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  1. #61
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    Watched this during the week, thought it was fantastic. Not sure why Bain is getting so much stick, the reason for their problems was their owner. Looking forward to next series


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  3. #62
    @hibs.net private member 90+2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Sauzee View Post
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    Think itís just Netflix
    Thanks 👍

  4. #63
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keyser Sauzee View Post
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    Watched this during the week, thought it was fantastic. Not sure why Bain is getting so much stick, the reason for their problems was their owner. Looking forward to next series
    I thought Bain discussing the clubs transfer strategy with a youth team coach and then Ďtellingí Grayson what it would be was quite bizarre. Iím not sure if I missed a bit that explained it but I couldnít make sense of that.

    Is there going to be a second series?

  5. #64
    @hibs.net private member KeithTheHibby's Avatar
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    Very good documentary, looking forward to any future series.

    The minute they let Lewis Grabban leave they were doomed. Chris Coleman has to take some blame in that. He was replaced by Ashley Fletcher who was a huge flop. Some pretty bad decisions too. I think they were chopping and changing their keepers regularly too? Seem to remember 3 different ones.
    Years of mismanagement has resulted in them being in this position. I get the impression that bang average players were quite happy to come and play for Sunderland for pots of cash but not actually give 2 ****s about the club. Newcastle for me are pretty similar.

    Wonder if it's a north east thing as in players just don't take to the place?

  6. #65
    @hibs.net private member KeithTheHibby's Avatar
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    Aidan McGeady was also quite scathing about the management - not sure if he was talking about Grayson or Coleman however he pretty much said that even when they had been pumped when they returned to training it was all jokes like it never happened.

    They do seem to be in a better place now.

  7. #66
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithTheHibby View Post
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    Very good documentary, looking forward to any future series.

    The minute they let Lewis Grabban leave they were doomed. Chris Coleman has to take some blame in that. He was replaced by Ashley Fletcher who was a huge flop. Some pretty bad decisions too. I think they were chopping and changing their keepers regularly too? Seem to remember 3 different ones.
    Years of mismanagement has resulted in them being in this position. I get the impression that bang average players were quite happy to come and play for Sunderland for pots of cash but not actually give 2 ****s about the club. Newcastle for me are pretty similar.

    Wonder if it's a north east thing as in players just don't take to the place?
    I don't know if it came out in the documentary (I've still only seen half of it) but Fletcher was on a pretty mad deal - he plays, Sunderland pay nothing towards his wages, he doesn't play then Sunderland were due to pay his wages in full (which they couldn't afford). They therefore had to play a striker every week who was horribly out of form. The alternatives weren't plentiful but that was a pretty shocking situation to find themselves in.

    For all I now have an affinity towards Sunderland I had to chuckle at the Newcastle fans singing at their game through the week "we saw you crying on Netflix."

    With the recent chat re their finances - they are still carrying some players on whopping salaries. For all they're at least currently getting a tune out of them, Oviedo and Cattermole will be on crazy wages. There are still a few more, like Adam Matthews, who will be on a decent whack. Any of them leave then they've got money for a few Scott Allans with a fair bit still being saved on top.
    Last edited by Smartie; 12-01-2019 at 02:05 PM.

  8. #67
    @hibs.net private member overdrive's Avatar
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    Grayson was a pundit on BT recently and they asked him about the series. He pointed out that Coleman had significantly more games in charge that season than he did. I think the editing made it feel like Coleman was there around the same amount of time or less and that was maybe designed to elicit more sympathy for him.

  9. #68
    Coaching Staff Smartie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by overdrive View Post
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    Grayson was a pundit on BT recently and they asked him about the series. He pointed out that Coleman had significantly more games in charge that season than he did. I think the editing made it feel like Coleman was there around the same amount of time or less and that was maybe designed to elicit more sympathy for him.
    Grayson had a summer to plan (admittedly in less than ideal circumstances) whereas Coleman inherited a shambles part way through the season.

    Whilst I don't think either manager was really to blame for their problems, if either of them had managed to get their hands on an average keeper they'd have stayed up.

