when Steve Clarke spoke about the subject.

If the Scottish establishment is serious about tackling these issues then we should have a real debate about the causes and possible solutions. This will require discussing not just football, despite its higher profile, but having a fair and honest discussion about other contributing factors in society.

We sense absolutely no appetite in Scotland to have that debate – almost every comment on the subject is superficial, one eyed or sensationalised. The term ‘whataboutery’ is now routinely used to shoot down any voice that requests parity in the treatment of these events. In fact, the sum total of the debate thus far has been manufactured media outrage, politicians with an agenda to raise their own profile and groups who rely on the publicity around these issues, as they relate to football, for funding.

Club 1872 will be happy to take part in any honest dialogue on this subject, if such dialogue ever begins.

They will never do anything. Ever. They know what goes on amongst their fans. Everyone knows.

[green day]

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Aren't these the jokers who blamed Lennon for him receiving sectarian abuse August 2017?


http://club1872.co.uk/news/club-1872...ble-behaviour/


Club 1872 Statement on Unacceptable Behaviour

Christ, that would be laughable if they hadnt actually spent time thinking it up........

[Paisley Hibby]

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The entire point is that it's not splitting hairs, there is a clear chasm in difference when it comes to sectarianism. Offensive singing? No, the gap is much narrower. They both sing about proscribed terrorist groups and are generally obsessed with the other.

But when it comes to sectarianism, to ignore the power relations of religion in Scotland is to do the sectarianism debate a disservice. Protestants and Catholics in this country did not start off on equal footing, and people tend to overlook that massively when examining sectarianism. There was no 'Catholic Action' or 'Scottish Catholic League' in the 1930s in Edinburgh or Glasgow.

There is a sizeable portion of Rangers' support who view both Celtic and us (and indeed the very existence of prominent Catholics within Scotland) as an attack on the dominance that they once enjoyed. Look at how they speak of the Scottish National Party, they frame it as a papal conspiracy that is taking over the country at every level. They even call them the SNPira, ffs.

Celtic (and Catholics by wider extension) have come from the other end to - just about - parity in the modern day. Can they still be sectarian? Yes, of course they can. Are they less likely to be? Equally, yes. I am not making a direct comparison here, but half a century ago, black people would be extremely unlikely to be racist towards white people in public for fear of reprisal. White people, by contrast, could be as racist as they liked towards black people and face zero consequences.

It had been openly acceptable at Rangers to be as intolerant and bigoted of Catholics as one pleased, up to and including the signing of Mo Johnston. The inverse just isn't true of Celtic. Their formation, much like ours, was a rallying against sectarianism.

The bottom line is this, there is a disturbed minority in this country who believe ours and Celtic's existence is, in and of itself, sectarian. We should not waste time trying to appease them by following this 'both sides as bad as each other' myth.

Again, to stress, I am atheist and have no grudge against either side. In fact, without taking this thread to the Holy Ground, there are parts of Catholicism that I am put off by far more than the CoS. But I can say, with near certainty, that this will never be solved until the elephant in the room is addressed, and that element is Rangers Football Club and a sizeable section of their support.

Hmmm. I'm a Catholic and as far as I'm concerned Celtic and Rangers are as bad as each other. Sure, Hibs faced anti-Irish bigotry when formed but we were not set up as a rallying initiative against that bigotry. Rather, we were originally about giving young Irish guys living in Edinburgh something productive to do and keeping them out of the pub. It was then discovered that they could also raise money for good causes - so much money in fact that Celtic were established to copy us (but were quickly hijacked by Glasgow Catholic business men with an eye for a quick buck wrapped in Catholic charity). Celtic and Rangers became a means by which tribal loyalties could be openly expressed and at its extreme this still spills into sectarian abuse. Both clubs could easily bring an end to this but don't because it keeps the cash coming in. And the fans of both sides want to keep this going because deep down they enjoy and condone it - no matter how much they protest otherwise.

[Rumble de Thump]

Rangers died. And if the football authorities and media hadn't been so desperate to pretend it hadn't, a massive part of this problem would have died with it. It was a huge opportunity wasted, but these people actively wanted to pass up the opportunity and have worked extremely hard to do so. Let's just move on.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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The entire point is that it's not splitting hairs, there is a clear chasm in difference when it comes to sectarianism. Offensive singing? No, the gap is much narrower. They both sing about proscribed terrorist groups and are generally obsessed with the other.

