Referees joining the statement league

[One Day]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Exactly my thoughts on this as well. If he really did see the incidents then why no talking to the player. Beaton is a cheat.

This

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Remember Bartley was sent off about 3 times before Christmas and I'm sure at least 2 of them were overturned our last season in the championship.


Maybe the referees should be made to state which team they support so they aren't allowed to referee games involving those clubs? Or maybe deep down the SFA know the majority of them are Celtic or rangers fans so it will never happen.

Or the period a few years ago when we went derby after derby with Hearts getting people retrospectively sent off in derbies with us gaining no advantage whatsoever because they ‘missed’ the incident during the game every time.

[Callum_62]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Or the period a few years ago when we went derby after derby with Hearts getting people retrospectively sent off in derbies with us gaining no advantage whatsoever because they ‘missed’ the incident during the game every time.

Ive always thought retrospective should mean they miss the next match against the team they were playing when they should have been sent off


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[neil7908]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Remember Bartley was sent off about 3 times before Christmas and I'm sure at least 2 of them were overturned our last season in the championship.


Maybe the referees should be made to state which team they support so they aren't allowed to referee games involving those clubs? Or maybe deep down the SFA know the majority of them are Celtic or rangers fans so it will never happen.

Your second paragraph is a great idea. Judges have to recuse themselves from any cases where there might be a conflict of interest. I refuse to believe anyone with enough of an interest in football to become a ref doesn't support a team.

They should have to declare that publicly and be banned from officiating any game directly involving that team, or one that might have a massive impact on their league position.

Refs are ordinary people who don't deserve a lot of the abuse they get. Bur that works both ways. They are getting paid a fair chunk of cash and should be much more accountable for their actions and open about why they have made certain decisions.

[Ringothedog]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Remember Bartley was sent off about 3 times before Christmas and I'm sure at least 2 of them were overturned our last season in the championship.


Maybe the referees should be made to state which team they support so they aren't allowed to referee games involving those clubs? Or maybe deep down the SFA know the majority of them are Celtic or rangers fans so it will never happen.

If referees had to give a club affiliation, you will be stunned by how many would support Dumbarton, Albion Rovers,Annan etc

[Diclonius]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

If referees had to give a club affiliation, you will be stunned by how many would support Dumbarton, Albion Rovers,Annan etc

Yup. Even if they aren't going to be biased, a lot of them would put their "wee team" so they wouldn't miss out on big games or the OF derby. I'd be in half a mind to put Arbroath if prompted.

I suppose the SFA could request to have your allegiance verified by 2/3 impartial acquaintances.

[jgl07]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

VAR would be prohibitively expensive to use in the Scottish game.

I thought that Hearts were going to pay for it?

[Eyrie]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

What there not supposed to be some official website run by refs where they could post their reasons behind certain decisions but it was never used?

I’d never want to be a ref but some of the decisions they make, with no rationale behind them, are inexcusable.

Agreed. If a referee is able to make a decision, he is able to explain that decision in a statement.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

VAR would be prohibitively expensive to use in the Scottish game.

The true cost to the Scottish game would be the number of points that the Ugly Sisters would no longer get through dodgy penalties and players not being banned. I think most of us would willingly pay that price.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yup. Even if they aren't going to be biased, a lot of them would put their "wee team" so they wouldn't miss out on big games or the OF derby. I'd be in half a mind to put Arbroath if prompted.

I suppose the SFA could request to have your allegiance verified by 2/3 impartial acquaintances.

It would be like job references - the referees would name people who they knew would give a supportive answer.

[weecounty hibby]

I look forward to the statement that says. " after further review of the incidents in question, the Referees Association have decided to downgrade John Beaton as the decisions he made on that day were incorrect. Further more he still continues to assert that the decisions that day did not merit a card of any colour so he will not be officiating at any further top class matches this season. He will have to undergo additional training and assessment before he will be considered for any future matches"

Any chance of that?

[Weststandwanab]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Yup. Even if they aren't going to be biased, a lot of them would put their "wee team" so they wouldn't miss out on big games or the OF derby. I'd be in half a mind to put Arbroath if prompted.

