I'm sure there's been a good game on an astro at some point but I can't remember ever seeing one.This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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14-02-2019 04:53 PM #31
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14-02-2019 05:00 PM #32
What are Hamilton's, killie's and livvy's injuries like this season compared to the rest of the league?
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14-02-2019 05:04 PM #33This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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14-02-2019 05:20 PM #34
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If the players say that they want rid of them, then who are we to argue? I imagine they know best. Like others have said, if this affects the bottom line for some clubs, then they should cut their cloth accordingly.
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14-02-2019 06:15 PM #35
I asked my physio at the time (around 3 years ago) who worked with the women’s SFA team whether the surface caused injuries (remembering the controversy in American Football).
There was a meeting at Hampden to discuss the number of injuries and the future of artificial pitches. The SFA looked at the evidence (Against) but went for - part of it would be based
on costs / revenue oops for the smaller clubs."We know the people who have invested so far are simple fans." Vladimir Romanov - Scotsman 10th December 2012
"Romanov was like a breath of fresh air - laced with cyanide." Me.
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14-02-2019 06:31 PM #36
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I disagree. I genuinely feel that artificial pitches are the future.
They are already transforming youth football as the pitches are almost always playable. The bounce is more true and the flatness of them is better on ankles.
I don’t think the link to injury would stand up to proper scrutiny and if it did, then the next generation of pitches will be along soon.
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14-02-2019 06:44 PM #37This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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14-02-2019 07:16 PM #38
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Also don’t find the new generation of pitches to be brick hard at all. Having played on a few, I find them to be pretty spongy. Most kids prefer them to grass and I think we can all agree that the wee blighters certainly are the future.
I do think that Livingston have misread the instructions regarding the application of rubber pellets. Far too many on their pitch. Not necessary at all.Last edited by judas; 14-02-2019 at 07:18 PM.
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14-02-2019 07:18 PM #39This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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14-02-2019 07:42 PM #40This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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14-02-2019 08:34 PM #41
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Actually I think the only great argument against astro is an environmental one.
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14-02-2019 09:42 PM #42
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So if clubs with artificial pitches are saving/not spending as much as they would be if they had grass does that mean they can then spend more on players giving them an advantage over similar sized clubs that maintain a natural surface?
Space to let
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14-02-2019 09:52 PM #43This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
We live in a Northern climate, where frozen and waterlogged grounds are common. Undersoil heating systems are extortionate to run, and the financial model of most clubs in the top tier preclude their installation and maintenance. Livi lost out last year with a number of their games being postponed during an (albeit) especially hard winter, and their already perilous financial situation from low crowds was hammered by losing games to midweek slots.
Every single club in the top flight has access to train and play on these surfaces - there are zero excuses for these clubs to try and blame artificial pitches for their inadequacies, and the evidence simply doesn't support player claims that they enhance injuries. If anything, they encourage slick, passing football and reduce the impacts of abnormal ball mechanics due to different depths of moisture or frozen ground on 'real' surfaces.
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14-02-2019 10:12 PM #44
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To be honest, I didn't realise how expensive undersoil heating was until I googled it there. Initially I thought it wouldn't be much different from heating a house, but it actually it's not really comparable.
But regardless, I think the general feeling is that the only reason artificial pitches are used in Scotland are due to the poor state of the game financially. In that sense it makes the game look a bit amateurish. At the end of the day, grass is the superior surface when you have the ability to invest in it properly.
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14-02-2019 10:12 PM #45
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Perhaps more importantly, professionals regularly say that they feel more sore after games on these surfaces, and recovery takes longer....a very common set of themes when you hear pros talk about these pitches..makes me feel there is a difference being experienced on them
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14-02-2019 10:24 PM #46
Hamilton have survived in the premier league through an unfair advantage which is their crappy little pitch. Community use etc I just can't believe, do Killie really open their ground at night for a group of ten year olds to have a kick about? How much do they charge them? Does it cover the cost of the floodlights and staff?
Fitba is meant for grass - end off.