    If they'd have stayed up I think they'd have struggled badly again this season - they've needed another relegation to get a winning habit and a bit of confidence back. Good to see that a large chunk of their fans have stuck by them too.

  10. #69
    Watched the whole thing start to end the other weekend. Thought it was brilliant.

    Pretty sure Iíll be in the minority here, but I thought Martin Bain came across quite well. Genuinely seemed to care unlike the new boys that came in at the end.

  11. #70
    @hibs.net private member Bishop Hibee's Avatar
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    Finished watching it recently. Great viewing although car crash material at times. Jack Rodwell came across as a nasty piece of work. Bled the club dry of money that could have been used to keep them up. Absolute hate figure for Sunderland fans still. I thought Grayson was out of his depth and Coleman needed a bad cop assistant to his good cop.

    I saw Ashley Fletcher and Paddy McNair playing for Middlesbrough last Saturday. McNair cost them £5.5m but didnít look anything special. Fletcher looked a player though.

    My only real quibble was the portrayal of the fan base. Having lived down there Iíd say at least 50% of their fans live in parts of County Durham outside Sunderland and this wasnít really given any coverage at all. The passion they have for the club came across well though.

    Series two should be an interesting contrast.
    "Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.' - Paulo Freire

  12. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee View Post
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    Finished watching it recently. Great viewing although car crash material at times. Jack Rodwell came across as a nasty piece of work. Bled the club dry of money that could have been used to keep them up. Absolute hate figure for Sunderland fans still. I thought Grayson was out of his depth and Coleman needed a bad cop assistant to his good cop.

    I saw Ashley Fletcher and Paddy McNair playing for Middlesbrough last Saturday. McNair cost them £5.5m but didnít look anything special. Fletcher looked a player though.

    My only real quibble was the portrayal of the fan base. Having lived down there Iíd say at least 50% of their fans live in parts of County Durham outside Sunderland and this wasnít really given any coverage at all. The passion they have for the club came across well though.

    Series two should be an interesting contrast.
    Why should he have cancelled his contract? Sunderland gave him the contract so they rightly should honour it, yes it's a lot of money but you can't blame the player in my opinion, if this was you and you were given a contract would you say, aye fire in cancel my contract so I have no money coming in, highly doubt it

  13. #72
    Grabban's attitude though??😮.I also think bain was a decent guy trying hard for them,but it all came across a bit amateurish the transfer side of it and scouting.they had ibra on there target list!!😂.

  14. #73
    @hibs.net private member Bishop Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allant1981 View Post
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    Why should he have cancelled his contract? Sunderland gave him the contract so they rightly should honour it, yes it's a lot of money but you can't blame the player in my opinion, if this was you and you were given a contract would you say, aye fire in cancel my contract so I have no money coming in, highly doubt it
    He would have got another club no bother. He was within his rights to stay but he hardly took the moral high ground bleeding the club dry.
    "Washing one's hands of the conflict between the powerful and the powerless means to side with the powerful, not to be neutral.' - Paulo Freire

  15. #74
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee View Post
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    He would have got another club no bother. He was within his rights to stay but he hardly took the moral high ground bleeding the club dry.
    At the same wages though?

    Probably not and it would have probably been at a significant reduction. Even a £5k a week reduction is a massive hit over a 2 year contract that I think he has left, if he was to lose £10-20k a week which is entirely possible then I can quite understand why he felt he had no choice but to sit tight.

  16. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Bishop Hibee View Post
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    He would have got another club no bother. He was within his rights to stay but he hardly took the moral high ground bleeding the club dry.
    At 70k per week, I highly doubt it, again would you go from earning that to zero per week?

  17. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyrougier123 View Post
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    Grabban's attitude though??😮.I also think bain was a decent guy trying hard for them,but it all came across a bit amateurish the transfer side of it and scouting.they had ibra on there target list!!😂.
    Bain I thought was trying to do a very difficult job that, at points, seemed like only he knew how bad it was. The transfer bit was an example, they were looking at players they had no chance of getting and/or completely out of the budget after the relegation.

    Rodwell came across as a Dick but not his fault he had that contract and the club couldn't pay him off.

  18. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    At the same wages though?

