Who's Bill Leckie?

[Keith_M]

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So, what about the hickies then?


Are we guessing who HAD them, or who GAVE them?

Hickey-nbottom?

[Hibbyradge]

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5 pages is surprising when none of you read “that rag”.

You'll have seen the OP?

[Hibbyradge]

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Hickey-nbottom?

Very good 👍

[heretoday]

I'm delighted to say that in The Scotsman newspaper today there is no mention whatsoever of HFC.
Whether this reflects badly on the paper itself is open to debate but it makes a refreshing change.

[Broken Gnome]

You've got interviews with Lennon in the press today - nothing untoward said - which are nicely timed with the first utterances from Michael Appleton about HIBS NOT MATCHING HIS AMBITION.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

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I didn't know that you put stories out at all, never mind in the hope that they're picked up by hibs.net.

Wouldn't it be more straightforward just to start a thread?

But that wouldn’t drive traffic / clicks -> advertising revenues for a battered industry

That’s why we have controversy and pundits/journos stirring it up.

[green day]

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You've got interviews with Lennon in the press today - nothing untoward said - which are nicely timed with the first utterances from Michael Appleton about HIBS NOT MATCHING HIS AMBITION.

Appleton on Sky, asked about what went wrong -

“I think if I answer that honestly and truthfully, I would probably come across as being arrogant and disrespectful, which is a million miles away from the truth,” he said"

“I will look for that club that shares the same ambitions that I have got myself"

Not too fussed about this guy now, tbh, but he's entitled to his opinion.

His "ambition" might have been "can I have £5m to spend" in which case, he is right....we won't match it!!

[The Harp Awakes]

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Appleton on Sky, asked about what went wrong -

“I think if I answer that honestly and truthfully, I would probably come across as being arrogant and disrespectful, which is a million miles away from the truth,” he said"

“I will look for that club that shares the same ambitions that I have got myself"

Not too fussed about this guy now, tbh, but he's entitled to his opinion.

His "ambition" might have been "can I have £5m to spend" in which case, he is right....we won't match it!!

I don't think ambition is purely about how big the transfer kitty is. A few decades ago Villareal came from nowhere to challenge the established clubs in Spain over many seasons. Their transfer kitty was a fraction of that of Barcelona and Real Madrid. Ambition is about thinking you can be better and setting a clear and tangible goal. Personally, I don't think it's impossible to challenge Rangers and Celtic. I'm not sure many at Hibs actually believe that though, and probably not many supporters.

[bigwheel]

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Appleton on Sky, asked about what went wrong -

“I think if I answer that honestly and truthfully, I would probably come across as being arrogant and disrespectful, which is a million miles away from the truth,” he said"

“I will look for that club that shares the same ambitions that I have got myself"

Not too fussed about this guy now, tbh, but he's entitled to his opinion.

His "ambition" might have been "can I have £5m to spend" in which case, he is right....we won't match it!!

His quote Would suggest he felt he is to big / good for us ...if we wouldn’t match his ambition it would only be due to our financial constraints..there would be no use is spending more than we can for any manager..sounds like, regardless how good a coach he may be, he wasn’t the right guy for us

[ian cruise]

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Appleton on Sky, asked about what went wrong -

“I think if I answer that honestly and truthfully, I would probably come across as being arrogant and disrespectful, which is a million miles away from the truth,” he said"

“I will look for that club that shares the same ambitions that I have got myself"

Not too fussed about this guy now, tbh, but he's entitled to his opinion.

His "ambition" might have been "can I have £5m to spend" in which case, he is right....we won't match it!!

If you thnk your answer will sound as, if you are being arrogant and disrespectful then there's a good chance is that you are being arrogant and disrespectful. It's a bit like someone saying "I don't want to be rude but..."

Sounds like he's trying to cover his back after some of the stories about his requests (I've no idea how true they were) in the hope they haven't put off other suitors. I suspect he fancies himself too big for Scottish football knowing he's not going to win the title and seeing the level of job managers from the SPFL get offered down south. He's possibly right and getting a job as a number 2 at a bigger club is possibly more attractive a CV to other English clubs than managing up here due to the arrogant opinion the leagues have of themselves.

