In Neil Lennon we trust

[Hibeesmad]

Got us promoted to the Premiership at the first time of asking.
Got us to two semi-final’s and gave us one of our main ambitions of playing European football after one season in the premiership.
Got the team playing the best football we have seen in decades.
Only 2 defeats in 8 derby matches. Unbeaten at home.
Unbeaten at Ibrox.

We’ve dropped a lot of points in the last 6 games but Saturday is a new start. I started a thread before the Dundee game saying the next 4 games are vital otherwise we are in trouble. We have taken 1 point out of a possible 9 so far out of those 4 games. But I have faith this man is going to turn this around.

In Lennon we trust.

[BegbieHSC]

Hear ****ing hear

[21.05.2016]

I agree, that for now at least, Lennon is still the man for the job. However, he can't live off past acomplishments, thats all very well and good but it's what he can do NOW that matters. ATM the team is performing well below par and we are struggling against teams we really should be comfortably beating, especially at home!

I stand by him now but things need to change and FAST or we are in danger of undoing all the progress we've made in the last 4 years and finding ourselves back to being a mediocre bottom 6 team.

[Hi Heid Yin]

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I agree, that for now at least, Lennon is still the man for the job. However, he can't live off past acomplishments, thats all very well and good but it's what he can do NOW that matters. ATM the team is performing well below par and we are struggling against teams we really should be comfortably beating, especially at home!

I stand by him now but things need to change and FAST or we are in danger of undoing all the progress we've made in the last 4 years and finding ourselves back to being a mediocre bottom 6 team.

I totally agree that he can't live off past accomplishments, and I too as one of his staunchest admirers have limited patience.

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt based mostly on what he has done for our club these past 2 glorious seasons and how he rescued and revived our season by his transfer dealings in the last January transfer window and by the exhilarating football he had us playing.

I just feel that there are some posters attacking our manager prematurely, with some unbalanced and/or exaggerated accusations - in some cases deliberately overlooking the aforementioned.

For me, sacking Neil Lennon at this stage would be utter folly and set us back big time and risk a definite bottom 6 finish.

[The 90+2]

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I totally agree that he can't live off past accomplishments, and I too as one of his staunchest admirers have limited patience.

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt based mostly on what he has done for our club these past 2 glorious seasons and how he rescued and revived our season by his transfer dealings in the last January transfer window and by the exhilarating football he had us playing.

I just feel that there are some posters attacking our manager prematurely, with some unbalanced and/or exaggerated accusations - in some cases deliberately overlooking the aforementioned.

For me, sacking Neil Lennon at this stage would be utter folly and set us back big time and risk a definite bottom 6 finish.

Can I ask when does premature become ok? Because right now in the present it’s an absolute shambles from game to game since October and by that, since October it’s got more and more of a shambles with every game.

[madhatter]

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I totally agree that he can't live off past accomplishments, and I too as one of his staunchest admirers have limited patience.

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt based mostly on what he has done for our club these past 2 glorious seasons and how he rescued and revived our season by his transfer dealings in the last January transfer window and by the exhilarating football he had us playing.

I just feel that there are some posters attacking our manager prematurely, with some unbalanced and/or exaggerated accusations - in some cases deliberately overlooking the aforementioned.

For me, sacking Neil Lennon at this stage would be utter folly and set us back big time and risk a definite bottom 6 finish.

When would sacking Neil Lennon make sense? Relegation battle? Current form and team attitude suggests we’ll be hoping Dundee and St Mirren start to struggle big time. Nothing seems right at the moment. Fans aren’t looking forward to matches as we are expecting a struggle now, Lennon isn’t doing interviews, players are visibly not doing their jobs now (Parker was right: us, the punters could see the players not doing their jobs). Everything stinks now. He deserves a chance to turn it around, of course he does but where is the line drawn?