    Probably not and it would have probably been at a significant reduction. Even a £5k a week reduction is a massive hit over a 2 year contract that I think he has left, if he was to lose £10-20k a week which is entirely possible then I can quite understand why he felt he had no choice but to sit tight.
    I get what you are saying but at the same time Bain did say he had asked him outright whether he wanted to play football or whether it was about money. He said Rodwell had said it was about playing football then 3 days later he refused to cancel the contract......

    It seems Sunderland were able to tear up his contract after relegation anyway so it would surely have made some senss to plan ahead and make the move to potentially help both parties. Whilst I'm sure Blackburn pay well he won't be on £70K now so he really only delayed the inevitable for 4 months pay.
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  19. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Whilst I'm sure Blackburn pay well he won't be on £70K now so he really only delayed the inevitable for 4 months pay.
    Or £1.2 Million ish!. That is a big wedge in the division Sunderland are in and is a big amount even offsetting his Blackburn wage for Rodwell. The contract was always going to win out for the player and it was very poor not to include a relegation clause for a club like Sunderland who flirted with the drop so often.

  20. #79
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    I binged watched this last week.

    The staff behind the scenes really are unsung heroes. They had a real passion for their club and city and did an admirable job with such an uncertain future hanging over them.

    I didn't hate Martin Bain. He just came across as one of those corporate types that leave you scratching your head as to how they got as far as they did in business. The gift of the gab I suppose.

    I really liked George Honeyman. He showed real passion and you could see what it meant to him to be playing for his club. His 'if I can't be better at least I'll be fitter' attitude was superb and he was the one player that showed real emotion throughout. It hurt him. I'm glad he's doing well this season in a team that is looking good for at least the play offs. He deserves it.

    Off the 2 managers I felt a bit sorry for Grayson. As soon as the deal for McCormack fell through you knew he was doomed. Chris Coleman didn't sit right with me at all. He kept going on about how passionate he was and how he loved a challenge but beyond his playing to the crowd on the park I just felt he needed a rocket up his erse most of the time. Despite his words to the contrary it seemed he gave up and the players followed suit. Aiden McGeady was absolutely scathing about him after the Millwall draw whe he said they played a formation they had never used before and he never had a clue where he was meant to be playing or what his role was. He also said he was used to managers who were passionate and used to work training around solving problems they had identified . He said Coleman had them watch a video, talk for a few minutes then it was back to laughing and joking on the training pitch. It's easy to see why his club management career is bang average at best.

    One interesting thing I found out from a Sunderland forum is one of the companies involved in making the show was also in negotiations to buy the club at the time so that may present some things in a different light.

    Overall I enjoyed it and it will be interesting to see how things have changed in a 2nd series.
    The one I liked was Johnny Williams. Very Lewis Stevenson-like in his shy, calm demeanour and just came across really well. A very good player too.

    The thing about these kind of documentaries is they really get you to feel like you know the player. Williams was let go by Palace reluctantly and has now gone to Charlton, currently battling it out with Sunderland at the top of the third division (yep I'm still calling it that, sue me). I'll be keeping an eye on how he gets on.

  21. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by wookie70 View Post
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    Or £1.2 Million ish!. That is a big wedge in the division Sunderland are in and is a big amount even offsetting his Blackburn wage for Rodwell. The contract was always going to win out for the player and it was very poor not to include a relegation clause for a club like Sunderland who flirted with the drop so often.
    He collected wages of over £10M in his time at Sunderland (or almost £150K for each of the 67 games he played). That's before his 7 years at Everton and Man City are take into account. Players on far, far less have taken comparatively bigger hits to help clubs in need in the past.

    I absolutely get he had a contract and it was Sunderlands **** up. On the flip side a wage drop was inevitable anyway and ultimately had he made a move 6 months earlier his lifestyle would have remained relatively unchanged.
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  22. #81
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    The one I liked was Johnny Williams. Very Lewis Stevenson-like in his shy, calm demeanour and just came across really well. A very good player too.