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15-02-2019 04:58 AM #47
If you’re a top flight football club that can’t afford grass, you shouldn’t be a football club
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15-02-2019 05:23 AM #48
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If there was any truth to artificial pitches being better for the game and athlete's, then we'd see them in the EPL, La Liga and Serie A. The EPL and as far as I'm aware, Championship have all grass pitches and have the same weather as us. Grass has been and always will be the best conditions to play on.
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15-02-2019 07:31 AM #49
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If we had the money in Scotland that all of the top nations have such as epl, championship, la liga etc then I'm sure we would all be able to afford fantastic grass pitches. If you look at some of the excuses for grass pitches we've had to play on over the past few years such as Pittodrie, Tannadice, tynecastle etc then it's no wonder some clubs have went down the artificial route. Celtic have a fantastic grass pitch because the have the money to install a hybrid pitch with all of the lighting equipment to help it grow throughout the year and a small army of groundstaff. Unfortunately most other clubs can't afford to do that. Imagine clubs saying to fans that we can't buy this or that new player because we're spending our money on extra groundstaff and fancy lighting rigs. I think it's just the players union reminding us they're still there 😁
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15-02-2019 07:54 AM #50
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15-02-2019 08:00 AM #51
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15-02-2019 09:48 AM #52
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Livingston fc don't own their pitch though. Would they get permission to rip it up?
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15-02-2019 10:26 AM #53
I don't feel the same as most on here as we have many in Sweden and the kids grow up on them- and they haven't held us back as a nation.
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15-02-2019 10:33 AM #54This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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15-02-2019 10:54 AM #55This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
So you could argue it’s an unfair advantage as they apply for funding and that helps provide a new pitch. There will be maintenance costs.
Using a stadium to help community I’m not against and 3G pitches are good to help during winter months. But what I agree is the standard of 3G and grass.
Grass pitches aren’t always perfect and Easter Road last week against Raith was bumpy. Think back to Hearts last season and Motherwell when they both had awful pitches.
The key is the quality of surface and England are more strict hence you rarely see a bad pitch on TV as it affects the product.
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15-02-2019 11:09 AM #56
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If a club can’t afford to maintain a grass pitch they should adjust their playing budget accordingly until they can afford it. If that means clubs like Hamilton and Livi become uncompetitive then it just puts them on a level playing field with other clubs in their position.
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15-02-2019 11:57 AM #57
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I grew up playing competitively exclusively on grass but in my 20s and 30s have increasingly alternated between matches on grass and 4G - in my experience the artificial surfaces are far less forgiving on your body. Whether that's causing injuries (and my gut is that it contributes) or just general stiffness and soreness, there is absolutely a difference in the way your body reacts when playing on 3G/4G and you feel that in the following days after playing.
Having said that, I love playing on them. I personally find the surface conducive to good football, whereas matches on grass in this country so often descend into muddy battles played in the air. This will of course be less of an issue at the top level, where the grass pitches are in great nick. But in terms of future technical development, I certainly think kids will learn a lot more training on 4G than on a typical winter grass pitch. It may also be that younger guys who have grown up on these pitches are also physically better adapted to doing so, and my comments above will no longer apply in future.
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15-02-2019 12:06 PM #58This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
My problem with it is i have not seen one good game where i have enjoyed it, either live or on tv and that is why i dont like it.
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15-02-2019 12:33 PM #59
I like to take a pragmatic rather than a prescriptive approach.
It's a bit like when the league made all clubs in the top league have 10.000 seats.
That was plain daft and the pitch argument is similar.
However, IMO a synthetic pitch with not many fans at the game makes our top league look Micky Mouse on the telly.
I see Kilmarnock as a team who will spend the vast majority of time in the top league.
Accordingly they should have a grass pitch.
Hamilton and Livingston are small operations which will spend the majority of their time in the 2nd tier and i would therefore allow them to have a synthetic pitch.
Common sense and a degree of pragmatism has to be applied.
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15-02-2019 01:10 PM #60This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
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