Steve Clarke

[Hibernia&Alba]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Unfortunately, clubs like ours know that the old firm fans shout the loudest, and have the most influence in the "corridors of power", and rather than being used to sort out a predominantly West coast issue, strict liability would see our clubs getting hammered the hardest.

Correctly applied, the Old Firm would have a choice under strict liability: behave in a civilised manner or be decimated.

League fixtures - one point deduction for each sectarian/racist/homophobic chant cited.
Cup fixtures - tie forfeited

Let's see how the bigots with big mooths handle that.

[BILLYHIBS]

In his excellent book a Season with Verona Tim Park explains how the Italian FA dealt with the rise of racism and neo facism in Serie A in the early noughties.

They simply said any club that continued with racist facist or political abuse through chanting or banners would simply have their stadiums closed down

This resulted in all right thinking fans shouting down any racist/political chants and pulling down any racist political homophobic banners

It worked

[Bostonhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I don't see them putting ''Anti-semitism'' in quotes during the current ''news'' frenzy.

BBC Scotland runs itself along similar lines to the Scottish Football authorities. They have allegiances driven by the make up of the people they employ, you could generously call the bias favouritism but it's institutionalised and is deep rooted. Sadly it's not going away any time soon.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Diclonius]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

In his excellent book a Season with Verona Tim Park explains how the Italian FA dealt with the rise of racism and neo facism in Serie A in the early noughties.

They simply said any club that continued with racist facist or political abuse through chanting or banners would simply have their stadiums closed down

This resulted in all right thinking fans shouting down any racist/political chants and pulling down any racist political homophobic banners

It worked

If this was implemented here:

"EASTER ROAD has been closed to spectators ahead of Hibs' clash with Rangers on Sunday."

"TYNECASTLE will host no fans as Hearts face Celtic due to allegations of sectarian chanting from the Jam Tarts in prior matches."

"THE SFA have announced that Pittodrie will be closed for the remainder of the season following allegations of Dons fans chanting "go home ya Huns" in a recent fixture against Rangers. This is expected to derail Aberdeen's title bid, with them currently 2 points clear at the top."

"HAMPDEN PARK will be given entirely to Rangers fans ahead of the Scottish Cup Final with Hibs, the SFA have announced. The national body have explained the decision is down to reports of sectarian chanting in the semi-final win over Celtic."

Meanwhile 50k fans sing whatever they want at Ibrox and Parkhead every other week.

[Hibernia&Alba]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If this was implemented here:

"EASTER ROAD has been closed to spectators ahead of Hibs' clash with Rangers on Sunday."
"TYNECASTLE will host no fans as Hearts face Celtic due to allegations of sectarian chanting from the Jam Tarts in prior matches."

"THE SFA have announced that Pittodrie will be closed for the remainder of the season following allegations of Dons fans chanting "go home ya Huns" in a recent fixture against Rangers. This is expected to derail Aberdeen's title bid, with them currently 2 points clear at the top."

"HAMPDEN PARK will be given entirely to Rangers fans ahead of the Scottish Cup Final with Hibs, the SFA have announced. The national body have explained the decision is down to reports of sectarian chanting in the semi-final win over Celtic."

Meanwhile 50k fans sing whatever they want at Ibrox and Parkhead every other week.

Or you could just ban the away fans, due to poor conduct. See how they cope with that, too.

Fines, point deductions, banned from the cups, stadium closures, no away support. That or yet more empty words from the authorities.

[BILLYHIBS]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’ve just seen the Killie penalty incident, and the keepers red card, if anything on the bbc website should be in inverted commas, it’s “referee”.

If that pen incident had been the other way about then the “referee” would’ve pointed to the spot before the rangers player had even hit the ground.

As for the red card...”officials” see rangers player has gone down. Ignore the fact that nobody has seen anything, just send someone off.

Just watched this incident on YouTube

It is a shocker

Hun corner

Keeper stretches as Keepers do as if to touch his crossbar and get his bearings for incoming corner

Kamara standing beside the goalie goes down as if shot by a sniper

Straight red

Minimal contact if any

Only person that thought there was any infringement was the Ref

Killie to appeal

Why no penalty awarded if dismissed for violent conduct?

[HibeeHibernian4]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’m happy he’s brought it up. Bit annoying that he didn’t do the same on Sunday when it was the Celtc fans though. Both as bad as each other and it’s a problem that’ll never get fixed.

Not in the business of defending Celtic, but they really, really aren't ''both as bad as each other".

[Diclonius]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not in the business of defending Celtic, but they really, really aren't ''both as bad as each other".

Celtic are equally complicit in the fact that they categorically refuse to accept their part of the problem.

[BILLYHIBS]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If this was implemented here:

"EASTER ROAD has been closed to spectators ahead of Hibs' clash with Rangers on Sunday."

"TYNECASTLE will host no fans as Hearts face Celtic due to allegations of sectarian chanting from the Jam Tarts in prior matches."

