Whatever happened to Total Football?

[LustForLeith]

I’ve not long finished reading ‘78 - How A Nation Lost A World Cup’ about Scotland’s failed campaign in Argentina (great book by the way - cheers to those who recommended)

In it there’s references to the Dutch playing Total Football and it got me thinking, whatever happened to that style of play? For those that remember it, what’s the closest to a team nowadays who play like that? As far as I can tell part of it was every outfield player could play in any position but I might be wrong.

Anyway, great book!

[Weegreenman]

Gotta be Barcelona or Manchester City. Paris SG.

[Iggy Pope]

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Gotta be Barcelona or Manchester City. Paris SG.

Neymar, Messi or Augero at Centre Half?

[Keith_M]

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...... part of it was every outfield player could play in any position

Neil Lennon must have read that book before picking his team to play Killie...

[LustForLeith]

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Neymar, Messi or Augero at Centre Half?

Was it as effective as that?

From what I can make of it PSG May be the closest to it. Hi was wondering why more teams didn’t try it

[Iggy Pope]

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Was it as effective as that?

From what I can make of it PSG May be the closest to it. Hi was wondering why more teams didn’t try it

Not a chance. ‘Total football’ might have been a philosophy, but more like what we’d call today a sound byte. Even the Dutch had camels carrying water and would never have deployed the likes of Cruyff to do anything other than the things he was brilliant at.
They may have had defenders that were great footballers but they wouldn’t have stuck Rene van De Kerkhof in a back three.

[Billy Whizz]

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Not a chance. ‘Total football’ might have been a philosophy, but more like what we’d call today a sound byte. Even the Dutch had camels carrying water and would never have deployed the likes of Cruyff to do anything other than the things he was brilliant at.
They may have had defenders that were great footballers but they wouldn’t have stuck Rene van De Kerkhof in a back three.

That was a fantastic team to watch IP. 1974 and 78 world cups, so unlucky not to win at least one of them. Lost both finals to the the Host Nation, absolutely brutal for them

[LustForLeith]

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That was a fantastic team to watch IP. 1974 and 78 world cups, so unlucky not to win at least one of them. Lost both finals to the the Host Nation, absolutely brutal for them

What was the story about Cruyff not playing 78? I’m sure I heard a story that he had received death threats and didn’t want to play?

[SirDavidsNapper]

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I’ve not long finished reading ‘78 - How A Nation Lost A World Cup’ about Scotland’s failed campaign in Argentina (great book by the way - cheers to those who recommended)

In it there’s references to the Dutch playing Total Football and it got me thinking, whatever happened to that style of play? For those that remember it, what’s the closest to a team nowadays who play like that? As far as I can tell part of it was every outfield player could play in any position but I might be wrong.

Anyway, great book!

Died out around the same time Hearts offside trap stopped being fasionable

[Billy Whizz]

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What was the story about Cruyff not playing 78? I’m sure I heard a story that he had received death threats and didn’t want to play?

I’d forgotten about that, think it was something to do with a kidnapping threat to his family

[Sammy7nil]

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That was a fantastic team to watch IP. 1974 and 78 world cups, so unlucky not to win at least one of them. Lost both finals to the the Host Nation, absolutely brutal for them

Yip and Scotland out played them and deserved to beat them although Holland did ease off after they got back to 3-2 at 3-1 for five minutes we all thought it was on

[Iggy Pope]

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That was a fantastic team to watch IP. 1974 and 78 world cups, so unlucky not to win at least one of them. Lost both finals to the the Host Nation, absolutely brutal for them

I rememember fragments of Mexico 70 but Munich 74 was the first World Cup I really understood. Everyone wanted to be Cruyff or Neeskens and it seemed unjust they never won it. Muller, Breitner, Netzer and Overath on the other hand were no less iconic, followed 4 years later by Ardiles, Bertoni, Luque and Kempes. Sticker book frenzy.

