Messi

[My_Wife_Camille]

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Not so much related to Scottish football on its own but when I watch football from the 70s I always think the standard looks miles behind what it is now.

Totally agree with this. Some of the highlights I’ve seen from the 50’s, both Hibs and otherwise, are so bad they are laughable. Have you ever seen the footage from the 58 World Cup? It looks like a bunch of jokers running around the Gyle Park hungover on a Sunday morning.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Messi, of course currently, Pele & Maradona honourable mentions, the only Ronaldo near Messi was the 21 year old Brazilian World Cup winner before he imploded, not the joker.

Why isn't Cristiano close to Messi? He is no joker, he's incredible. 2nd best player ever.

[calumhibee1]

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Why isn't Cristiano close to Messi? He is no joker, he's incredible. 2nd best player ever.

Agree with that. Don’t think he’s quite as good but he is utterly exceptional. IMO he’s comfortably the 2nd best ever and probably even the best out and out goalscorer ever.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Agree with that. Don’t think he’s quite as good but he is utterly exceptional. IMO he’s comfortably the 2nd best ever and probably even the best out and out goalscorer ever.

Indeed. There is no real metric that puts anyone above them other than people remembering greats from their child hood through tinted goggles. Footballers are better than ever and those 2 are the absolute best.

[cleanyman]

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Indeed. There is no real metric that puts anyone above them other than people remembering greats from their child hood through tinted goggles. Footballers are better than ever and those 2 are the absolute best.

Hmmmm

There's no doubt that footballers are fitter and more athletic than they've ever been but ARE they better footballers? I'd probably disagree with that. Look at George Best and Jimmy Johnstone and what they could do with a football.

[hibsbollah]

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Indeed. There is no real metric that puts anyone above them other than people remembering greats from their child hood through tinted goggles. Footballers are better than ever and those 2 are the absolute best.

There is no 'metric' when assessing the best player ever. You seem to have a problem differentiating an opinion and a fact. An opinion is like an ersehole, everyone has one.

[calumhibee1]

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Hmmmm

There's no doubt that footballers are fitter and more athletic than they've ever been but ARE they better footballers? I'd probably disagree with that. Look at George Best and Jimmy Johnstone and what they could do with a football.

I look at goals like Zidanes volley at Hampden or Rooney, Ronaldo or Bales overhead kicks in recent years and I just don’t see players with that kind of technique in old clips.

I’ll admit I’m too young to remember much pre-2000 though so I’m probably as guilty of seeing things of my generation through rose tinted glasses as much as people of an older generation would be for their generations footballers. I would say though that I’ve never watched an old clip of a football game and thought wow, that’s superb other than Maradonas goal against England.

[cleanyman]

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I look at goals like Zidanes volley at Hampden or Rooney, Ronaldo or Bales overhead kicks in recent years and I just don’t see players with that kind of technique in old clips.

I’ll admit I’m too young to remember much pre-2000 though so I’m probably as guilty of seeing things of my generation through rose tinted glasses as much as people of an older generation would be for their generations footballers. I would say though that I’ve never watched an old clip of a football game and thought wow, that’s superb other than Maradonas goal against England.

As I said I used to think that.

But since then I've watched hundreds of videos of our best ever players and realised that I don't think the current generation are indeed better footballers. Zidane's volley by the way was nearly 17 years ago....will we be dismissing Zidane in another 10 years time?

Look at Davie Cooper's goal on youtube...think it was a Scottish Cup semi. What a hit.

[calumhibee1]

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As I said I used to think that.

But since then I've watched hundreds of videos of our best ever players and realised that I don't think the current generation are indeed better footballers. Zidane's volley by the way was nearly 17 years ago....will we be dismissing Zidane in another 10 years time?

Look at Davie Cooper's goal on youtube...think it was a Scottish Cup semi. What a hit.

I hadn’t actually really considered how long ago Zidanes goal was, can’t believe that.

I am probably slightly biased to my generation of footballers. Is the Davie Cooper goal against St Mirren/Dunfermline? Was a good hit but goals like that appear in the top leagues every few weeks nowadays.

I do agree with MWC though.. the footage of the 1958 WC makes the standard look really really bad

[BILLYHIBS]

Pele

Messi is very good but to me Pele is the man

Perfect poise finishing balance and the master of every part of the art be it trapping dribbling passing heading athleticism scorer of over 1000 goals in his career scoring three in the 1958 World Cup Semi Final and two in the final as a a seventeen year old

A Brazilian legend and worldwide icon

When I think of Pele I think of him in the same terms as my other hero Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali)

Both these guys had the X Factor and they both oozed total class both the masters of their sport

Pele : birth of a legend is a good movie

My favourite match involving Pele was the 1970 World Cup Final Brazil 4 v 1 Italy the all time perfect team performance

I rate Messi along side Christiano Ronaldo but Messi just shades it but then we also have Maradona and Johan Cryuff who were both brilliant as well as our own Gordon Smith and the unforgettable George Best

All of the above from different decades and heroes of different generations

In the current generation I see a lot of Peles qualities in Kylian MBappe of PSG but to me the untouchable Pele is my all time great

Played 1363 scored 1281
Source: FIFA

[calumhibee1]

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When I think of Pele I think of him in the same terms as my other hero Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali)

This is the most outlandish of these comparisons that keep coming up recently that I’ve seen yet..