[brog]

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I don't think ambition is purely about how big the transfer kitty is. A few decades ago Villareal came from nowhere to challenge the established clubs in Spain over many seasons. Their transfer kitty was a fraction of that of Barcelona and Real Madrid. Ambition is about thinking you can be better and setting a clear and tangible goal. Personally, I don't think it's impossible to challenge Rangers and Celtic. I'm not sure many at Hibs actually believe that though, and probably not many supporters.

You will always get one offs such as your example & Leicester but there's a clear &.proven correlation between spend & success. It wss no coincidence that Chelsea & Man C won the league for the 1st time in 50 & 40 years respectively after they were bought by billionaires.

[green day]

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I don't think ambition is purely about how big the transfer kitty is. A few decades ago Villareal came from nowhere to challenge the established clubs in Spain over many seasons. Their transfer kitty was a fraction of that of Barcelona and Real Madrid. Ambition is about thinking you can be better and setting a clear and tangible goal. Personally, I don't think it's impossible to challenge Rangers and Celtic. I'm not sure many at Hibs actually believe that though, and probably not many supporters.

I know what you are saying, but if he said "I want to challenge for the title within the bounds of the existing financials" do you seriously think Leeann D would say "nah, not for us, see ya"?

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His quote Would suggest he felt he is to big / good for us ...if we wouldn’t match his ambition it would only be due to our financial constraints..there would be no use is spending more than we can for any manager..sounds like, regardless how good a coach he may be, he wasn’t the right guy for us

Agreed

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If you thnk your answer will sound as, if you are being arrogant and disrespectful then there's a good chance is that you are being arrogant and disrespectful. It's a bit like someone saying "I don't want to be rude but..."

Sounds like he's trying to cover his back after some of the stories about his requests (I've no idea how true they were) in the hope they haven't put off other suitors. I suspect he fancies himself too big for Scottish football knowing he's not going to win the title and seeing the level of job managers from the SPFL get offered down south. He's possibly right and getting a job as a number 2 at a bigger club is possibly more attractive a CV to other English clubs than managing up here due to the arrogant opinion the leagues have of themselves.

I suspect you are right - its interesting, because it could be another negative side effect of the trickle down of EPL tv money - i.e. even out of work coaches have made enough dough at their previous roles that when (what we think is) an attractive job in Scotland comes around, some might just say "nah, the overall salary, transfer kitty etc etc just isnt enough".

Might not be the case, we will never know.

[Sammy7nil]

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Appleton on Sky, asked about what went wrong -

“I think if I answer that honestly and truthfully, I would probably come across as being arrogant and disrespectful, which is a million miles away from the truth,” he said"

“I will look for that club that shares the same ambitions that I have got myself"

Not too fussed about this guy now, tbh, but he's entitled to his opinion.

His "ambition" might have been "can I have £5m to spend" in which case, he is right....we won't match it!!

Did they ask if he was formally offered the job - I would expect not so perhaps he did not meet Hibs criteria

[Lago]

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I don't think ambition is purely about how big the transfer kitty is. A few decades ago Villareal came from nowhere to challenge the established clubs in Spain over many seasons. Their transfer kitty was a fraction of that of Barcelona and Real Madrid. Ambition is about thinking you can be better and setting a clear and tangible goal. Personally, I don't think it's impossible to challenge Rangers and Celtic. I'm not sure many at Hibs actually believe that though, and probably not many supporters.

Challenge the OF, I use to think Hibs could, not anymore though we seem to be more content being a community club now a days.

[bigwheel]

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Challenge the OF, I use to think Hibs could, not anymore though we seem to be more content being a community club now a days.

is that implying we lack ambition? Over many years it has shown that money drives success in football, with very very few exceptions - for example: Leicester were still incredibly well funded when they had their "miracle"...

With our level of funding, we can only hope for incredible exceptional silverware achievements...

[Stevie Reid]

IF Appleton was impressive enough to have been offered the job, then surely he would have been offered the same length of deal (3.5 years) that PH eventually signed. It says a lot about his ambition and mindset if he decided against it due to a disagreement over what he would get if he were sacked.

