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  1. #121
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Newry Hibs View Post
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    No one has said that. Sure we will still trade with the eu and vice versa. People will still move there and vice versa. I'm sure people will still get sunburnt in Spain and rained on in Edinburgh.

    It's how we deal with the eu that is to change.
    What you're describing though, requires negotiations and deals. We can't just tell the EU that we don't want anything to do with their own rules, but still wish to travel back and forth freely. It's completely unrealistic.

    Quote Originally Posted by beensaidbefore View Post
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    To leave their control, rules, influence. Whatever you may want to call it, and to make decisions for the benefit of our country first and foremost. That perhaps means competing for resources/contracts/workforce but we will make decisions about our own needs and direction.

    If that means we openly invite half of Europe back then so be it, but it would be our decision. Key to it all, is the ability to look at our island and say what do wee need without worrying about folk in Greece or Germany.
    It wouldn't be "our" decision. It would be the UK Governments decisions, decisions that Scotland is at odds with, more often than not. You seem to be under the impression that the EU has far more control over the UK than it actually does though. It's influences over the UK pale in comparison to the UK's influences over Scotland.


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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibbyradge View Post
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    2 out of 50 is 4%. It only needs 2% of leave voters to change their mind.

    Or have I missed the point completely?
    I’ve failed to explain myself, again. Suffice to say the swing needed is tiny.

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by makaveli1875 View Post
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    And if your switch doesn't happen then what? More greeting and another referendum
    Then we are well and truly ****ed esp if no deal is on the ballot.

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    The thing is though that the UK doesn't have the negotiating power of the EU due to much smaller size, so to get better deals than the EU can manage we'd have to undercut them on regulations (food standards, environmental protection, workers' rights etc). It's a right wing fantasy and might make the country richer in the long term but it would be de'il tak the hindmost.

    I understand your point, but don't think it's quite as cut and dry as that. Should we have the right to decide the direction of the country, independent of a central government elsewhere, I believe so. With that comes some pros and cons. I'm not for a moment suggestion it's all go a be rosey, but as iv said, neither is the status quo.

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    What you're describing though, requires negotiations and deals. We can't just tell the EU that we don't want anything to do with their own rules, but still wish to travel back and forth freely. It's completely unrealistic.



    It wouldn't be "our" decision. It would be the UK Governments decisions, decisions that Scotland is at odds with, more often than not. You seem to be under the impression that the EU has far more control over the UK than it actually does though. It's influences over the UK pale in comparison to the UK's influences over Scotland.

    I belive Scotland is in line for more powers once the dust settles. Gotta live in hope🤞🤞

  7. #126
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hackett View Post
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    Thick as pig*****... and he's not alone.



    ... Salt of the earth though. Knows what's what
    So this genius in Barnsley voted for Brexit in order to stop immigration. He then says freedom of movement of EU citizens is 'fair enough', though that's exactly what Brexit will prevent. In fact we will need more immigration from outside the EU post-Brexit. I believe this is what is termed 'cognitive dissonance'.
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  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    The thing is though that the UK doesn't have the negotiating power of the EU due to much smaller size, so to get better deals than the EU can manage we'd have to undercut them on regulations (food standards, environmental protection, workers' rights etc). It's a right wing fantasy and might make the country richer in the long term but it would be de'il tak the hindmost.
    Possibly.

    But then any deal made under the EU needs to factor in huge influence from Europes heavyweights and their vested interests.

    Striking deals without having to appease French farmers or Germany’s heavy industry may lead to better, more tailored deals for the UK.

    A good deal by its nature is a win win deal. That could easily be seen to be delivered by providing higher, better or more agile goods or services.

    In the days before the CE mark you had British Standards these were not always the lowest and were in some cases superior to standards in other countries. Absolutely no reason why they couldn’t be so again.

    So while your statement could be true I’d suggest your presumption that the only way we could outperform a EU brokered deal by undercutting is exactly that, a presumption.

    Oh and one final (lengthy! ) point it’s no fantasy (right wing or not) to imagine better and more effective regulation rather than the likes of the sprawling Mifid II that took billions of pounds to implement years late because it took so long for those regulating to decipher their own regulations. Or the ridiculously complex GDPR or the proposed copyright laws etc. etc.

    So while their is no guarantee a UK government (elected of course by its own citizens on the relevant manifesto) would actually manage to do so there is also no guarantee that it won’t and a reasonable likelihood that in some cases (see above) that it actually would.

  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Possibly.

    But then any deal made under the EU needs to factor in huge influence from Europes heavyweights and their vested interests.

    Striking deals without having to appease French farmers or Germany’s heavy industry may lead to better, more tailored deals for the UK.