    The thing about these kind of documentaries is they really get you to feel like you know the player. Williams was let go by Palace reluctantly and has now gone to Charlton, currently battling it out with Sunderland at the top of the third division (yep I'm still calling it that, sue me). I'll be keeping an eye on how he gets on.
    Seemed very unlike a footballer.

    Thought it was a wee bit awkward when he was saying his goodbyes and one of the other players didnít seem to know or care it was his last day. Strikes me as someone that maybe doesnít fit in as a typical footballer.

    I agree he came across really well though.

  23. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    The one I liked was Johnny Williams. Very Lewis Stevenson-like in his shy, calm demeanour and just came across really well. A very good player too.

    The thing about these kind of documentaries is they really get you to feel like you know the player. Williams was let go by Palace reluctantly and has now gone to Charlton, currently battling it out with Sunderland at the top of the third division (yep I'm still calling it that, sue me). I'll be keeping an eye on how he gets on.
    Yep I liked him too.

    He seemed almost verging on a loner at times. I found it quite hard to watch when he spoke about living on his own and having no one to talk too. You can see whe he sought help with his confidence issues.
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  24. #83
    Shambles of a club. Seem to be making hard work of the English League One now too. Makes you wonder why McGeough went there. No real sympathy for them. The only two times I've encountered their support at Easter Road they were grade A roasters.

  25. #84
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    Yep I liked him too.

    He seemed almost verging on a loner at times. I found it quite hard to watch when he spoke about living on his own and having no one to talk too. You can see whe he sought help with his confidence issues.
    Hopefully he's in a better place now. Played the full 90 today in a 3-0 away win.

  26. #85
    Coaching Staff Jones28's Avatar
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    It was a great series, and the theme song was harrowing! A really good listen - Shipyards by the Lake Poets.

    I'm sure we played them at ER just before the Celtic game that year. Hopefully they keep making the series and we get a glimpse of DM. Watching it you wonder how the hell they managed to persuade players to go.

  27. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jones28 View Post
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    It was a great series, and the theme song was harrowing! A really good listen - Shipyards by the Lake Poets.

    I'm sure we played them at ER just before the Celtic game that year. Hopefully they keep making the series and we get a glimpse of DM. Watching it you wonder how the hell they managed to persuade players to go.
    I donít enjoy seeing Celtic win but I did have a wry smile that they thought they could beat the champions of Scotland by 3 or 4 to boost their confidence.. only to get their ***** handed to them 5 or 6-0 at home.

  28. #87
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jones28 View Post
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    It was a great series, and the theme song was harrowing! A really good listen - Shipyards by the Lake Poets.

    I'm sure we played them at ER just before the Celtic game that year. Hopefully they keep making the series and we get a glimpse of DM. Watching it you wonder how the hell they managed to persuade players to go.
    Really hope thereís a second series as Iíd love to see how Jack Ross comes across.

    In saying that though, if I was Jack Ross Iíd insist on the cameras ****ing right off. Itís a hard enough job as it is without cameras following you and the players around.

  29. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    Really hope thereís a second series as Iíd love to see how Jack Ross comes across.

    In saying that though, if I was Jack Ross Iíd insist on the cameras ****ing right off. Itís a hard enough job as it is without cameras following you and the players around.
    I have to admit jack ross is a guy I really like in football just now,the job he is doing considering the state of sunderland just now is steady, and thats what they will need to weather the storm.it goes to show how much of a bubble the premier leauge is,and when you go down you really do have a fall from grace,some very big teams struggling just now.back to JR just hope he stops competing with us on the transfer front at times.

  30. #89
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tonyrougier123 View Post
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    I have to admit jack ross is a guy I really like in football just now,the job he is doing considering the state of sunderland just now is steady, and thats what they will need to weather the storm.it goes to show how much of a bubble the premier leauge is,and when you go down you really do have a fall from grace,some very big teams struggling just now.back to JR just hope he stops competing with us on the transfer front at times.
    He's also said he wants to be Scotland manager one day.

  31. #90
    Looked to be an absolute shambles.

    Never been too bothered about Sunderland as a club but while they have a Hibs Scottish Cup winning legend playing for them, Iíll be looking out for their results and wish them all the best.

    Same goes for Aston Villa at the moment.

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