I suppose the SFA could request to have your allegiance verified by 2/3 impartial acquaintances.

Otherwise known as doing a "Chick" !

[Keith_M]

Totally agree that they need to dump the ruling whereby if a referee said he saw the incident, it can't then be retroactively dealt with.

It's quite clear that the judgement of the refs in many incidents is questionable, to say the least. An independent panel should be allowed to assess incidents after the event and take whatever action is necessary.

It should then be the case that if a Ref has had a certain number of calls overturned, in the short term he should be given a private warning and, if it persists, it should affect his Referee Grading.

I also think that if Referees are seen socializing with questionable groups of people that may lead to accusations of impartiality (e.g. in Loyalist or Republican bars), they should be told in no uncertain terms to stop doing so or their careers are at stake.


Finally, the concentration of Grade A Refs in the Lanarkshire, Glasgow and Ayrshire regions is utterly ridiculous.

[The Green Goblin]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Beaton said he seen the incidents and would not have shown any cards. VAR would only have shown him the same replays he has since seen, so no, in this case jt would make no difference at all.

Knowing VAR was running might put pressure on him to act? It shouldn’t be necessary, I know.

[jgl07]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Totally agree that they need to dump the ruling whereby if a referee said he saw the incident, it can't then be retroactively dealt with.

It's quite clear that the judgement of the refs in many incidents is questionable, to say the least. An independent panel should be allowed to assess incidents after the event and take whatever action is necessary.

It should then be the case that if a Ref has had a certain number of calls overturned, in the short term he should be given a private warning and, if it persists, it should affect his Referee Grading.

I also think that if Referees are seen socializing with questionable groups of people that may lead to accusations of impartiality (e.g. in Loyalist or Republican bars), they should be told in no uncertain terms to stop doing so or their careers are at stake.


Finally, the concentration of Grade A Refs in the Lanarkshire, Glasgow and Ayrshire regions is utterly ridiculous.

That’s where half the population of Scotland lives.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Ive always thought retrospective should mean they miss the next match against the team they were playing when they should have been sent off


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've been going on about that for years.

[calumhibee1]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That’s where half the population of Scotland lives.

But nearly the full population of pro referees.

[Keith_M]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

That’s where half the population of Scotland lives.

But almost all our Grade A Refs.


Did you know that there was a gap of one hundred years between Scottish Cup Finals that had an Edinburgh Referee?

[Salisbury Hibby]

Appalling grammar and spelling. I'd be surprised if this is genuine. Where was this obtained?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Fratelli]

Apologies if this clip has been posted elsewhere but this incident just demonstrates how long Beaton has been cheating clubs that play against Ibrox based teams.

The goalie jumps up mid-way the 6 yard box but ends up over the goal-line and neither Beaton nor the near-side linesman deemed it a foul.

Of course Rangers were losing 1.0 heading into the latter stages of the game.

Beaton isn’t incompetent, he is a blatant cheat but VAR will make it more difficult for these types of officials to influence games.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/scotland/26509298

[neil7908]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Apologies if this clip has been posted elsewhere but this incident just demonstrates how long Beaton has been cheating clubs that play against Ibrox based teams.

The goalie jumps up mid-way the 6 yard box but ends up over the goal-line and neither Beaton nor the near-side linesman deemed it a foul.

Of course Rangers were losing 1.0 heading into the latter stages of the game.

Beaton isn’t incompetent, he is a blatant cheat but VAR will make it more difficult for these types of officials to influence games.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/av/scotland/26509298

What a joke.

[cabbageandribs1875]

even moshni is pointing to his own eyes indicating the referee is a blind ****






:)

[cleanyman]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

But almost all our Grade A Refs.


Did you know that there was a gap of one hundred years between Scottish Cup Finals that had an Edinburgh Referee?

A large proportion of our assistants are from the East

[J-C]

Don't agree with the numpties threatening anyone but all the criticism they've had recently they must surely take responsibility for their performances over the past few years. Some of these performances have been truly abysmal and understandably many people see them as corrupt, particularly the clear hand ball missed by Muir against Falkirk in the 1st play off game.

