Messi

[Radium]

4231 is not the least popular formation these days.

Maradonna playing the No 10.
Messi/ Ronaldo either side
Pele up top

Cruyff, Smith, Matthews, Muller on the bench.


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[hibsbollah]

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I agree to an extent with your last sentence. I do however think that if football is at the very least not any worse than it used to be then a guy with such significantly better numbers in near enough every possible metric in Neymar should surely be seen as at least comparable to George Best? Both played similar positions, both at the top level majority of their careers.. if the stats were a bit closer then I’d be more inclined to allow them to hold less weight but they’re hugely in favour of Neymar.

Pele scored 1500 goals in his career, Messi and Ronaldo combined don't get near that, and are unlikely to before they retire. I don't think Pele is better than those two, I just think the bare stats don't tell the whole story.

I'd rather judge players in the same era.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Pele scored 1500 goals in his career, Messi and Ronaldo combined don't get near that, and are unlikely to before they retire. I don't think Pele is better than those two, I just think the bare stats don't tell the whole story.

I'd rather judge players in the same era.

If you include training Pele scored 1500 maybe. You know that's 75 goals a season for 20 years? Pele didn't scored anything like 1500 goals. Most put him at 1200 but I find that pretty hard to believe, he must've been playing against some absolute ***** in Brazil.

[My_Wife_Camille]

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If you include training Pele scored 1500 maybe. You know that's 75 goals a season for 20 years? Pele didn't scored anything like 1500 goals. Most put him at 1200 but I find that pretty hard to believe, he must've been playing against some absolute ***** in Brazil.

A huge chunk of Peles goals are those in friendly matches andchaeiry games etc. I’m sure Messi and Ronaldo would be closer if you included all theirs too

[BILLYHIBS]

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Pele scored 1500 goals in his career, Messi and Ronaldo combined don't get near that, and are unlikely to before they retire. I don't think Pele is better than those two, I just think the bare stats don't tell the whole story.

I'd rather judge players in the same era.

If Pele played nowadays he would be better than these two imho he was anyway and always will be

As you rightly point out it is difficult to compare players from different eras but if you asked me who was the best player between Neymar and George Best I would say George Best all day long but the stats probably do not add up it is just my opinion

The same with Pele

To give you an analogy my youngest over the New Year asked me and my wife if David Bowie was better than Oasis?

[calumhibee1]

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Pele scored 1500 goals in his career, Messi and Ronaldo combined don't get near that, and are unlikely to before they retire. I don't think Pele is better than those two, I just think the bare stats don't tell the whole story.

I'd rather judge players in the same era.

1033 goals.. with nearly 400 of them in friendlys and the competitive ones not being at the top level. Strip out the goals from friendlies and Messi and Ronaldo have both scored not far off as many competitive goals, with theirs being at the top level and careers that are still ongoing.

Anyway, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree

[SquashedFrogg]

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If Pele played nowadays he would be better than these two imho he was anyway and always will be

As you rightly point out it is difficult to compare players from different eras but if you asked me who was the best player between Neymar and George Best I would say George Best all day long but the stats probably do not add up it is just my opinion

The same with Pele

To give you an analogy my youngest over the New Year asked me and my wife if David Bowie was better than Oasis?

Watched lots of Messi but too young to watch Pele except tv clips. What was it like watching him? How would you say he was the best?

[MWHIBBIES]

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If Pele played nowadays he would be better than these two imho he was anyway and always will be

As you rightly point out it is difficult to compare players from different eras but if you asked me who was the best player between Neymar and George Best I would say George Best all day long but the stats probably do not add up it is just my opinion

The same with Pele

To give you an analogy my youngest over the New Year asked me and my wife if David Bowie was better than Oasis?

If Pele played today he'd be about the level of other top strikers, Aguero, Kane etc. They'd have utterly pished on the Brazilian league in the 60s as well.

[hibsbollah]

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If you include training Pele scored 1500 maybe. You know that's 75 goals a season for 20 years? Pele didn't scored anything like 1500 goals. Most put him at 1200 but I find that pretty hard to believe, he must've been playing against some absolute ***** in Brazil.