[Hi Heid Yin]

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When would sacking Neil Lennon make sense? Relegation battle? Current form and team attitude suggests we’ll be hoping Dundee and St Mirren start to struggle big time. Nothing seems right at the moment. Fans aren’t looking forward to matches as we are expecting a struggle now, Lennon isn’t doing interviews, players are visibly not doing their jobs now (Parker was right: us, the punters could see the players not doing their jobs). Everything stinks now. He deserves a chance to turn it around, of course he does but where is the line drawn?

I would like to see him( providing he is still here and genuinely wants to be here) be given significant funds in the January window to secure "better quality" players, especially in midfield and upfront, and to be given to the end of the season with a revamped squad before his performance as manager is assessed by Leeann and co.

[Hi Heid Yin]

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Got us promoted to the Premiership at the first time of asking.
Got us to two semi-final’s and gave us one of our main ambitions of playing European football after one season in the premiership.
Got the team playing the best football we have seen in decades.
Only 2 defeats in 8 derby matches. Unbeaten at home.
Unbeaten at Ibrox.

We’ve dropped a lot of points in the last 6 games but Saturday is a new start. I started a thread before the Dundee game saying the next 4 games are vital otherwise we are in trouble. We have taken 1 point out of a possible 9 so far out of those 4 games. But I have faith this man is going to turn this around.

In Lennon we trust.

These are the facts that anti-Neil Lennon supporters choose to ignore - focusing rather on our present 7 game slump.

[madhatter]

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These are the facts that anti-Neil Lennon supporters choose to ignore - focusing rather on our present 7 game slump.

“Pro-Neil Lennon” fans choose to ignore his shambolic transfer dealings, that’s a fact as well, most of his signings have been garbage. Stubbs team got us promoted. In seriousness, why not just state your support without labelling other fans.

The gulf between resources when we got promoted...not being funny but I’d expect a seasoned Football Manager player to have been able to get us promoted. Some of the teams we were playing had average attendances of 1-2k...

Quality over quantity has ended up being small levels of dross. Most of our best starting line up is still Stubbs based. We seem to be playing Kamberi, MacLaren, Boyle and Horgan because we simply don’t have other players. Hence why we are also starting Shaw.

[Hi Heid Yin]

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“Pro-Neil Lennon” fans choose to ignore his shambolic transfer dealings, that’s a fact as well, most of his signings have been garbage. Stubbs team got us promoted. In seriousness, why not just state your support without labelling other fans.

The gulf between resources when we got promoted...not being funny but I’d expect a seasoned Football Manager player to have been able to get us promoted. Some of the teams we were playing had average attendances of 1-2k...

Quality over quantity has ended up being small levels of dross. Most of our best starting line up is still Stubbs based. We seem to be playing Kamberi, MacLaren, Boyle and Horgan because we simply don’t have other players. Hence why we are also starting Shaw.

1. I don't ignore Neil's transfer dealings.
Check my postings you will in fact see me questioning some of his signings: ie Mavrias, Horgan, Nelom, Hyndeman and Agyepong

2. Stubbsy, as much as I love him, failed to take us up against mostly the same "diddy" teams, but, yes, he had an eye for a player and left a wonderful legacy for Neil Lennon.
This said, Neil Lennon managed to achieve something Stubbys couldn't - promotion as champions. Neil Lennon also managed to put Dundee United (our main championship challengers) in our back pocket and clinch promotion with room to spare. Stubbsy on the other hand could not overcome Houston's Falkirk of all clubs!

3. I do believe in quality over quantity, but we were never going to replace McGinn and McGeouch in the summer transfer window. Mallan is a quality signing (16 goals and/or assists) whose confidence and performance is suffering like a lot of his team mates at present. Don't forget that we had to drop McGinn through burn-out and indifferent performances at one time. So even the best can appear "average".