[matty_f]

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Challenge the OF, I use to think Hibs could, not anymore though we seem to be more content being a community club now a days.

What do you base that on, and isn't it possible to be a top club that is also rooted in the community?

I don't think your point makes sense, to be honest.

[matty_f]

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IF Appleton was impressive enough to have been offered the job, then surely he would have been offered the same length of deal (3.5 years) that PH eventually signed. It says a lot about his ambition and mindset if he decided against it due to a disagreement over what he would get if he were sacked.

I can't get my head around the 'ambition' argument.

Leeann Dempster said that she wants us to be participating in European football regularly through league position (which I think is top 4) or via winning the Scottish Cup. This would, presumably, be the measure of success and a minimum requirement.

If Appleton is more ambitious than that then he's looking for top 3 at worst, or winning the league at best.

Presumably he would want us to spend to achieve that, but the gap between what we can spend and what Celtic and Rangers can spend (before even considering Hearts and Aberdeen) is so vast as to be absurd to think we could bridge it.

So if he's *more* ambitious than the board, is he just setting himself up to fail? Would it have made a difference if Dempster had said we want to win the league (but he'll have to be good enough to do it on our budget)?

Is that being more ambitious?

The idea that a football club - and I mean pretty much any football club here, not just Hibs, wouldn't be ambitious is absurd.

If you asked the Chairman of St Johnstone if he wants to win the league of course he would say yes, but relative to their spend he would aim for top 6 and consider that ambitious. I'm sure the Hamilton owner would have ambitions to win the league but targetting staying in the league is more realistic to where they are.

What else, other than spend, would limit ambition? Hibs' set up is designed to get the team over-performing (better than the sum of its parts).

The structure that has had so much coverage recently means that we have things in place to do the best we can with recruitment, with analysis, with coaching, with conditioning, with diet and so on.

If you had no ambition, why bother?

The argument does not stand up to any scrutiny?

You can shout about not replacing John McGinn or McGeouch and say that wasn't ambitious, but the reality is that these players aren't readily replacable - if they were then guess what - the bigger teams would be hoovering up the alternatives.

That's not being unambitious. That's just the reality of being a club our size.

If someone could better explain what they mean when they say we aren't ambitious, I'd love to hear it - I genuinely don't understand what people are expecting when they talk about ambition now.

[weecounty hibby]

Sounds like the excuses of someone who wasn't actually offered the job. I believe Leeann when she says no one else was offered the job except PH. And if true that he asked for 12 month's pay for severance then he didn't really back himself to be successful. His loss not being at our club

[Stevie Reid]

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I can't get my head around the 'ambition' argument.

Leeann Dempster said that she wants us to be participating in European football regularly through league position (which I think is top 4) or via winning the Scottish Cup. This would, presumably, be the measure of success and a minimum requirement.

If Appleton is more ambitious than that then he's looking for top 3 at worst, or winning the league at best.

Presumably he would want us to spend to achieve that, but the gap between what we can spend and what Celtic and Rangers can spend (before even considering Hearts and Aberdeen) is so vast as to be absurd to think we could bridge it.

So if he's *more* ambitious than the board, is he just setting himself up to fail? Would it have made a difference if Dempster had said we want to win the league (but he'll have to be good enough to do it on our budget)?

Is that being more ambitious?

The idea that a football club - and I mean pretty much any football club here, not just Hibs, wouldn't be ambitious is absurd.

If you asked the Chairman of St Johnstone if he wants to win the league of course he would say yes, but relative to their spend he would aim for top 6 and consider that ambitious. I'm sure the Hamilton owner would have ambitions to win the league but targetting staying in the league is more realistic to where they are.

What else, other than spend, would limit ambition? Hibs' set up is designed to get the team over-performing (better than the sum of its parts).

The structure that has had so much coverage recently means that we have things in place to do the best we can with recruitment, with analysis, with coaching, with conditioning, with diet and so on.

If you had no ambition, why bother?

The argument does not stand up to any scrutiny?

You can shout about not replacing John McGinn or McGeouch and say that wasn't ambitious, but the reality is that these players aren't readily replacable - if they were then guess what - the bigger teams would be hoovering up the alternatives.

