AberDNA member scheme

[Michael]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I might be wrong on this, as I'm not an accountant, but because of fairly recent legislation on the purchasing of shares, I don't think it's that simple.

IIRC, you have to show that you've had legal advice before the purchase can go ahead.






EDIT: If I'm wrong, as I often am, it's actually a great idea

HSL isn't share purchase. It's donation to HSL to buy shares.

[JimBHibees]

With season ticket renewals coming up int eh next couple of months would there be any possibility of an option to start up HSL donations on the same payment page as the season tickets? Something which could be added similar to gift aid type donations you sometimes get.

[Diclonius]

Don't know whether it's lack of sustained success over the years, no trust in the leadership of the club or a more apathetic supporter base in general, but our fans simply do not back the club to the level of Aberdeen and Hearts and the club make comparatively poorer efforts to get them to invest.

It takes a minor miracle (ala the Scottish Cup) to bring our attendances in line with the other two, and they plummet after one bad season. We also don't invest the same amount in supporter schemes as they do, and for whatever reason we have similarly failed to get large donations from wealthy supporters. I'm of the mind that we're conditioned to expect things to go south fairly quickly after a relatively successful season, and for that reason we're hesitant to back the club beyond our ST (if even that).

Unfortunately I think we'll have to have an exceptional, sustained period of success against the tide of superior finances from our rivals to remove this apathy from the support, and I'm not talking a cup win, one good season in the top flight and a wee run against the Hertz. 4-5 seasons minimum of top 6 and challenging for Europe (qualifying in at least 3), another cup win and lasting periods of dominance against Hearts/Aberdeen INCLUDING wins more than once in a blue moon at ****in' Tynecastle and ****in' Pittodrie. They've done it to us, so we can do it to them. Success breeds confidence.

[CMac1988]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

But with respect CMac, while you for one would join it, we need something that thousands will join independently of their ST spend. Folk commit verbally all the time but don't put their money where their mouth is when it matters.

Are you representative of what others would buy?

I'd suggest that we don't know the answer to that one.

Of course and that's fair. It poses the question though if HSL is slowly but surely exchanging cash for shares then it's serving its purpose, what more do we want from HSL? If it's more money for the playing budget then there needs to be more incentive than some shares in commercial entity that's ultimately not run by the club. It seems, again speculation time, that people aren't interested in shares or at least there's no real urgent need for fan ownership. HSL is a tough sell and it doesn't exactly have great image due to what can only be described as a smear campaign early doors coupled with poor communication. The club itself is somewhat to blame as it doesn't appear to be that concerned in selling HSL beyond a token mention here and there.

We continue to compare it to schemes from other clubs but the circumstances and main goal surrounding each vary. It seems we're all looking for something different from HSL or at least are looking as to how much money it provides to the club. This was a secondary aim behind the main goal of fan ownership and the only way it will ever come close to competing with other schemes is with a rethink and rebrand. So again the question is that we want that?

I'd like to add that I hope I don't disrespect anyone in anyway who's responsible in the running of HSL. Thankless task. :)

[Dalianwanda]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Erm the post above mine that I was responding to said exactly that!

Why you confused?

Im really not...I read the post

No harm

[SingaporeHibs]

I’m not entirely sure the general support buy into the purpose of HSL. I know about FoH and I’m relaxed and understand their panic to join in numbers. I’ve no idea of the objective of AberDNA, is it about raising extra funds or are they trying to buy the club?
I obviously understand HSL but don’t believe in the purpose of it. I don’t think i’m alone.
I would be far more inclined to pay something if it was solely just a donation. The likelyhood of donating might increase if I could pick up some freebie (as per AberDNA chat above) as part of the scheme.
HSL- giving ‘supporters’ power on the board. This is where I get totally lost. Who is to say I agree with the HSL’s board opinion on Hibs short term decisions any more or any less than I agree with the current board? Why would I want to fund someone unknown to me into a position of power?
Do I have any more access or power over HSL’s board of choices than i do over the current board. No chance. Anyone able to prove me wrong here please do so.
We’ve had the experience of fans on the board now for a few years and it doesn’t really work anymore than if Hibs has sent a couple of the other members onto chat rooms or BTG pre-match for a chat. I’ve nothing against Tracey/Frank, I first met Frank 25 years ago and he does a great job as a Hibs fan but does having either of them on the board make any real difference for my voice?