[heidtheba]

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I’d forgotten about that, think it was something to do with a kidnapping threat to his family

https://www.theguardian.com/football...sstory.sport15

[Hi Heid Yin]

Barcelona's tika taka football of a few years ago was maybe the closest I've seen to Holland's "total football", with every player being totally comfortable with the ball and possessing great technique.

I recall the Dutch kicking themselves for being "over-confident" against the Germans in that 1974 world cup final - there were passages of play where the Dutch were literally "taking the mick" out of the Germans who could not get near the ball. There is a real "hatred" and bitter rivalry between those 2 nations.

I remember rooting for the dutch in that final and also for them in the 1978 final, and felt so disappointed to see them come away with runners up on both occasions.

[jacomo]

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I’ve not long finished reading ‘78 - How A Nation Lost A World Cup’ about Scotland’s failed campaign in Argentina (great book by the way - cheers to those who recommended)

In it there’s references to the Dutch playing Total Football and it got me thinking, whatever happened to that style of play? For those that remember it, what’s the closest to a team nowadays who play like that? As far as I can tell part of it was every outfield player could play in any position but I might be wrong.

Anyway, great book!

Over time successful football strategies get widely adopted and then opponents find a way to counter them.

‘Total football’ as a phrase has died out but its concepts are all-pervading in elite football - ‘inverted’ wingers, ‘false’ nines, ball-playing Centre backs etc.

Much the same way that tiki taka isn’t in use as a phrase any more but lots of teams play it out from the back and employ a high press - the two key tenets of the system.

[hibbydog]

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Over time successful football strategies get widely adopted and then opponents find a way to counter them.

‘Total football’ as a phrase has died out but its concepts are all-pervading in elite football - ‘inverted’ wingers, ‘false’ nines, ball-playing Centre backs etc.

Much the same way that tiki taka isn’t in use as a phrase any more but lots of teams play it out from the back and employ a high press - the two key tenets of the system.

Can someone explain what a ‘false nine’ is? It sometimes feels like a phrase
Made up by the over analytical Bell ends on sky sports.

If I used that phrase in footy related conversation I might sound knowledgeable. Or like one of the afore mentioned bell ends.

🤓

[jacomo]

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Can someone explain what a ‘false nine’ is? It sometimes feels like a phrase
Made up by the over analytical Bell ends on sky sports.

If I used that phrase in footy related conversation I might sound knowledgeable. Or like one of the afore mentioned bell ends.

🤓

It’s the guy who’s nominally the centre forward but drops deep to try and assist runners going beyond him.

Firmino plays like this.

[hibbydog]

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It’s the guy who’s nominally the centre forward but drops deep to try and assist runners going beyond him.

Firmino plays like this.

Thanks for the reply.

Is the term ‘false nine’ acceptable in normal
Conversation?

[overdrive]

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It’s the guy who’s nominally the centre forward but drops deep to try and assist runners going beyond him.

Firmino plays like this.

Going by that definition, Harry Kane would be a false 9 then as whenever I watch him he’s on the half way line, behind play, almost falling over his own feet

[BILLYHIBS]

Brilliant book and BBC Scotland Documentary.
Reflects not so much on the admirable total football of the brilliant Dutch side but the reasons behind Scotland’s ill fated World Cup campaign
From the send off at Hampden Ally Macleod said we would definitely come back with a medal if not the actual trophy itself. Whipping the nation into a World Cup fever frenzy The arguments over bonuses playing players out of form The Willie Johnston affair not having South American Champions Peru watched Taking Iran for granted.The counter effect Ally Macleods personality had on the squad and how the whole experience affected him and his family The problems with accommodation boredom isolation security internal politics dealing with the press and the blazers from the SFA and insights from the fans
Well worth a read

[SirDavidsNapper]