[Just Jimmy]

VAR takes forever to make a decision and IMO all it does is give a ref even more excuse to bottle big decisions then listen to someone else tell him in his ear what should happen.

I was at UTD v Reading yesterday. 5 mins to decide to award a penalty, that I said to my mates in real time that Fred was offside and that Mata had been fouled. Yet the ref initially gave the offside, then spoke to the linesman, then stood for five minutes listening to his ear piece.

he got it right in the end; but the point is why didn't he get it right without the video, it was obvious.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[overdrive]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Agreed. If a referee is able to make a decision, he is able to explain that decision in a statement.


The true cost to the Scottish game would be the number of points that the Ugly Sisters would no longer get through dodgy penalties and players not being banned. I think most of us would willingly pay that price.


It would be like job references - the referees would name people who they knew would give a supportive answer.

I don’t think the SFA would even care. I used to know a current top flight official but back when he was refereeing junior and senior reserve-equivalent matches. He said he declared to the SFA that he had shares in a club in the SPL (as it was at the time) and all he had to do was transfer them over to his wife which isn’t really removing the financial conflict of interest at all. A quick check online of the games he’s been involved in over the last couple seasons show up a disproportionate number of games involving that team he had shares in (edit: no idea if his wife or other family member have since disposed of the shares).

[hibbysam]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

Sorry, have to disagree as to how this would have played out had VAR been available.

In this particular instance, yes Beaton allegedly said that he did see all 3 incidents and of course this fits with the narrative of not punishing Morelos retrospectively which will be supported by the Establishment.

However, I simply don’t accept that had Beaton been called to the touch-line on 3 separate occasions to review the incidents that he would have still taken no action.

The current system makes it easy for him to take the easy option and say ‘I saw the incidents but they didn’t warrant any further action’. And make no mistake, all referees know that they can hide behind this...

He was standing right in front of the brown one as I said it to my mate at the time. He quite clearly seen the full scale of that and decided to ignore (i originally thought as it was so early in the game), id have to look at the other two but the Ralston one he was there very quickly so I presume he was on hand to see that incident too and chose not to penalise. The touchy feely one is a wee bit different as it was sly but I’d say it’s easier for him to say now he missed it than make a huge call during the game. At least now he has no way of affecting the game and could save himself abuse if eh just said ‘I didn’t see it’

[KerPlunk]