"THE SFA have announced that Pittodrie will be closed for the remainder of the season following allegations of Dons fans chanting "go home ya Huns" in a recent fixture against Rangers. This is expected to derail Aberdeen's title bid, with them currently 2 points clear at the top."

"HAMPDEN PARK will be given entirely to Rangers fans ahead of the Scottish Cup Final with Hibs, the SFA have announced. The national body have explained the decision is down to reports of sectarian chanting in the semi-final win over Celtic."

Meanwhile 50k fans sing whatever they want at Ibrox and Parkhead every other week.

Financial implication

No need for fines

Clubs would be unable to survive unless they get their own houses in order

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Just watched this incident on YouTube

It is a shocker

Hun corner

Keeper stretches as Keepers do as if to touch his crossbar and get his bearings for incoming corner

Kamara standing beside the goalie goes down as if shot by a sniper

Straight red

Minimal contact if any

Only person that thought there was any infringement was the Ref

Killie to appeal

Why no penalty awarded if dismissed for violent conduct?

Maybe have a look at this. Looks like a red to me.

https://twitter.com/IbroxChat/status...13212771840001




BTW, couldn't award a penalty as the ball was dead at the time.

[Heisenberg]

Certainly looks like the Killie keeper deliberately elbows him. Red card seems right to me.

[BILLYHIBS]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe have a look at this. Looks like a red to me.

https://twitter.com/IbroxChat/status...13212771840001




BTW, couldn't award a penalty as the ball was dead at the time.

I stand corrected

Just watched your link on another thread

Red card

[Diclonius]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe have a look at this. Looks like a red to me.

https://twitter.com/IbroxChat/status...13212771840001




BTW, couldn't award a penalty as the ball was dead at the time.

Tell that to Alan Freeland.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/7165323.stm

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Tell that to Alan Freeland.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...em/7165323.stm

I just did....

Neilson had been waiting to take a throw-in following the red card but the incident had occurred when the ball was in play.

[BILLYHIBS]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe have a look at this. Looks like a red to me.

https://twitter.com/IbroxChat/status...13212771840001




BTW, couldn't award a penalty as the ball was dead at the time.

In my defence this was my first view of the incident

They say HibsTV is bad!

https://youtu.be/1MpnYnyCSic

[PatHead]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe have a look at this. Looks like a red to me.

https://twitter.com/IbroxChat/status...13212771840001





BTW, couldn't award a penalty as the ball was dead at the time.

Seem to remember Hibs getting a penalty against Strasbourg when someone punched Ally McLeod while waiting for a corner. Guy was sent off as well.

[HibeeHibernian4]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Celtic are equally complicit in the fact that they categorically refuse to accept their part of the problem.

Complicit? Yes. Equally complicit? No chance, in my opinion.

They are part of the problem, you're right about that. But at the moment, their level of sectarianism is about on par with Hearts'. They've (recently) ramped up the 'orange' this and 'orange' that. Before that, however, Celtic almost never sang anything that was openly sectarian.

People conflate two separate things here, Celtic sing about proscribed terrorist groups. Are they complete tools for doing so? Yes, of course. Are they being sectarian by doing so? No. Some of the most influential members in Irish nationalist history were protestants (Parnell and Childers, for example). And while there were sectarian undertones to some of the Troubles, it was not the primary factor. Well, at least until the UVF got involved and started deciding that catholic = fenian = IRA terrorist.

Rangers used to actually have the high ground in terms of not singing about proscribed terrorist groups, but they have brought some of the older songs back, and now regularly sing about them coming down the road with the UVF and about the UDR Four. So they've completely forfeited whatever sense of superiority they had in that regard.

Here is the fundamental difference, Rangers' songbook is littered with sectarianism:
- "up to our knees in fenian blood"
- "we hate Celtic, fenian *******s"
- "cheer up Alan Stubbs/Neil Lennon, oh what can it be, to a sad fenian *******"
- "Dundee, Hamilton, **** the Pope and the Vatican"
- "**** the Pope and the IRA"
- "we hate Catholics, everybody hates, Roman Catholics."

It is wholly disingenuous to pretend that Celtic's songbook is remotely as bad in that regard. They (occasionally) sing song number three about Warburton/Levein/Gerrard, but here's where the distinction lies. Gerrard isn't "Orange". Gerrard is from a Catholic background. With Rangers, they know and care about which of their opposing managers are "fenians". Derek McInnes and Craig Levein are never told to cheer up, for example. It is reserved for known Catholics - which for the uneducated Ibrox masses usually means "they played for Celtic".

I came to the conclusion that the religious divide in Scotland does not mean the same thing to Celtic fans as it does to Rangers. The dynamic of power between Protestants and Catholics in this country means that many Rangers fans see Celtic (and Hibs') existence as a personal affront to their way of life and their general dominance. Scottish Catholics were, for many decades, subjugated by many and treated as second class citizens. It is, to an extent, the same argument about whether black people can be racist towards white people. You would have to first remove the context of centuries of slavery and hegemony before you could even begin to answer it.