Only kidding

[BILLYHIBS]

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This is the most outlandish of these comparisons that keep coming up recently that I’ve seen yet..

Only kidding

Ha Ha!

Was having a wee chuckle at your comments on the 1958 World Cup

I suggest you look at footage of the Final again a few goals that any public park footballer would be proud of regardless of the era

[MWHIBBIES]

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Hmmmm

There's no doubt that footballers are fitter and more athletic than they've ever been but ARE they better footballers? I'd probably disagree with that. Look at George Best and Jimmy Johnstone and what they could do with a football.

Messi and Ronaldo have almost scored more goals than Best made appearances. No real comparison, Messi is much better.

[MWHIBBIES]

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There is no 'metric' when assessing the best player ever. You seem to have a problem differentiating an opinion and a fact. An opinion is like an ersehole, everyone has one.

My opinion is that there is no comparison. I base it on facts. Of course there is different ways to judge the best players ever. Messi and Ronaldo dominate every one.

[calumhibee1]

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Messi and Ronaldo have almost scored more goals than Best made appearances. No real comparison, Messi is much better.

Messi has scored the exact same as Bests appearances, Ronaldo has scored 2 more.

They’ve also both scored not a kick in the arse off triple the amount of goals and counting.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Messi has scored the exact same as Bests appearances, Ronaldo has scored 2 more.

They’ve also both scored not a kick in the arse off triple the amount of goals and counting.

There you go then, my mistake. Best isn't close to them at all.

[cleanyman]

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Messi and Ronaldo have almost scored more goals than Best made appearances. No real comparison, Messi is much better.

The debate was 'better' footballers

I'm not doubting that Messi is a better footballer than Best. But in no way is someone like Neymar anywhere near him

There seems to be this argument that football before 1992 was irrelevant and the standard was no where near as good as today's

Well...just watch it. I'd like to see these supposedly 'better' footballers play with a two tonne ball and in mudbaths

[MWHIBBIES]

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The debate was 'better' footballers

I'm not doubting that Messi is a better footballer than Best. But in no way is someone like Neymar anywhere near him

There seems to be this argument that football before 1992 was irrelevant and the standard was no where near as good as today's

Well...just watch it. I'd like to see these supposedly 'better' footballers play with a two tonne ball and in mudbaths

I wouldn't like to see that at all but they'd still be excellent. Neymar has already achieved more than Best, scored more for club in less games. To suggest he's nowhere near best is crazy imo

[hibsbollah]

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My opinion is that there is no comparison. I base it on facts. Of course there is different ways to judge the best players ever. Messi and Ronaldo dominate every one.

Until someone invents a time machine, it's still just an opinion as valid as mine.

[cleanyman]

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I wouldn't like to see that at all but they'd still be excellent. Neymar has already achieved more than Best, scored more for club in less games. To suggest he's nowhere near best is crazy imo

As a footballer he isn't anywhere near Best. I'm yet to see anything from him that suggests that.

[hibsbollah]

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I wouldn't like to see that at all but they'd still be excellent. Neymar has already achieved more than Best, scored more for club in less games. To suggest he's nowhere near best is crazy imo

Best is better than Neymar. I think it's 'crazy' to suggest otherwise. But its just an opinion.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Until someone invents a time machine, it's still just an opinion as valid as mine.

Based on quite a bit more though.

[MWHIBBIES]

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Best is better than Neymar. I think it's 'crazy' to suggest otherwise. But its just an opinion.

Why? How was Best better?

[hibsbollah]

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Why? How was Best better?

He just was

[calumhibee1]

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Best is better than Neymar. I think it's 'crazy' to suggest otherwise. But its just an opinion.

Do you believe football was of a higher standard in the past than it is now? Especially at the top level?

[cleanyman]

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Do you believe football was of a higher standard in the past than it is now? Especially at the top level?

No

It's more athletic but the footballers aren't better

[BILLYHIBS]

In my day footballers were all different shapes and sizes each with their own attributes nowadays they are all SPARTANS apart from the irrepressible Messi of course!

[hibsbollah]

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Do you believe football was of a higher standard in the past than it is now? Especially at the top level?

Slower, less tactically advanced, less physically powerful players in the past. That favoured players that had more football intelligence. It's just different. Biggest difference nowadays is technological revolution. In ball design, boot design, the state of the pitches, post match analytics, VT, nutrition etc.

I just reject the notion you can make it all about numbers.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Slower, less tactically advanced, less physically powerful players in the past. That favoured players that had more football intelligence. It's just different. Biggest difference nowadays is technological revolution. In ball design, boot design, the state of the pitches, post match analytics, VT, nutrition etc.

I just reject the notion you can make it all about numbers.

Agree 100%

Players nowadays couldnae lace ma boots

[calumhibee1]

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Slower, less tactically advanced, less physically powerful players in the past. That favoured players that had more football intelligence. It's just different. Biggest difference nowadays is technological revolution. In ball design, boot design, the state of the pitches, post match analytics, VT, nutrition etc.

I just reject the notion you can make it all about numbers.

I agree to an extent with your last sentence. I do however think that if football is at the very least not any worse than it used to be then a guy with such significantly better numbers in near enough every possible metric in Neymar should surely be seen as at least comparable to George Best? Both played similar positions, both at the top level majority of their careers.. if the stats were a bit closer then I’d be more inclined to allow them to hold less weight but they’re hugely in favour of Neymar.