Michael Stewart - "This has been coming"

[Onion]

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Thought so...which is Why I find all the critique of yesterday's statement a bit bizarre as clearly the club need to be very careful about what they say in the media/ public domain

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Which, unfortunately, leaves NL free to put his own spin on the events through his media pals and Hibs unable to respond in any meaningful way.

Hope this doesn't get ugly as NL has been good for Hibs and has had a decent relationship with Hibs fans.

[Shrekko]

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Even if they're not, it's hardly the key point of the post is it?

It was the whole of the first paragraph and yes it was very much part of the ‘why do people think it’s ok?’ jist of the post.

If theres no evidence they’re not then why post that’s the case?

You’re taking offence because of who’s post i quoted I assume?

[Captain Trips]

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There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

I agree with this. I am really pissed off with NL and hope he just goes. Close to end of a transfer window when we are trying to make some important changes, sorry but NL can do one.

[proud_and_green]

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There's a school of thought on here, that I agree with, that booing, abusing players and being negative as fans at a game is not conductive to improving the players performance on the park. It does seem odd that many of the same people seem to have had no problem with NL very publicly doing exactly the same thing.

The constant berating of the players, singling people out and essentially abdicating all responsibility hasn't sat well with me. It's perfectly possible to be both a winner and a gracious loser. If the relationship between players and manager has broken down beyond repair I can't say I'm suprised; I wonder how many people in other professions would accept being told they are **** at their job in public every week.

Footballs changed. The stick without the carrot doesn't work anymore and IF the players have felt compelled to go to a senior manager to resolve the issue it suggests it goes beyond the usual heated exchanges that can happen from time to time.

Have a quadruple like for that excellent post!

[Pretty Boy]

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It was the whole of the first paragraph and yes it was very much part of the ‘why do people think it’s ok?’ jist of the post.

If theres no evidence they’re not then why post that’s the case?

You’re taking offence because of who’s post i quoted I assume?

I've never been a fan of calling people out on a thread that they have either not seen or chosen not to contribute to so I'm not starting now.

In answer to your original question; yes there are a handful of posters I recall taking issue with fans criticising players at games and online who have, over the last few weeks and months, been broadly supportive of Neil Lennons 'home truths'. I'm sure there are many who are fine with both or disapproving of both as well.

I still think the general point stands. The odd ear bashing or stern word works now and again. When it becomes the dominant 'motivation' it is doomed to fail. I find individuals being singled out and, for lack of a better phrase, picked on distasteful in everyday life and I don't make an exception for football even allowing for the pressure and heated environment within the game.

[Leith's finest]

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The only reason Efe signed for us was Lennon. I doubt he'll be back now.

This 100%

[Smartie]

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I've never been a fan of calling people out on a thread that they have either not seen or chosen not to contribute to so I'm not starting now.

In answer to your original question; yes there are a handful of posters I recall taking issue with fans criticising players at games and online who have, over the last few weeks and months, been broadly supportive of Neil Lennons 'home truths'. I'm sure there are many who are fine with both or disapproving of both as well.

I still think the general point stands. The odd ear bashing or stern word works now and again. When it becomes the dominant 'motivation' it is doomed to fail. I find individuals being singled out and, for lack of a better phrase, picked on distasteful in everyday life and I don't make an exception for football even allowing for the pressure and heated environment within the game.

I'd love to know what happened in the dressing room at half-time today.

I reckon 100 out of 100 Hibs fans would have given them bollocking.

It makes me wonder about this man management stuff and how important the likes of halftime team talks actually are.

Our improvement came from a tactical tweak more than anything, and several of our players found something in themselves that hadn't been there earlier in the game.

[The 90+2]

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I'd love to know what happened in the dressing room at half-time today.

I reckon 100 out of 100 Hibs fans would have given them bollocking.

It makes me wonder about this man management stuff and how important the likes of halftime team talks actually are.

Our improvement came from a tactical tweak more than anything, and several of our players found something in themselves that hadn't been there earlier in the game.

Probably told them to go out and play their game and the result will take care of themselves and concentrate on the positives .

[Hibbyradge]

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I'd love to know what happened in the dressing room at half-time today.

I reckon 100 out of 100 Hibs fans would have given them bollocking.

It makes me wonder about this man management stuff and how important the likes of halftime team talks actually are.

Our improvement came from a tactical tweak more than anything, and several of our players found something in themselves that hadn't been there earlier in the game.

The cliché about a rocket up the erchie at half time has never rung true for me.

Players try as hard as they can to do well and if anyone is not quite firing on all cylinders, it's the exception so bollocking the entire team seems pointless.