Fine. But you claimed all the matrices favoured Messi and Ron, didn't you? There's the biggest one, goals scored, where they are way behind. Even if a few Pele goals were in friendlies or whatever, theres no way you can discount him getting more than double Messis.

[hibsbollah]

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1033 goals.. with nearly 400 of them in friendlys and the competitive ones not being at the top level. Strip out the goals from friendlies and Messi and Ronaldo have both scored not far off as many competitive goals, with theirs being at the top level and careers that are still ongoing.

Anyway, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree

[MWHIBBIES]

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Fine. But you claimed all the matrices favoured Messi and Ron, didn't you? There's the biggest one, goals scored, where they are way behind. Even if a few Pele goals were in friendlies or whatever, theres no way you can discount him getting more than double Messis.

Mind what Messi done to Hibs in a friendly? Imagine he could do that every week, he'd score alot more than 1500.

Messi has quite a few years in him yet remember. He's better than ever for goals and assist this season.

[majorhibs]

Huge Messi fan, but rethinkin, listen what Pele was doin back then was revolutionary, goals & technique & just about better at everything every time, Cruyyf tae, but the fact Pele did what he did just just shades it from Messi, people dissing cos coverage wasnae great then just “well”... watch & learn

[BILLYHIBS]

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Watched lots of Messi but too young to watch Pele except tv clips. What was it like watching him? How would you say he was the best?

To me he was total class he had everything he was the real deal!

Please do not take my word for it speak to older friends or family members

His official FIFA figures speak for itself

played 1363 scored 1281

https://youtu.be/a7pASpKEiKM

[SquashedFrogg]

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To me he was total class he had everything he was the real deal!

Please do not take my word for it speak to older friends or family members

His official FIFA figures speak for itself

played 1363 scored 1281

https://youtu.be/a7pASpKEiKM

Cheers man.

[majorhibs]

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Mind what Messi done to Hibs in a friendly? Imagine he could do that every week, he'd score alot more than 1500.

Messi has quite a few years in him yet remember. He's better than ever for goals and assist this season.

Mind well, said to the laddie, about 7ish then, only time ye’ll see me smilin while Hibs are bein skelped! Messi was then 21 & DC! Proud to have seen Hibs against such a legend.

[BILLYHIBS]

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If Pele played today he'd be about the level of other top strikers, Aguero, Kane etc. They'd have utterly pished on the Brazilian league in the 60s as well.

Eh? Pele better than Kane or Aguerro even Spurs or Man City fans will tell you that

Not only do you have all Peles goals and other achievements * there is also his untold number of assists

*
Please go onto Wikedpedia for full list of honours and achievements that put Kane and Aguerro well and truly in the shade too many to list here

[James Stephen]

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For me ,I would have liked to see messi do the business for argentina before he goes down as a true great.ive never really seen him inspire his country when he plays,looks a bit stroppy in that format,I think of great players bringing the best out of ther team,messi doesny do that for the argies.great club player undoubtedly.but not all round.ronaldo beats him for me easily.

Like win the under 20 world cup, win the olympics, get to three copa America finals and one world cup final?

Why does his greatness have to depend on whether Higuain could score a chance in a tight final?

Ive never understood that argument.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Eh? Pele better than Kane or Aguerro even Spurs or Man City fans will tell you that

Not only do you have all Peles goals and other achievements * there is also his untold number of assists

*
Please go onto Wikedpedia for full list of honours and achievements that put Kane and Aguerro well and truly in the shade too many to list here

Pele played in a pretty poor league his entire career. He never played Vs other top sides consistently. Nearly half his goals were in friendlies. He was obviously brilliant but the level of football in the 60s wasn't what it is now.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Pele played in a pretty poor league his entire career. He never played Vs other top sides consistently. Nearly half his goals were in friendlies. He was obviously brilliant but the level of football in the 60s wasn't what it is now.