The following was posted on ‘another site’ recently :-
By Alan Campbell in The Herald:*https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport...tle_on_unrest/
IT all got too much for Neil Lennon at Rugby Park last month when a penalty awarded to*Kilmarnock*by referee Kevin Clancy incensed the Hibernian manager and sparked a confrontation with the official.
But while nobody, not even Lennon himself, would have been surprised by his subsequent five-match Scottish FA touchline ban (two of them suspended), what is astonishing is that among the biggest critics of the refereeing system in*Scotland*are many of the officials themselves.
Lennon received the ban for misconduct, but was not further punished for his post-match comments to journalists when he laid into Clancy in particular, and Scottish refereeing standards in general. “Mickey Mouse stuff,” Lennon said contemptuously.
A fortnight earlier Tommy Wright, the*St Johnstonemanager, was more measured when complaining about the performance of another referee, Andrew Dallas, following his dismissal of David Wotherspoon in a league game at Tynecastle.
What linked the two managers’ remarks was that both claimed it was a waste of time phoning the SFA’s head of refereeing operations, John Fleming, on a Monday to complain about his top officials.
“I have probably spoken to John Fleming about Andrew Dallas more than any referee. Nothing seems to change,” Wright said.
Lennon was in agreement. “You ring John Fleming on a Monday and you get the same ‘yeah, yeah’. You go round in circles, and I’ve lost a lot of faith in it to tell you the truth,” he said.
It seems that view is shared in refereeing circles. Clancy and Dallas are regarded by many of their peers as being among a select few in Scotland who wear “bullet-proof vests”. That is because they are Fifa-list referees – the other five in this category being John Beaton, Willie Collum, Bobby Madden, Don Robertson and Nick Walsh.
According to recently- retired referees the Sunday Herald has spoken to, the seven Fifa officials are allocated*Premiership*matches regardless of how many mistakes they are accused of making.
Meanwhile, other Category 1 referees find themselves demoted to the lower leagues if, and when, they make similar errors, losing not only status but the much higher financial payments available in the top league.
Another allegation is that geographical bias is also a factor, according to James Bee, a former Category 2 referee who retired in 2014 and is secretary of the Prospect professional trade union branch of Scottish referees.
“This isn’t just about Fifa referees – it goes wider than that,” said Bee, pictured bottom left. “There are others at Category 1 level who are treated differently [from their colleagues] as well. There appears to be a geographical bias favouring referees from three central belt associations to the detriment of the others.”
Bee points out that of the seven current Fifa referees, three belong to the*Glasgow*association, with Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire each having two. He further states that the last*Edinburgh*Fifa referee was Calum Murray, who came off the list in 2013. The last Ayrshire referee was in 2007, in Fife it was 2000, and*Aberdeen*1999.
“There’s nothing wrong with every country appointing who they believe to be the seven top referees to the Fifa category,” Bee continued. “What has been questioned is how these decisions are arrived at – and what the process is behind them.
“The first Scottish Cup final was in 1873 – and it was 107 years before an Edinburgh referee was appointed to take charge. It is now 145 years since that first final and there has been a total of three. I think that would be reflected in the other associations outwith Glasgow, Lanarkshire and Renfrewshire.”
REMARKABLY, some referees in recent years have been put on the Fifa list without having ever taken charge of a Premiership match.
“The Fifa rules state that a referee can’t be appointed to the list younger than 28,” Bee explained. “The SFA’s referee operations department and referee committee will look at the guys coming up to that age and would hope to identify referees who are good enough.
“That never used to be the case, but the policy for a few years now is the younger the better. As somebody once said to me, if they’re targeting younger guys that’s great – but why does it always seem to be younger guys from the same three associations? Do people from these three areas have a genetic predisposition for refereeing?”
One high-profile former referee, speaking on the guarantee of anonymity, said: “You can pick somebody to grow into a position, but you can’t buy experience. You can pass a fitness test, or a laws of the game examination – but it’s the practical nature and man management of dealing with 22 players and two sets of coaching staff that’s going to be the deciding factor as to whether or not, over time, you’re good enough to do the job.
“To be able to look at somebody [for the Fifa list] without having had that experience just beggars belief.”
THE Scottish Senior Football Referees Association (SSFRA) was formed in 2005 as a vehicle for referees to raise issues, both within the referee department and the SFA. Bee is a former chairman, but, like other ex-referees spoken to, believes it now isn’t fit for purpose.
The current chairman is Lennon’s nemesis Clancy, and it is understood about 50 match officials are members. Prospect have some 65 members, including several Premiership officials, yet the SFA refuse to deal with the union – in contrast with the Football Association in England.
Brian Colvin retired at the end of 2015 and says it is impossible for the SSFRA to properly represent his former colleagues when they feel they need to raise issues.
“The fact that active referees run the SSFRA is fundamentally flawed,” Colvin said. “When I was refereeing at the top level, I would have been very uncomfortable taking a serious matter – such as an issue with appointments – to the SSFRA. It’s easy to argue that it doesn’t have the skill set, or indeed the freedom, to act in the collective best interests of referees.
“I would have felt the opposite approaching experts within Prospect, knowing they would undoubtedly be able to give me sound, confidential and professional advice – as well as taking issues forward to the SFA, should it be required, without any risks or concerns. I didn’t feel this was the case with the current SSFRA model.”
THAT many referees do have concerns was laid bare in a survey conducted by Prospect among 50 of their members. Asked if they believed the match appointments and grading of referees was fair and transparent, a staggering 82 per cent replied they did not.
When asked if they felt the SFA was concerned with their well-being and development, the referees’ replies were also in the negative – 62 per cent said they felt the governing body wasn’t concerned. The survey was conducted 15 months ago, but this is the first time the results have been published and the anecdotal evidence is that the perceived problems very much remain.
The former referee quoted earlier who asked not to be named said: “There was a feeling of ‘them and us’ among the 30 or so Category 1 referees when I was there. Clearly the referees who have the Fifa badge have to be refereeing the top games domestically, but you would want everything to be fair and transparent. Those are two key concepts that I don’t think were ever achieved.
“The 82 per cent negative response [to the survey question on match appointments and the grading of referees being fair and transparent] is extremely high. You would expect there to be a degree of disgruntlement but that’s astronomic. As you’re getting promoted through the ranks you’re flavour of the month, or you must be at some stage to get to Category 1, but what happened within that category was extremely demotivating.
“It just wasn’t fair. You would see high-profile errors being made by some referees without the same repercussions as there were for others.”
THE former official believes that a small number of referee match observers, former referees who grade performances from the stands, contribute hugely to the alleged problems of geographical bias and favouritism.
“The grading clearly had an effect on what fixtures you got over time,” he said. “The vast majority of observers I found to be helpful and trustworthy, but there was a small group who I would say were extremely biased towards their own referee associations.
“Some of their views were so way off the mark from any other feedback you got, and consistently so over a number of years, that what they wrote wasn’t worth the paper it was written on. You just wouldn’t read their reports.
“The vast majority of us are accustomed in our day jobs to being held accountable and appraised. It’s a very similar system in refereeing, but when it’s as unfair in certain quarters as it is, it just stinks.”
THE SFA RESPONSE
A Scottish FA spokesperson said: “The Scottish FA is committed to the development and well-being of match officials – with a recruitment programme that stretches across the country.
“We appreciate the contribution from those across all levels of the domestic game and have an open-door policy to listen to any concerns individuals may have.”
[/quote]