[calumhibee1]

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1. I don't ignore Neil's transfer dealings.
Check my postings you will in fact see me questioning some of his signings: ie Mavrias, Horgan, Nelom, Hyndeman and Agyepong

2. Stubbsy, as much as I love him, failed 3 times to take us up against mostly the same "diddy" teams, but, yes, he had an eye for a player and left a wonderful legacy for Neil Lennon.
This said, Neil Lennon managed to achieve something Stubbys couldn't - promotion as champions. Neil Lennon also managed to put Dundee United (our main championship challengers) in our back pocket and clinch promotion with room to spare. Stubbsy on the other hand could not overcome Houston's Falkirk of all clubs!

3. I do believe in quality over quantity, but we were never going to replace McGinn and McGeouch in the summer transfer window. Mallan is a quality signing (16 goals and/or assists) whose confidence and performance is suffering like a lot of his team mates at present. Don't forget that we had to drop McGinn through burn-out and indifferent performances at one time. So even the best can appear "average".

Point 2 - Stubbs failed twice, not three times. Nobody would have stopped Hearts in that first season including Neil Lennon. They absolutely romped to the title and we also had to compete with Rangers. Second season we were competing against a Rangers team with a much higher budget than us. He also had to deal with two runs to cup finals with the Scottish Cup run including two replays for good measure. Impossible to say but it's most likely that we wouldn't have won the league that season had Lennon been in charge either purely due to the fact Rangers had a budget probably around 5 times bigger than ours. Lennon, to his credit, won the league when he was placed against teams on probably half our budget or less. A much easier scenario than the one Stubbs was tasked with.

[BILLYHIBS]

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Point 2 - Stubbs failed twice, not three times. Nobody would have stopped Hearts in that first season including Neil Lennon. They absolutely romped to the title and we also had to compete with Rangers. Second season we were competing against a Rangers team with a much higher budget than us. He also had to deal with two runs to cup finals with the Scottish Cup run including two replays for good measure. Impossible to say but it's most likely that we wouldn't have won the league that season had Lennon been in charge either purely due to the fact Rangers had a budget probably around 5 times bigger than ours. Lennon, to his credit, won the league when he was placed against teams on probably half our budget or less. A much easier scenario than the one Stubbs was tasked with.

Good night Callum ! You are starting to give me and everyone on here a Sair heid Tomorrow is another day! 😁

[Hi Heid Yin]

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Point 2 - Stubbs failed twice, not three times. Nobody would have stopped Hearts in that first season including Neil Lennon. They absolutely romped to the title and we also had to compete with Rangers. Second season we were competing against a Rangers team with a much higher budget than us. He also had to deal with two runs to cup finals with the Scottish Cup run including two replays for good measure. Impossible to say but it's most likely that we wouldn't have won the league that season had Lennon been in charge either purely due to the fact Rangers had a budget probably around 5 times bigger than ours. Lennon, to his credit, won the league when he was placed against teams on probably half our budget or less. A much easier scenario than the one Stubbs was tasked with.

My apologies for the "3 times" comment: now since removed.
But the point of Stubbsy not getting us promoted - especially through the play offs, still stands.
I do agree that we were up against it with both Hearts and Sevco for clinching automatic promotion, but there is no excuse for the play off defeats.

To say what Neil Lennon would have done under similar circumstances is, quite frankly, ridiculous and takes us off into the realms of mere conjecture.

[madhatter]

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1. I don't ignore Neil's transfer dealings.
Check my postings you will in fact see me questioning some of his signings: ie Mavrias, Horgan, Nelom, Hyndeman and Agyepong

2. Stubbsy, as much as I love him, failed 3 times to take us up against mostly the same "diddy" teams, but, yes, he had an eye for a player and left a wonderful legacy for Neil Lennon.
This said, Neil Lennon managed to achieve something Stubbys couldn't - promotion as champions. Neil Lennon also managed to put Dundee United (our main championship challengers) in our back pocket and clinch promotion with room to spare. Stubbsy on the other hand could not overcome Houston's Falkirk of all clubs!

3. I do believe in quality over quantity, but we were never going to replace McGinn and McGeouch in the summer transfer window. Mallan is a quality signing (16 goals and/or assists) whose confidence and performance is suffering like a lot of his team mates at present. Don't forget that we had to drop McGinn through burn-out and indifferent performances at one time. So even the best can appear "average".