OK going by your crazy logic the Spurs and Man City Managers can say to the market place our strikers are better than the great Pele the man voted the greatest ever footballer 500m each please

Regardless of your skewed logic if you look at Peles individual performances against the worlds greatest teams at that time you could tell just by looking at him he was a class apart and in a different league

I don’t believe I am defending or trying to justify the greatest player in the world on this forum

In my honest opinion of course
Santos World Club Winners 1962 and 1963
beat Benfica and Milan so their league couldnae have been that pish!

[MWHIBBIES]

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OK going by your crazy logic the Spurs and Man City Managers can say to the market place our strikers are better than the great Pele the man voted the greatest ever footballer 500m each please

Regardless of your skewed logic if you look at Peles individual performances against the worlds greatest teams at that time you could tell just by looking at him he was a class apart and in a different league

I don’t believe I am defending or trying to justify the greatest player in the world on this forum

In my honest opinion of course
Santos World Club Winners 1962 and 1963
beat Benfica and Milan so their league couldnae have been that pish!

Pele would be a brilliant player today, he wouldn't score anything like the goals he did though. He'd probably get 30/40 a season, like other top strikers. That's the point I'm making. With real defenders and Goalies instead of when teams played with 2 defenders he wouldn't look anywhere near as good. Pele was the best player when football was a game, it's now a profession and a lifestyle where winning matters at all costs. Look at some of his goals and how open it is. Nothing like today. Goalies didn't even have gloves FFS.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Pele would be a brilliant player today, he wouldn't score anything like the goals he did though. He'd probably get 30/40 a season, like other top strikers. That's the point I'm making. With real defenders and Goalies instead of when teams played with 2 defenders he wouldn't look anywhere near as good. Pele was the best player when football was a game, it's now a profession and a lifestyle where winning matters at all costs. Look at some of his goals and how open it is. Nothing like today. Goalies didn't even have gloves FFS.

Agree! But Pele would be fitter faster have decent bits then again we all had Puma King Peles and wanted to be him I remember my hero Sojer had a pair Pele would also be carrying less weight as he would be on protein and less carbs so it would be win win he would also earn loads more money like my other hero King Paddy should have
Dont spoil it Peles still the King to me and millions of others

[MWHIBBIES]

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Agree! But Pele would be fitter faster have decent bits then again we all had Puma King Peles and wanted to be him I remember my hero Sojer had a pair Pele would also be carrying less weight as he would be on protein and less carbs so it would be win win he would also learn loads more money like my other hero King Paddy should have
Dont spoil it Peles still the King to me and millions of others

You need some punctuation in there.

[The 90+2]

A chain smoker from Holland was the best player and manager the world has ever seen.

[BILLYHIBS]

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You need some punctuation in there.

I know difficult on my mobile I can hardly see the screen I’m in my sixties you know need my iPad

[BILLYHIBS]

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A chain smoker from Holland was the best player and manager the world has ever seen.

Mentioned him!

[hibsbollah]

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A chain smoker from Holland was the best player and manager the world has ever seen.

Agree, but Latapy wasn't Dutch.

[CMurdoch]

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If Pele played nowadays he would be better than these two imho he was anyway and always will be

As you rightly point out it is difficult to compare players from different eras but if you asked me who was the best player between Neymar and George Best I would say George Best all day long but the stats probably do not add up it is just my opinion

The same with Pele

To give you an analogy my youngest over the New Year asked me and my wife if David Bowie was better than Oasis?

The Thin White Duke or a group of revisionist, good for 2 albums bawbags.
Toughie right enough

[BILLYHIBS]

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The Thin White Duke or a group of revisionist, good for 2 albums bawbags.
Toughie right enough

Aye!

I just looked at my Mrs and we burst out laughing

The laddie wondered what we were laughing at?

He knew

[BILLYHIBS]

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Agree, but Latapy wasn't Dutch.

Another of my heroes!

That is for another thread

[The 90+2]

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Agree, but Latapy wasn't Dutch.

Amen. He is still my footballing god. 👍