    A good deal by its nature is a win win deal. That could easily be seen to be delivered by providing higher, better or more agile goods or services.

    In the days before the CE mark you had British Standards these were not always the lowest and were in some cases superior to standards in other countries. Absolutely no reason why they couldn’t be so again.

    So while your statement could be true I’d suggest your presumption that the only way we could outperform a EU brokered deal by undercutting is exactly that, a presumption.

    Oh and one final (lengthy! ) point it’s no fantasy (right wing or not) to imagine better and more effective regulation rather than the likes of the sprawling Mifid II that took billions of pounds to implement years late because it took so long for those regulating to decipher their own regulations. Or the ridiculously complex GDPR or the proposed copyright laws etc. etc.

    So while their is no guarantee a UK government (elected of course by its own citizens on the relevant manifesto) would actually manage to do so there is also no guarantee that it won’t and a reasonable likelihood that in some cases (see above) that it actually would.
    Well it’s pretty much moot anyway since apart from the WTO nutters, any Tory or Lab deal would effectively tie us to eu regs. I was trying to imagine a scenario where the UK could prosper and that’s all I could come up with. The reality if it goes ahead is damage limitation.

  10. #129
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beensaidbefore View Post
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    I belive Scotland is in line for more powers once the dust settles. Gotta live in hope🤞🤞
    You do realize the Scottish Parliament and devolution occured under pressure from the EU, as opposed to the will of the UK Government? What do you think they're going to gradually do over the coming decades in regards to Scottish devolution?

    I'll tell you what they'll do. Piece by piece, they'll take back more and more control.

  11. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    You do realize the Scottish Parliament and devolution occured under pressure from the EU, as opposed to the will of the UK Government? What do you think they're going to gradually do over the coming decades in regards to Scottish devolution?

    I'll tell you what they'll do. Piece by piece, they'll take back more and more control.
    Who’s they? The ‘ever closer union’ EU?

  12. #131
    @hibs.net private member Callum_62's Avatar
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    Seeing as it was established by EU pressure to the UK Gov, I highly doubt the EU will be the one shutting it down

    The whole union argument is mute now

    We explicitly seen how one union (EU) treated one of its smaller members in direct contrast to the UK

    I know what I would prefer to be part of


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  13. #132
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    Who’s they? The ‘ever closer union’ EU?
    As i've pointed out already, the EU's influence over it's member states is nowhere close to the level that the UK holds over Scotland. If it wasn't for the EU, "Scotland" wouldn't even be recognized on the map anymore.

  14. #133
    ADMIN marinello59's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    You do realize the Scottish Parliament and devolution occured under pressure from the EU, as opposed to the will of the UK Government? What do you think they're going to gradually do over the coming decades in regards to Scottish devolution?

    I'll tell you what they'll do. Piece by piece, they'll take back more and more control.
    Go on then. Explain how the EU brought about the Scottish Parliament. Use facts though.
    Don’t forget to mention the years of hard work done by the cross party Scottish Constitutional Convention or the fact that it was one of the priorities of the first term of Blair’s Labour Government. ( They weren’t all bad. )
    Donald Dewar , Secretary of State for Scotland on launching the Scotland Act. “There shall be a Scottish Parliament. I like that.” Looks like the will of at least one member of the UK Government.
    Every gimmick hungry yob,
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  15. #134
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    Tommy Robinson's secret funding

    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    As i've pointed out already, the EU's influence over it's member states is nowhere close to the level that the UK holds over Scotland. If it wasn't for the EU, "Scotland" wouldn't even be recognized on the map anymore.
    Sure. The EU saved Scotland for being wiped off the map. What a load of bollocks.

    Edit: And you never answered the question. Who are the ‘they’ you were referring to?
    Last edited by RyeSloan; Yesterday at 09:02 AM.

  16. #135
    @hibs.net private member Jack Hackett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    I’ve failed to explain myself, again. Suffice to say the swing needed is tiny.
    Swing aside, there are approximately 1.5m new voters since the referendum, added to the age group who voted overwhelmingly in favour of remain. Take away the elderly who have since left us for pastures new, an age group who voted overwhelmingly in favour of leave, and you can understand the reluctance of the leavers for another vote.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...and-gender-uk/
    Last edited by Jack Hackett; Yesterday at 06:34 PM.

  17. #136
    Coaching Staff HUTCHYHIBBY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hackett View Post
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    Swing aside, there are approximately 1.5m new voters since the referendum, added to the age group who voted overwhelmingly in favour of remain. Take away the elderly who have since left us for pastures new, an age group who voted overwhelmingly in favour of leave, and you can understand the reluctance of the leavers for another vote.
    Gawn the young team! 😉

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