But when it comes to sectarianism, to ignore the power relations of religion in Scotland is to do the sectarianism debate a disservice. Protestants and Catholics in this country did not start off on equal footing, and people tend to overlook that massively when examining sectarianism. There was no 'Catholic Action' or 'Scottish Catholic League' in the 1930s in Edinburgh or Glasgow.

There is a sizeable portion of Rangers' support who view both Celtic and us (and indeed the very existence of prominent Catholics within Scotland) as an attack on the dominance that they once enjoyed. Look at how they speak of the Scottish National Party, they frame it as a papal conspiracy that is taking over the country at every level. They even call them the SNPira, ffs.

Celtic (and Catholics by wider extension) have come from the other end to - just about - parity in the modern day. Can they still be sectarian? Yes, of course they can. Are they less likely to be? Equally, yes. I am not making a direct comparison here, but half a century ago, black people would be extremely unlikely to be racist towards white people in public for fear of reprisal. White people, by contrast, could be as racist as they liked towards black people and face zero consequences.

It had been openly acceptable at Rangers to be as intolerant and bigoted of Catholics as one pleased, up to and including the signing of Mo Johnston. The inverse just isn't true of Celtic. Their formation, much like ours, was a rallying against sectarianism.

The bottom line is this, there is a disturbed minority in this country who believe ours and Celtic's existence is, in and of itself, sectarian. We should not waste time trying to appease them by following this 'both sides as bad as each other' myth.

Again, to stress, I am atheist and have no grudge against either side. In fact, without taking this thread to the Holy Ground, there are parts of Catholicism that I am put off by far more than the CoS. But I can say, with near certainty, that this will never be solved until the elephant in the room is addressed, and that element is Rangers Football Club and a sizeable section of their support.

I have to agree: when it comes to religious bigotry, it is not fifty-fifty, as Rangers are far worse and always have been. The Rangers are far more anti-Catholic than Celtc are anti-Protestant. When it comes to Irish politics, they certainly are equally culpable and both revel in tribalism and hatred.

[The Modfather]

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I have to agree: when it comes to religious bigotry, it is not fifty-fifty, as Rangers are far worse and always have been. The Rangers are far more anti-Catholic than Celtc are anti-Protestant. When it comes to Irish politics, they certainly are equally culpable and both revel in tribalism and hatred.

But surely Irish politics, in the context of Scottish football, is intertwined with religion and sectarianism? So singing about the IRA or Fenians in the bizarre world of Old Firm fans is one and the same, and not actually anything do with the political aspect.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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But surely Irish politics, in the context of Scottish football, is intertwined with religion and sectarianism? So singing about the IRA or Fenians in the bizarre world of Old Firm fans is one and the same, and not actually anything do with the political aspect.

No, I don't think so. Singing FTP or No Pope of Rome, has nothing to do with Irish politics.

[The Modfather]

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No, I don't think so. Singing FTP or No Pope of Rome, has nothing to do with Irish politics.

That’s my point though. I don’t think any of it has any relevance to Irish Politics. When they sing about the IRA or the Queen etc they aren’t actually singing about Irish Politics or The Monarchy, in the black and white warped world of the old Firm everything relates back to either sitting on the Catholic side or the Protestant side.

[The Harp Awakes]

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I have to agree: when it comes to religious bigotry, it is not fifty-fifty, as Rangers are far worse and always have been. The Rangers are far more anti-Catholic than Celtc are anti-Protestant. When it comes to Irish politics, they certainly are equally culpable and both revel in tribalism and hatred.

Totally agree with you mate. The Rangers have a far bigger problem with religious bigotry amongst their support than Celtic. It's convenient for the media to call it a joint problem, as they won't face the wrath of the Rangers as much as they would if they singled them out.

[Hibernia&Alba]

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That’s my point though. I don’t think any of it has any relevance to Irish Politics. When they sing about the IRA or the Queen etc they aren’t actually singing about Irish Politics or The Monarchy, in the black and white warped world of the old Firm everything relates back to either sitting on the Catholic side or the Protestant side.

I'm not sure about that. Overt anti-Catholicism is far more prevalent amongst Rangers fans than anti-Protestantism is amongst the lesser greens. You only need look at any fans forum to see this. Very rarely do Celtc fans sing about the queen or Protestants. The religious dimension is not an equal balance: the anti-Catholicism/anti-Irish sentiment at Rangers far outweighs any corresponding views amongst Celtic fans, though that doesn't diminish the IRA nonsense. Bigotry is very much a problem at Celtc, even if the emphasis is different.

[Antonyopus]

This is so very easy to remedy - deduct points from the team end of.