That would be putting lipstick on a pig.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
The issue of sectarianism and the behaviour of the Old Firm fans goes well beyond the 90 minutes every weekend.
It's only by destroying sectarianism entirely from Scottish culture that any change will be enacted with effect. I can't see that in my lifetime.
Until then, we're going to continue hearing about fenian and orange *******s, the IRA, the UVF, papists, Big Jock and his knowledge, Palestine, Israel, Bobby Sands, the Pope...
Results 121 to 150 of 256
Thread: Steve Clarke
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21-02-2019 12:21 PM #121
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21-02-2019 12:34 PM #122This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteHIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875
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21-02-2019 12:35 PM #123
In France, closed doors matches (along with fines) are imposed when spectators are out of order. A couple of weeks ago, Marseille had to play Bordeaux behind closed doors after someone chucked a flare on the pitch at a previous match.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_SeE4lmcd0
Also Lille v Amiens at the end of last season.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_-jbp6VE5E
In October of last year, the French League closed one of Montpelier's end stands for 3 matches (1 suspended) as a punishment for supporter misbehaviour.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsnWD-K-O_g
I think similar sanctions would do the trick in Scotland.
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21-02-2019 02:04 PM #124This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
It bloomin' well IS!
It's the only environment your hear this stuff in.
It's the festering bile you get from mindless bigots who go to football games with their "folk songs"(copyright Donald Finlay QC) UVF and IRA flags that fuel the whole thing IMO.
Nowhere else in society does this exist.
There may be differences in the dwindling numbers attending Church on Sundays and certain bigots will go on about schools but that is rally not an issue.Both State and Catholic schools give a balanced broadly Christian education to children and do not indoctrinate them in bigotry.
Football nurtures maintains and encourages this.The Old Firm and the SFA condone it.Money and vested interests don't want any change.
PS Never a sending off and clear penalty!
refs are a different issue (aren't they?!)Last edited by hughio; 21-02-2019 at 02:06 PM.
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21-02-2019 02:23 PM #125This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Have you visited any town in West Central Scotland recently? This stuff is still there at the surface, even in professional walks of life. Folk might wrap a flag or colour around it for posterity's sake, but sectarianism and faux-political assocations are rife in certain communities. There are platforms where it's most openly "performed", and many of these performances are often associated with football, but the continued popularity of Orange and Republican walks that bring Glasgow (and satellite towns) to a halt through the summer suggest this extends well beyond the locales of Parkhead and Ibrox.
Schools ARE a problem - not in the sense that faith schools foster this type of bigotry or vice versa for State schools etc, but find me a playground or classroom anywhere in the Central Belt where kids aren't subject to abuse that has a religious tint. Christ, I'm still asked what school I went to as a kid as a proxy for working out if I'm a Tim or a Hun. Never mind that I finished school 15 years ago and have spent the remainder of that time working my way through 3 universities and now work in the HE sector - my school is still a consideration.
The legacy of sectarianism is engrained in regions of Scottish culture - why else do you think we get random Aberdeen, Kilmarnock or Motherwell fans calling us Fenian *******s, or Rangers/Hearts Orange *******s? This **** goes beyond footballing allegiance, but I DO agree with you that the Scottish football authorities and clubs have a vested interest - Rangers and Celtc built their footballing empires on this ideology and have no interest in attacking their base.
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21-02-2019 02:38 PM #126
Don’t worry everyone, the SFA are going to sort it all out.
https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/sc...uct/?rid=13929
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21-02-2019 02:39 PM #127
The Rangers have made a statement saying unacceptable behaviour will not be tolerated at Ibrox.
Thank goodness they're taking a firm line.
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21-02-2019 02:40 PM #128This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show QuoteHIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875
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21-02-2019 02:46 PM #129This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
What came first though; the chicken or the egg?
Undoubtably there's been an historic schism but
I am saying "the fitba" fosters and incubates the majority the problem.It is the vehicle for its continuation.
Yes, I've seen west central Scotland the marches etc.Ive seen the red white and blue fences in the schemes.Quite pathetic really.I cannot say Ive seen much evidence of it in my professional life though.that would be scorned by most intelligent folk.
The bigger evil and by far the most influential factor in the continuation of this mindset is The Ugly Sisters.
In my lifetime so many progressive changes have occurred for women in particular;gay rights; anti fascism;racism etc .Yet this particular brand of anti-deluvian behaviour is tolerated only here in Scotland and is fostered by the collusion between the big two and their cohorts in the SFA.Last edited by hughio; 21-02-2019 at 02:55 PM.