If a player isn't doing what he's been asked to do, not making the correct runs it whatever, then certainly they should be spoken to, but what's the good in giving a player grief if they're doing their job?

That would demotivate me for sure.

[Liam978]

[QUOTE=Captain Trips;5683656]I agree with this. I am really pissed off with NL and hope he just goes. Close to end of a transfer window when we are trying to make some important changes, sorry but NL can do o
Please God he keeps the door open for you.

[Itsnoteasy]

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The cliché about a rocket up the erchie at half time has never rung true for me.

Players try as hard as they can to do well and if anyone is not quite firing on all cylinders, it's the exception so bollocking the entire team seems pointless.

If a player isn't doing what he's been asked to do, not making the correct runs it whatever, then certainly they should be spoken to, but what's the good in giving a player grief if they're doing their job?

That would demotivate me for sure.

You win as a team you lose as a team. It's not an individual sport they are playing.

[Hibbyradge]

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You win as a team you lose as a team. It's not an individual sport they are playing.

Are you suggesting that players who are doing well should be shouted at just because someone else isn't?

[matty_f]

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It was the whole of the first paragraph and yes it was very much part of the ‘why do people think it’s ok?’ jist of the post.

If theres no evidence they’re not then why post that’s the case?

You’re taking offence because of who’s post i quoted I assume?

No, I just thought it seemed like needless nit-picking.

I thought the point of the post was about management methods changing from the says when it was ok to bawl at people.

Pretty Boy is more than capable of sticking up for himself, he doesn't need my help.

[hibeerealist]

[QUOTE=Liam978;5683862]

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I agree with this. I am really pissed off with NL and hope he just goes. Close to end of a transfer window when we are trying to make some important changes, sorry but NL can do o
Please God he keeps the door open for you.

Et tu, Brute!

What IF NL has put himself out on a limb to get Kamberi (and at considerable cost to HFC), is not happy with players attitude/work rate/performances and has tried the arm around the shoulder peck on the cheek then tries something else ...... then runs out of ways to get this guy to do what he was bought for?

I am sorry, I may be in a minority but NL is getting hung out to dry here and with little chance of the truth ever emerging. What have HFC not done that NL has requested in terms of securing players?

IF they have pushed the boat out and committed “every penny to the manager” as promised numerous times then there is little more they can do but does anyone on here actually believe they have and has the manager got grounds for feeling frustrated???

I am leaning towards frustration from the scenario above doubled up by the Kamberi situation resulting in him blowing his top. Whilst that might not be the way everyone would deal with it, or is not fair to the snowflakes of today then have some empathy with NL on this. Some of the comments about him have been painful to read.

In his defence I would say he “blew up” because he cares, he “blew up” because a player who is being very well paid by HFC is not giving value and he “blew up” because this all leads to him (and his support team) losing their jobs and the Hibs fans looking at him as a failure!!

He is suffering from many stab wounds today but I will not draw my knife!!!!

Lets all be careful of what we wish for and March is coming soon.......

[Captain Trips]

[QUOTE=hibeerealist;5683970]

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Et tu, Brute!

What IF NL has put himself out on a limb to get Kamberi (and at considerable cost to HFC), is not happy with players attitude/work rate/performances and has tried the arm around the shoulder peck on the cheek then tries something else ...... then runs out of ways to get this guy to do what he was bought for?

I am sorry, I may be in a minority but NL is getting hung out to dry here and with little chance of the truth ever emerging. What have HFC not done that NL has requested in terms of securing players?

IF they have pushed the boat out and committed “every penny to the manager” as promised numerous times then there is little more they can do but does anyone on here actually believe they have and has the manager got grounds for feeling frustrated???

I am leaning towards frustration from the scenario above doubled up by the Kamberi situation resulting in him blowing his top. Whilst that might not be the way everyone would deal with it, or is not fair to the snowflakes of today then have some empathy with NL on this. Some of the comments about him have been painful to read.

In his defence I would say he “blew up” because he cares, he “blew up” because a player who is being very well paid by HFC is not giving value and he “blew up” because this all leads to him (and his support team) losing their jobs and the Hibs fans looking at him as a failure!!

He is suffering from many stab wounds today but I will not draw my knife!!!!

Lets all be careful of what we wish for and March is coming soon.......

I do not care what he was "promised" I am not happy with the league position and not happy he is suspended by somebody who has never been anything but level headed.

It's all as whole not good enough. I will hang him out to dry as much he has with certain players that fair enough?

[Hibbyradge]

[QUOTE=hibeerealist;5683970]

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Et tu, Brute!