Why would I give my money to effectively fund a group made up of celebrities, Politicians etc etc, my point is I don’t know them or their capabilities to run the club well. Why would I possibly believe they are any more capable than the current board?

Recently there was a thread about a finding a rich investor and the benefits it could bring. Unlikely with a fan ownership scheme. Calls about Petrie/Farmers lack of investment. Where do people think extra funds will come from when we own the club? What happens when a major cost comes along?

[Juniper Greens]

Perhaps a certain retired tennis star might want to take over. I would be all for that

[hibbymac]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

hIBBYMAC YOU AND i BOTH KNOW WHO WE ARE TALKING ABOUT. THOSE WHO CALL IT A PONZI SCHEME WHICH IT IS NOT

If I knew who YOU were talking about, I wouldn't have ****** asked

[hibbydad]

All I will say to you Singapore Hibs is don't complain when there is a lack of funds to make new signings HSL is as much about creating working capital as share ownership and every business needs working capital

[Lix]

what success have Hertz and Dons had over us in last few years?.... I cant see much difference if you ask me. Aberdeen have proved with their big spending that its produced nowt apart from a 2nd place or three.

maybe we just accept where we are as a club and spend what we have....unless a very rich sugar daddy/mummy comes along of course.

only thing I want to improve on is targeting young players from lower league clubs and buying them quick as possible.

peace

Mr Lix

[Lix]

also, the easiest way to increase funds is by increasing the ST cost. I'd put cost up to £450 for an adult.

peace

Mr Lix

[hibbydad]

People will moan about that as well Lix

[Mibbes Aye]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

what success have Hertz and Dons had over us in last few years?.... I cant see much difference if you ask me. Aberdeen have proved with their big spending that its produced nowt apart from a 2nd place or three.

maybe we just accept where we are as a club and spend what we have....unless a very rich sugar daddy/mummy comes along of course.

only thing I want to improve on is targeting young players from lower league clubs and buying them quick as possible.

peace

Mr Lix

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

also, the easiest way to increase funds is by increasing the ST cost. I'd put cost up to £450 for an adult.

peace

Mr Lix

Hard to argue with either of those posts.

I like the fact we spend within our means and are honest.

A sugar daddy should only be relied upon to provide capital and one-off costs as a general rule.

I pay for four STs. I wouldn't notice a small increase in pricing and I suspect that's true of a lot of ST holders. We pay a whack but we know why, and what we get for it.

[southern hibby]

I’ve spoke to fans who sit next to us in the East and asked if they pay into HSL. A few have/do and most don’t and each one has their reasons but there seems to be an issue by some that the money will be used for infa structure rather than the playing side of things. Also a few won’t pay into it as long as RP has anything to do with Hibs.

I have mentioned that all money raised goes to the playing side of things to get the answers thrown back at me.

If we raise £500,000 through HSL towards wages then that means £500,000 raised through season tickets can be used to pay for indoor plastic pitches that we probably don’t need. Also had it pays towards the ticket office every year and a few other things thrown in too.

Now as I said I pay into it but maybe it would be worth HSL / Hibs addressing concerns folk have about what their money is being spent on and maybe more would join if these concerns are addressed.

GGTTH

[Lix]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Hard to argue with either of those posts.

I like the fact we spend within our means and are honest.

A sugar daddy should only be relied upon to provide capital and one-off costs as a general rule.

I pay for four STs. I wouldn't notice a small increase in pricing and I suspect that's true of a lot of ST holders. We pay a whack but we know why, and what we get for it.

thanks.