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21-02-2019 02:52 PM #130This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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21-02-2019 03:03 PM #131This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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21-02-2019 03:08 PM #132
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21-02-2019 03:15 PM #133This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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21-02-2019 03:18 PM #134This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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21-02-2019 04:15 PM #135This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
It’s too simplistic to say Rangers fans sing songs about fennian this and fenian that while Celtic fans songs technically aren’t sectarian. For both supports the root cause for what they sing is sectarianism. Are we to believe that when Celtic fans sing about the Queen etc it is merely an anti royal sentiment? Let’s be honest, the Queen equates to Protestantism in a lot of Celtic fans eyes. That’s just an example of the kind of point I’m trying to make.
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21-02-2019 04:27 PM #136This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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21-02-2019 04:34 PM #137This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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21-02-2019 04:44 PM #138This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Sectarianism has all but disappeared in these cities so you have to ask why it continues in west central Scotland. Like the above poster im convinced the OF perpetuate a division which in an essentially secular Scotland is as much to do with tribal labels as any actual religious beliefs. The old "joke" are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist applies to the vast bulk of present day OF fans. That means it should be easier now than at any time for the OF to take stronger action but they know its these labels that drags the knuckle draggers through the turnstiles. And of course the football authorities and bulk of the media are complicit in this state of affairs refusing to speak out or take any effective action against the OF.
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21-02-2019 04:51 PM #139
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I am republican myself, I dislike the monarchy as a concept greatly and would be delighted if it were abolished tomorrow. There are lots of Celtic fans who will share this view. For some, you are right, it will be seeing the Queen as a figurehead of a (Protestant) establishment and therefore singing unsavoury things about her.
But again I come back to the punching up vs punching down dynamic of Protestants and Catholics in this country that I observe as neutrally as I can, bring an atheist myself. Is singing “**** the Queen” crass, pointless and unnecessary? Yes, for sure.
However, consider who is being ‘targeted’ in that sectarianism there. The (decorative) Head of State in one of the most powerful countries in history. When Rangers sing about fenian *******s, hating Roman Catholics and especially being up to their knees in fenian blood, they are targeting a minority in this country who suffered persecution spanning decades upon decades.
I’m not trying to explain away Celtic’s sectarianism, it is bad and they need to be doing a lot more than they’re currently doing to stamp it out. However, the ‘two teams as bad as each other’ myth perpetuates sectarianism in Scotland, at least in my opinion. It indirectly validates Rangers’ (far worse) sectarianism, because they are told that Celtic are as bad, when they objectively just aren’t.
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21-02-2019 05:09 PM #140This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
You rightly say we will never know exactly what's in their heads.
I'd say its akin to a Punch and Judy show,mock theatre and a lot of habitual unthinking father-following.
Must say when I first heard the Rangers en mass singing No one likes us etc ringing up between the tenements behind Easter Rd many years ago it made me nauseus.The self-congratulatory shameless ignorant bile of it.Have never felt that from the Celtc hoards.
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21-02-2019 05:16 PM #141This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
IMO we can correlate the Celtic support singing about the Queen, booing remembrance silences, and singing about the IRA etc. On the face of it each can be explained away as to why they are not sectarian, but for me the root of why these non footballing songs are sung is Sectarianisim and a one upmanship in a rivalry that is fuelled by sectarianism. Remove sectarianism from the Old Firm and it’s just another Villa v Birmingham type of derby.
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21-02-2019 05:18 PM #142
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A curious take on it by Potter:
Hearts manager Craig Levein said "every manager gets abuse" and believes the incidents at matches are part of "a society problem".
"How we stop it I don't know," he added. "The problem with strict liability is if you want to mess around and cause trouble if you are a supporter of another club, you buy tickets for your nearest rival and shout sectarian abuse. Then you get the club fined.
"So what's to stop that?"
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21-02-2019 05:21 PM #143
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21-02-2019 05:57 PM #144
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21-02-2019 06:14 PM #145
Football is not responsible for all parts of society, i'ts responsible for what happens on a Saturday at grounds all over the country.
They could stamp it out at football by deducting points and closing stadiums, its probably wont stop it in the pubs or houses, but i dont frequent those pubs and houses, and Saturday would be a much more pleasant day out without that bile.
If we had these clowns disrupting movies in the cinema, they'd be thrown out and banned, no other entertainment puts up with this, it is a football problem and one that is easily sorted if there was a will.
People have to want rid of this problem, but when it's ingrained into the folk who are running the show, we've no chance.
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21-02-2019 06:50 PM #146This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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21-02-2019 07:21 PM #147This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
Craig Levein would have to come up with such a scenario now wouldnt he. Guy is a helmet ..
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21-02-2019 07:24 PM #148
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Think it's about time for one of these wonderful articles.I remember two headlines
"The greatest derby in the world" and
"The Old Firm ,the envy of the football world".
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21-02-2019 07:50 PM #149This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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21-02-2019 07:53 PM #150
there's obviously no laws available at the moment if the scottish government are asking the football bosses to do more
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