[SChibs]

I don't understand this referee saw the incident rule. I'm sure a Hamilton player was yellow carded in a game this season but was also given a 2 match ban a few days after the game for the challenge after it was reviewed. I think it was Darian MacKinnon.

It's as if there's one rule for some clubs and another rule for others

[The Harp Awakes]

The guys issuing threats are lowlife and actually deflect attention away from the real problem; incompetent and biased refereeing/governing authorities.

Beaton has previous for this stuff, particularly at Ibrox. So why was he allowed to ref a Rangers v Celtic game at Ibrox? That decision goes deeper than Beaton being a biased ref as it calls into question the integrity of the football authorities.

[Ozyhibby]

New Rangers have released about three statements this season criticising referees and we hear nothing. Celtic release one statement and suddenly the SFA, the refs themselves and the media hit back hard.
Interesting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[where'stheslope]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

VAR is definitely the way forward but it won't fix the underlying bias displayed by referees in our game.

There is also so much inconsistency and a failure to explain why certain decisions are made.

Handball is the one that gets me the most. I've been watching football for 25 years and still don't understand why some are given, some aren't and when a card is given or not. I've read the official rules on it and they just don't seem to translate into the reality of decisions game to game. For instance, how did the Hearts guy (think it was Harring?) not yet booked in the derby? That was a text book case of hand ball and no booking.

There are other rules though where they seem to be deliberately vague to the point that person A would watch multiple replays and say one thing and person B would say the opposite. What constitutes persistent fouling? Some might say 3-4 but we've had cases of opposition players at ER committing 5-6 and not getting carded.

What about interfering in play around offsides? How do you define interfering?

VAR will ensure the worst calls are caught out and fixed but there must be more transparency in why certain decisions are made and as other posters have said, more openness about mistakes and explaining why they were made.

The current view of refs seems to they are semi-Godlike figures who can't be questioned or admit any failure. That has to end.

I take it you never seen the incident when Miller was at Rangers playing the Yams, it was a diagonal crossfield ball going over his head out of play.
He jumped up and caught it then threw it to the ground, the referee just stood and laughed and gave a thrown in, even although the ball never went out of play?

Every player on the park is interfering with play, either by distracting the opposition or trying to gain advantage, the rule is a joke!!!

My bugbear nowadays is obstruction, players walking the ball out of play and obstructing the other player from playing the ball when having no intention of playing it himself????