What IF NL has put himself out on a limb to get Kamberi (and at considerable cost to HFC), is not happy with players attitude/work rate/performances and has tried the arm around the shoulder peck on the cheek then tries something else ...... then runs out of ways to get this guy to do what he was bought for?

I am sorry, I may be in a minority but NL is getting hung out to dry here and with little chance of the truth ever emerging. What have HFC not done that NL has requested in terms of securing players?

IF they have pushed the boat out and committed “every penny to the manager” as promised numerous times then there is little more they can do but does anyone on here actually believe they have and has the manager got grounds for feeling frustrated???

I am leaning towards frustration from the scenario above doubled up by the Kamberi situation resulting in him blowing his top. Whilst that might not be the way everyone would deal with it, or is not fair to the snowflakes of today then have some empathy with NL on this. Some of the comments about him have been painful to read.

In his defence I would say he “blew up” because he cares, he “blew up” because a player who is being very well paid by HFC is not giving value and he “blew up” because this all leads to him (and his support team) losing their jobs and the Hibs fans looking at him as a failure!!

He is suffering from many stab wounds today but I will not draw my knife!!!!

Lets all be careful of what we wish for and March is coming soon.......

He was given every penny available. He even said that more money was there last year, but he didn't use it.

If he's run out of ideas as how to motivate players, then that's his failing. Compensating for that inadequacy by shouting and bullying is counter productive and really not acceptable.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

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Football employment, I guess it’s a two way street. Players get guaranteed, multi year contracts that seem largely watertight, if a player turns out to not be very good, tough, they still get their money. The flip side seems to be that they can be fined / docked wages if they don’t fulfill the obligations set out in their contract.

All they can be outright sacked on the spot for seems to be gross misconduct; violence, illegal behaviour and what not. They can be ‘sacked’ for other reasons, but that’d involve paying off the contract.

Managers seem to be closer to regular employees, they can be dismissed if they aren’t good enough, but they still seem to have fixed length contracts, so again, it’s a pay off. Or the gross misconduct again.

In general, it seems they’ve traded some employment rights for those guaranteed contracts and pay offs. Kind of like how contractors can have their contracts ended for no reason, no holiday or sick pay, all traded away for more money.

The same laws apply to football as any other employment, players and managers sign fixed term contracts, and 'not being good enough', 'poor results' etc are not a gross misconduct, so they almost never get sacked (Lennon will possibly be the exception). Unfortunately people talk about managers being 'sacked', which is a completely inaccurate description of what has happened.

Regarding the fining of players, again its not exceptional, it's not a fine, but a witholding of pay, which you've agreed to in contract of employment. This happens to 'regular' employees as well, e.g. suspension without pay as a discplinary measure is not unusual.

[Captain Trips]

[QUOTE=Hibbyradge;5683992]

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He was given every penny available. He even said that more money was there last year, but he didn't use it.

If he's run out of ideas as how to motivate players, then that's his failing. Compensating for that inadequacy by shouting and bullying is counter productive and really not acceptable.

Indeed and for me he is not bring hung out to dry he has been suspended by somebody whom I have a lot of respect for in their role and who has been nothing but professional to this point which says a lot for me on how this all played out.

[Shrekko]

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No, I just thought it seemed like needless nit-picking.

I thought the point of the post was about management methods changing from the says when it was ok to bawl at people.

Pretty Boy is more than capable of sticking up for himself, he doesn't need my help.

Disagree it’s nit picking. Quite often you get people generalising in that way... when there’s no evidence of specific individuals actually contradicting themselves in the way claimed.

He made the point I responded to and then made further general comments about whether or not it’s ok for people to be abused etc.

I don’t think every reply to a post always covers absolutely everything that’s been said in the one quoted.

[Tyler Durden]

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After the Livi game, I thought Lennon did well summing up the frustrations most of us felt with Kamberi

"I don't know if it's a confidence thing or a lack of application but he's nowhere near as hungry as he was last season.

"This is a criticism but we've been sitting on this for weeks but we're getting no response from him. We maybe need to look at other avenues to get goals. That's up to him. We've been talking to him in private for a long time.

"It's his all-round work rate which isn't there. If you aren't doing that then we are a man down and that's not acceptable any more."

I don't think this was a good statement at all.

They (Lennon and Parker) hadn't "been sitting on this for weeks". Parker had already slated Kamberi publicly a few weeks prior. Criticism that Kamberi had responded professionally to.

The Livvy game saw Kamberi dropped to the bench after 2 wins and a draw when he'd started. After a solid performance vs Rangers. Made no sense

Also the part about "don't know if it's confidence or application". That was Lennons job to know!