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Brilliant book and BBC Scotland Documentary.
Reflects not so much on the admirable total football of the brilliant Dutch side but the reasons behind Scotland’s ill fated World Cup campaign
From the send off at Hampden Ally Macleod said we would definitely come back with a medal if not the actual trophy itself. Whipping the nation into a World Cup fever frenzy The arguments over bonuses playing players out of form The Willie Johnston affair not having South American Champions Peru watched Taking Iran for granted.The counter effect Ally Macleods personality had on the squad and how the whole experience affected him and his family The problems with accommodation boredom isolation security internal politics dealing with the press and the blazers from the SFA and insights from the fans
Well worth a read

I wasn't even born then but the win over that great Dutch side showed how good that Scotland team really was. Definitely a golden opportunity missed. Think Ally Macleod knew how good we were too but he really should have played it down. I've got memories of that World Cup i never had. Feel for the fans that went out there and the ones excitedly watching it back home. Must have been gutting.

[Groathillgrump]

This is the best book I've read about Dutch football and you can pick up a used copy of it for as little as a penny plus postage on Amazon.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0085UP9...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

In Brilliant Orange--the neurotic genius of Dutch football, journalist David Winner explores his personal fascination with the land that gave the world Van Gogh, Rembrandt and Johan Cruyff--searching for reasons why such a tiny country has produced some of football's most intelligent, enigmatic and unfulfilled teams.


Winner talks with the players, past and present--including Johnny Rep and Ruud Krol from the losing World Cup Final sides of 1974 and 1978--uncovering their personal experience of the public triumphs and disasters. But it is the breadth of his enquiry into what it may mean to be Dutch--reconciling a colonial past with a multi-cultural present; living with the memories of wartime occupation and collaboration; the tensions between a fiercely individualistic, libertarian spirit and the principles of communality--that makes this such an extraordinary and wonderful book. --Alex Hankin

[Pagan Hibernia]

The ‘74 Dutch team were just a knock off imitation of Turnbulls Tornadoes!

Seriously, what a side they were. They were much better in 74 than in 78. There’s youtube videos of them destroying Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil before their cocky swagger backfired against a pragmatic German side. Iconic team.

[BILLYHIBS]

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The ‘74 Dutch team were just a knock off imitation of Turnbulls Tornadoes!

Seriously, what a side they were. They were much better in 74 than in 78. There’s youtube videos of them destroying Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil before their cocky swagger backfired against a pragmatic German side. Iconic team.

Agree their downfall was scoring a penalty early against the West Germans in the 1974 World Cup Final their game plan seemed to go out the window and put them off their stride and the Germans ground them down.

They would not get their revenge on the Germans until the 1988 European Championships held in Germany

[Sammy7nil]

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Thanks for the reply.

Is the term ‘false nine’ acceptable in normal
Conversation?

Sorry it is not acceptable in any conversation.

[jacomo]

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Thanks for the reply.

Is the term ‘false nine’ acceptable in normal
Conversation?

Er no probably not!

But then other terms I rarely use in normal conversation are ‘flat back four’ , ‘thermal efficiency’ and ‘transmission housing’.

All have their appropriate uses in context though.

[Speedy]

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Er no probably not!

But then other terms I rarely use in normal conversation are ‘flat back four’ , ‘thermal efficiency’ and ‘transmission housing’.

All have their appropriate uses in context though.

Is that what Hearts use to keep snow off the ball when it is 'passed' from the defence?

[snedzuk]

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Thanks for the reply.

Is the term ‘false nine’ acceptable in normal
Conversation?

In Scottish football a false nine is a big hairy arsed number six clogger who has fallen over.

[jacomo]

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Is that what Hearts use to keep snow off the ball when it is 'passed' from the defence?

Quite possibly.

There are many words and phrases that adopt a different meaning when used by Hearts, such as ‘financially self-sufficient’ and ‘famous’.

[LustForLeith]

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The ‘74 Dutch team were just a knock off imitation of Turnbulls Tornadoes!

Seriously, what a side they were. They were much better in 74 than in 78. There’s youtube videos of them destroying Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil before their cocky swagger backfired against a pragmatic German side. Iconic team.

Didn’t they score a goal in the World Cup final without the Germans touching the ball? Then it all went a bit wrong!