I also like the fact that we live within our means, it makes us honest.

do we pay a whack though? Without trolling hearts website for ST prices, the only difference i can see is that they price differently from us.... ie.. more central a seat position the more it costs.
I would hazard a guess and say they raise same as us if not more than us via ST cost.

we as a club as a whole aren't doing much wrong imo.

peace

Mr Lix

[Lix]

ps, wife and I are both HSL contributers. We like the model. It is certainly not a ponzi scheme!!

[Golden Bear]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

This here plays a big part in it. I genuinely think most aren't interested in being part of a separate entity with controlling shares in the club. These same people may be willing to contribute just as much towards the club but for something else in return. Incentives such as a free home top, various discounts and other benefits such as a Hibs TV subscription etc. would certainly be enticing for me. If Hibs offered a subscription/membership scheme in the same vein as AberDNA I'd for one would join it.

I'm exactly the same C.

Divorce the issue of fan ownership under HSL and adopt a scheme similar to AberDNA, I'm sure this will be an attraction to many and will increase the revenue to our football Club.

[Mibbes Aye]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

thanks.

I also like the fact that we live within our means, it makes us honest.

do we pay a whack though? Without trolling hearts website for ST prices, the only difference i can see is that they price differently from us.... ie.. more central a seat position the more it costs.
I would hazard a guess and say they raise same as us if not more than us via ST cost.

we as a club as a whole aren't doing much wrong imo.

peace

Mr Lix

When I say we pay a whack I'm not suggesting the club are exploiting us. I think it is a decent outlay for STs but as I said, I would probably be happy to pay a bit more. The suggestion of it wouldn't put me off renewing.

Complete agreement, as a club we aren't doing much wrong.

[hibbydad]

Southern Hibby I agree with you but no matter what the club or HSL say they will continue to come up with these lame excuses sometimes I really wonder how much some people want a successful team

[matty_f]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’m not entirely sure the general support buy into the purpose of HSL. I know about FoH and I’m relaxed and understand their panic to join in numbers. I’ve no idea of the objective of AberDNA, is it about raising extra funds or are they trying to buy the club?
I obviously understand HSL but don’t believe in the purpose of it. I don’t think i’m alone.
I would be far more inclined to pay something if it was solely just a donation. The likelyhood of donating might increase if I could pick up some freebie (as per AberDNA chat above) as part of the scheme.
HSL- giving ‘supporters’ power on the board. This is where I get totally lost. Who is to say I agree with the HSL’s board opinion on Hibs short term decisions any more or any less than I agree with the current board? Why would I want to fund someone unknown to me into a position of power?
Do I have any more access or power over HSL’s board of choices than i do over the current board. No chance. Anyone able to prove me wrong here please do so.
We’ve had the experience of fans on the board now for a few years and it doesn’t really work anymore than if Hibs has sent a couple of the other members onto chat rooms or BTG pre-match for a chat. I’ve nothing against Tracey/Frank, I first met Frank 25 years ago and he does a great job as a Hibs fan but does having either of them on the board make any real difference for my voice?

Why would I give my money to effectively fund a group made up of celebrities, Politicians etc etc, my point is I don’t know them or their capabilities to run the club well. Why would I possibly believe they are any more capable than the current board?

Recently there was a thread about a finding a rich investor and the benefits it could bring. Unlikely with a fan ownership scheme. Calls about Petrie/Farmers lack of investment. Where do people think extra funds will come from when we own the club? What happens when a major cost comes along?

HSL is a membership, once you've paid enough you are a member and you have a vote like all the other members, that vote means you can oppose a certain person from being on the board - you might not get your way but you'll have the same voice as every other member, regardless of how much they've put in.

The club is run on a self-sustaining basis, so if a cost came in then the money would need to be found from income, it wouldn't fall on the support or HSL to find the money in the same way that STF doesn't do his hand in his pocket when the pitch needs re-laid or a stand built.