I wouldn't have had any objection to Clarke calling out the Celtic fans for their own sectarianism on Sunday, by the way. They need to curb theirs too, but it is in no way comparable to Rangers'. And until the authorities realise that there is one primary offending party, they will forever be trying to appease both sides. They need to grow some balls and start clamping down on the root cause of this, and that is the superiority culture attached with both Rangers in a socio-political/religious sense and, maybe above all, the Orange Order.

[hibsbollah]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe have a look at this. Looks like a red to me.

https://twitter.com/IbroxChat/status...13212771840001




BTW, couldn't award a penalty as the ball was dead at the time.

Very very difficult to spot that at the time. You have to ask yourself, at Ibrox, bearing in mind the distance between ref and incident, would be have given it the other way? That's the reality.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Very very difficult to spot that at the time. You have to ask yourself, at Ibrox, bearing in mind the distance between ref and incident, would be have given it the other way? That's the reality.

I am guessing that the fourth official, or the linesman, spotted it.

[Crazyhorse]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Very very difficult to spot that at the time. You have to ask yourself, at Ibrox, bearing in mind the distance between ref and incident, would be have given it the other way? That's the reality.

That's probably true you only have to look at the stonewall penalty given at the other end. But in the end, with a group of officials clearly itching to ensure the 'right' result for their friends in blue, this was a dumb action by the keeper.

[BullsCloseHibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

i like this guy

Me too. He tells it how it is. Like him a lot now.

[brog]

Alan Muir didn't give us a penalty when a Falkirk player tucked the ball under his arm & walked out the box with it. After clearing the ball he then deliberately assaulted SJM while the ball was about 30 yards away. No card was given. By his own exalted standards Muir was a beacon of light last night.

[Crazyhorse]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If this was implemented here:

"EASTER ROAD has been closed to spectators ahead of Hibs' clash with Rangers on Sunday."

"TYNECASTLE will host no fans as Hearts face Celtic due to allegations of sectarian chanting from the Jam Tarts in prior matches."

"THE SFA have announced that Pittodrie will be closed for the remainder of the season following allegations of Dons fans chanting "go home ya Huns" in a recent fixture against Rangers. This is expected to derail Aberdeen's title bid, with them currently 2 points clear at the top."

"HAMPDEN PARK will be given entirely to Rangers fans ahead of the Scottish Cup Final with Hibs, the SFA have announced. The national body have explained the decision is down to reports of sectarian chanting in the semi-final win over Celtic."

Meanwhile 50k fans sing whatever they want at Ibrox and Parkhead every other week.

The alternative is to do nothing. Changing the mentality in Scotland around sectarianism and bigotry will be a huge challenge and might be disruptive to football (where it most publically manifests itself) but it is a price worth paying. It has clearly historically benefitted the two sectarian clubs but unless one is concerned about the impact on them I can't see what the argument for putting off action to tackle it is.

[Stevie Reid]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I am guessing that the fourth official, or the linesman, spotted it.

Referee seems to check with the linesman that it's a red before he issued it. It is an elbow to the face, and if it were Bachmann on a Hibs player we would all be wanting him off.

Penalty incident isn't a stonewaller either, if it were a Hibs attacker I'd claim for it, if it were a Hibs defender and it were given, I'd be raging - would be very soft.

We have some total clowns refereeing in Scotland, but I think those two incidents were called correctly last night.

[Paisley Hibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Not in the business of defending Celtic, but they really, really aren't ''both as bad as each other".

You better get your tin hat on 😉

One is a bad as the other if you ask me.

[OstKurve Hibs]

Michael Stewart saying it's a hard thing to police the sectarian chanting, not if the sfa grow some bawsand close a section of the stadium. Won't ever happen tho

[Argylehibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Allegedly, a west of Scotland football fan.

Based on the competition was it not a West of Scotland Scottish Cup fan?

[J-C]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Maybe have a look at this. Looks like a red to me.

https://twitter.com/IbroxChat/status...13212771840001




BTW, couldn't award a penalty as the ball was dead at the time.

1st time I've seen it from that angle and it's a straight red right enough, what I don't understand is why it's not a penalty? is it because the ball is not yet in play awaiting a corner, so the only course the ref can take is send off the keeper, then carry on with play from the corner.

[CropleyWasGod]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

1st time I've seen it from that angle and it's a straight red right enough, what I don't understand is why it's not a penalty? is it because the ball is not yet in play awaiting a corner, so the only course the ref can take is send off the keeper, then carry on with play from the corner.

That's how I understand it.

[Mick O'Rourke]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You better get your tin hat on ��

One is a bad as the other if you ask me.

I fail to see why HFCE would need a tin hat.

His post at #107 here is worth reading,if you really believe that"one is a bad as the other"

Although you don't say what the other is "bad" at

If you are referring to bigotry /sectarianism.

There is no comparison.

None whatsoever.