That's not being unambitious. That's just the reality of being a club our size.

If someone could better explain what they mean when they say we aren't ambitious, I'd love to hear it - I genuinely don't understand what people are expecting when they talk about ambition now.

Totally agree Matty, and I really think Appleton is just trying to deflect from the fact that he wasn't offered the job.

Even the idea of Rangers - whose spending and potential income absolutely dwarfs ours - winning the SPL any time soon is pretty fanciful, which just shows you the level that Celtic are at. Two seasons ago they dropped a sum total of 8 points over a 38 game season, they have won every trophy available in Scotland for the last two seasons, and have a huge cash sum in the bank.

There's nothing wrong with our ambitions, they are both exciting and achievable. Aside from the league championship, the other two trophies were pretty well shared around in the years up until Rodgers arrived at Celtic, and they can't keep winning the treble every year.

[bigwheel]

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I can't get my head around the 'ambition' argument.

Leeann Dempster said that she wants us to be participating in European football regularly through league position (which I think is top 4) or via winning the Scottish Cup. This would, presumably, be the measure of success and a minimum requirement.

If Appleton is more ambitious than that then he's looking for top 3 at worst, or winning the league at best.

Presumably he would want us to spend to achieve that, but the gap between what we can spend and what Celtic and Rangers can spend (before even considering Hearts and Aberdeen) is so vast as to be absurd to think we could bridge it.

So if he's *more* ambitious than the board, is he just setting himself up to fail? Would it have made a difference if Dempster had said we want to win the league (but he'll have to be good enough to do it on our budget)?

Is that being more ambitious?

The idea that a football club - and I mean pretty much any football club here, not just Hibs, wouldn't be ambitious is absurd.

If you asked the Chairman of St Johnstone if he wants to win the league of course he would say yes, but relative to their spend he would aim for top 6 and consider that ambitious. I'm sure the Hamilton owner would have ambitions to win the league but targetting staying in the league is more realistic to where they are.

What else, other than spend, would limit ambition? Hibs' set up is designed to get the team over-performing (better than the sum of its parts).

The structure that has had so much coverage recently means that we have things in place to do the best we can with recruitment, with analysis, with coaching, with conditioning, with diet and so on.

If you had no ambition, why bother?

The argument does not stand up to any scrutiny?

You can shout about not replacing John McGinn or McGeouch and say that wasn't ambitious, but the reality is that these players aren't readily replacable - if they were then guess what - the bigger teams would be hoovering up the alternatives.

That's not being unambitious. That's just the reality of being a club our size.

If someone could better explain what they mean when they say we aren't ambitious, I'd love to hear it - I genuinely don't understand what people are expecting when they talk about ambition now.

good post - can't disagree with any of that..

I wonder if he came with a budget request that Hibs refused to match??

In that case - he wasn't right for us .

If we have more money coming in, we'd spend it - the club don't make much (any) profit , so we don't have an approach that is about being shy of spending what money we have.

[Captain Trips]

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Sounds like the excuses of someone who wasn't actually offered the job. I believe Leeann when she says no one else was offered the job except PH. And if true that he asked for 12 month's pay for severance then he didn't really back himself to be successful. His loss not being at our club

I do not understand this severance part is it actually true? If he signed a 3.5 yr deal and we sacked him after a year due to results then he would get a pay off based on the 2.5yrs remaining? It would only matter if he had 11mths or less to go.

It sounds a very strange to me.

[Keith_M]

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Challenge the OF, I use to think Hibs could, not anymore though we seem to be more content being a community club now a days.

No one outside the Old Firm have won the league for the last 33 years. They have average attendances of 48k and 58k, with hundreds of thousands of non-attending fans.

I think there may be a link between the two and realism had to kick in at some time.

I admire your optimism thinking we could ever compete with the ugly sisters, but the last time we won the league was 67 years ago and the last time we finished runners-up was 44 years ago.

[bigwheel]

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I do not understand this severance part is it actually true? If he signed a 3.5 yr deal and we sacked him after a year due to results then he would get a pay off based on the 2.5yrs remaining? It would only matter if he had 11mths or less to go.

It sounds a very strange to me.

It would depend on the exit conditions in the contract.