[Speedway]

Some very fair and valid points now being aired.

I suspect that those noticing the club’s rising cash balance will also question the necessity of their £20 a month.

I think most of us look to argue the toss rather than just ‘going with it’

We’ve been burnt before, I get it, but who hasn’t.

And yes, I contribute multiple DDs to HSL despite my views on our chairman.

[superfurryhibby]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

£700k is certainly not the net figure. AberDNA is a membership scheme which offers a large range of discounts and offers - the true net value to the club will depend on the take up of these.

Their marketing is good though, whereas HSL often feels like something separate to the club. As LD pushed for this scheme I think she needs to do some work to make it feel like a core effort.

So, 47 posts further on from this, does anyone actually know the net worth of AberDNA to their club?

When considering money raised by your ordinary fan, does our 3000 extra season ticket sales count when talking about doing your bit for the club?

I also see that the sheep cheapest season tickets are c £35.00 than ours, although not sure how many of these are actually sold, but multiply that by a few thousand and it’s a fair bit.

Finally, it’s worth noting this, maybe our wealthy business fans need to step up to the platter a bit more!

https://www.afc.co.uk/2018/09/11/afc...ew-investment/

[LeithMike]

Things that might help contributions to HSL?

1. Annual membership rather than life membership. Possibly missed the boat but making it an annual contribution/subscription to remain a member may help sustain contributions over the long-term.

2. Looking at inducements/benefits that AberDNA offers and running something similar? A subscription/contribution where there are some tangible benefits rather than simply a donation may encourage more contributors
It's clearly working up north. If HSL could get 6,000 or so annual paying members then it would give it a very healthy negotiating position with the club regarding benefits.

3. Change of name. The use of limited makes HSL a bit abstract for me. Association, Alliance or the like may be a better indication of identity and more attractive to supporters.

4. Joining with the club so that payment of a season ticket in instalments would include an option to pay monthly HSL membership fee and donations to other initiatives - kicks for kids, youth development, other charitable purposes, etc.

5. Getting that seat on the board. With the high level of criticism of the supporters reps, it would be good to get a representative of HSL on the board and see if it can take up the mantle of supporter representation*.

* difficult to see how this is done when you see a lot of infighting on these boards.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[brog]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I’m not entirely sure the general support buy into the purpose of HSL. I know about FoH and I’m relaxed and understand their panic to join in numbers. I’ve no idea of the objective of AberDNA, is it about raising extra funds or are they trying to buy the club?
I obviously understand HSL but don’t believe in the purpose of it. I don’t think i’m alone.
I would be far more inclined to pay something if it was solely just a donation. The likelyhood of donating might increase if I could pick up some freebie (as per AberDNA chat above) as part of the scheme.
HSL- giving ‘supporters’ power on the board. This is where I get totally lost. Who is to say I agree with the HSL’s board opinion on Hibs short term decisions any more or any less than I agree with the current board? Why would I want to fund someone unknown to me into a position of power?
Do I have any more access or power over HSL’s board of choices than i do over the current board. No chance. Anyone able to prove me wrong here please do so.
We’ve had the experience of fans on the board now for a few years and it doesn’t really work anymore than if Hibs has sent a couple of the other members onto chat rooms or BTG pre-match for a chat. I’ve nothing against Tracey/Frank, I first met Frank 25 years ago and he does a great job as a Hibs fan but does having either of them on the board make any real difference for my voice?

Why would I give my money to effectively fund a group made up of celebrities, Politicians etc etc, my point is I don’t know them or their capabilities to run the club well. Why would I possibly believe they are any more capable than the current board?

Recently there was a thread about a finding a rich investor and the benefits it could bring. Unlikely with a fan ownership scheme. Calls about Petrie/Farmers lack of investment. Where do people think extra funds will come from when we own the club? What happens when a major cost comes along?

I've had conversations with several folk who hold similar views to yourself & I must confess I find those views baffling & frustrating. You say you don't believe in the purpose of HSL , fine that's your prerogative. I have no overwhelming desire for fan ownership but I donate to HSL to help our club. You continually assert that nothing will change & that no one can prove you wrong. By that logic similarly no one can say HSL will have a negative effect on our club. You also state you would be more inclined to just make a donation. Why not do that then? Set up a DD to pay Hibs directly, I'm sure they'll be delighted to accept your money.

[banchoryhibs]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Things that might help contributions to HSL?

1. Annual membership rather than life membership. Possibly missed the boat but making it an annual contribution/subscription to remain a member may help sustain contributions over the long-term.

2. Looking at inducements/benefits that AberDNA offers and running something similar? A subscription/contribution where there are some tangible benefits rather than simply a donation may encourage more contributors
It's clearly working up north. If HSL could get 6,000 or so annual paying members then it would give it a very healthy negotiating position with the club regarding benefits.

3. Change of name. The use of limited makes HSL a bit abstract for me. Association, Alliance or the like may be a better indication of identity and more attractive to supporters.

4. Joining with the club so that payment of a season ticket in instalments would include an option to pay monthly HSL membership fee and donations to other initiatives - kicks for kids, youth development, other charitable purposes, etc.

5. Getting that seat on the board. With the high level of criticism of the supporters reps, it would be good to get a representative of HSL on the board and see if it can take up the mantle of supporter representation*.

* difficult to see how this is done when you see a lot of infighting on these boards.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

What a positive post! The HSL directors are looking at ways to increase membership and donations - some of your ideas may indeed work.

The HSL Q&A page says that by donating to HSL, "Subject to meeting Member eligibility criteria, you will acquire legal ownership status in HSL which has legal ownership of shares in HFC. You will receive a Membership Certificate to demonstrate proof of ownership." This means that once you've donated the required amount you are a member and this can't be taken away from you so it's not possible to run an annual membership scheme - I guess that some other scheme could be introduced to make this possible?

Once HSL acquires 20% of Hibs shares - it currently has 17.5% - it is legally entitled to place a director on the club board. This is in addition to the 2 Fans Rep directors. It's not far to go now!

My view is that we need to raise a very positive HSL profile amongst the fans to try to increase the number currently subscribing. This thread certainly helps and if there are ways of making the donations even more attractive that's got to be good.

[RoYO!]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

But with respect CMac, while you for one would join it, we need something that thousands will join independently of their ST spend. Folk commit verbally all the time but don't put their money where their mouth is when it matters.

Are you representative of what others would buy?

I'd suggest that we don't know the answer to that one.

Yep, I’m with CMac on this one.

[pacoluna]

How much of that total sum along with hearts has been raised through rich "anonymous" benefactors.

[NAE NOOKIE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Has Nae Nookie ever written a short post?

Part of the reason HSL doesn't get the attention it should is probably because of the group of hibs fans who called (and still call) it a Ponzi scheme.

Whether it's true or not I don't know, but it definitely has had an effect. A lot of folk will have cancelled when the loyalty points system was canned as well.

No

[NAE NOOKIE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

No

Yes

[1875STEVE]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

At some point we're just going to have to accept that Hibs fans aren't as willing or able to contribute towards a scheme like this over and above the normal costs of supporting the team. I don't believe that there can be a majority of our support that are unaware of HSL at this stage.

Whether that is down to us not being in crisis like Hearts were when FOH was launched or our fanbase isn't as extensive or as well off as those in the north-east that support Aberdeen or that neither of those clubs have a noisy portion of their own supporters railing against them and calling them rip-offs and Ponzi schemes to anyone that will listen there is only so much marketing that can help with that.

I had the very argument with the very person who claims it's a ponzi scheme on twitter the other day.

It was like talking to a brick wall, twisting my words.

Claiming Farmer is a billionaire etc, it's scary folk believe him.

He has an agenda against sir tom and im not sure why.