You make good points, a few I could reply to with the opposing side. Only one I think that is worthwhile is: do you think Lennon and the recruitment team have done a good job replacing McGinn and McGeouch? I don’t mean in terms of quality, I’m talking balance of the midfield. Mallan is good but he is looking awful at the moment and hasn’t contributed much from open play.

We all knew we’d miss McGinns drive in midfield, out of Hyndman, Milligan, Bartley, Mallan, Slivka...which one of them could you see driving the team forward? I see them doing a lot of sideways passing and lack of movement off the ball. We can’t play 442 or anything similar as we quite simply cannot have 2 midfielders in the centre that can contribute at both ends of the pitch. Mallan is shattered at 70mins and cannot tackle, Milligan barely makes it over the half way line before he has a nose bleed.

We had to wait on 2 work permits for 1 injured player on loan, and 1 Australian international that just looks ok, not great. We then signed a lb and rb that have collectively played 3 games I think even though our club captain is essentially finished.

Reason we cannot put a settled team is because of poor recruitment.

[Hi Heid Yin]

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You make good points, a few I could reply to with the opposing side. Only one I think that is worthwhile is: do you think Lennon and the recruitment team have done a good job replacing McGinn and McGeouch? I don’t mean in terms of quality, I’m talking balance of the midfield. Mallan is good but he is looking awful at the moment and hasn’t contributed much from open play.

We all knew we’d miss McGinns drive in midfield, out of Hyndman, Milligan, Bartley, Mallan, Slivka...which one of them could you see driving the team forward? I see them doing a lot of sideways passing and lack of movement off the ball. We can’t play 442 or anything similar as we quite simply cannot have 2 midfielders in the centre that can contribute at both ends of the pitch. Mallan is shattered at 70mins and cannot tackle, Milligan barely makes it over the half way line before he has a nose bleed.

We had to wait on 2 work permits for 1 injured player on loan, and 1 Australian international that just looks ok, not great. We then signed a lb and rb that have collectively played 3 games I think even though our club captain is essentially finished.

Reason we cannot put a settled team is because of poor recruitment.

1. I am the first to concede that we have not replaced the midfield balance we had last season. Neil Lennon himself has as good as said that.

2. Unfortunately, we do not have a midfielder on our books who can, indeed, wants to "drive us forward" - thus my emphasis on Neil Lennon getting such a player (or two) in the January window

3. I have also been vocal about "poor recruitment" and have been as frustrated as anyone re signing crocks and has-beens (Whittaker) and players who can't get near the first team.

I balance this against Neil Lennon having a successful and season-changing last January transfer window - where he recruited well and got the balance right and where it all came together for us to enjoy football that was right up there along with the best some of us have witnessed in our lifetime...and I go right back to Turnbull's Tornadoes.

[Pretty Boy]

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These are the facts that anti-Neil Lennon supporters choose to ignore - focusing rather on our present 7 game slump.

How long does the slump have to continue before it becomes more relevant than what happened in bygone seasons? I'm not 'anti Neil Lennon' but I care primarily about the here and now and we are in total freefall. I could even accept results not going our way if we were playing well but we are turning in utterly woeful performances week in and week out to go along with the crap results.

The players undoubtedly need to shoulder a chunk of the blame but so does the manager. It's his team, his players, his selections and his tactics that are playing a part in the shambles this season is becoming.

[SideBurns]

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How long does the slump have to continue before it becomes more relevant than what happened in bygone seasons? I'm not 'anti Neil Lennon' but I care primarily about the here and now and we are in total freefall. I could even accept results not going our way if we were playing well but we are turning in utterly woeful performances week in and week out to go along with the crap results.

The players undoubtedly need to shoulder a chunk of the blame but so does the manager. It's his team, his players, his selections and his tactics that are playing a part in the shambles this season is becoming.

I agree. At the moment it is just a "7 game slump"; at what point does the slump become one where a change is necessary? 10? 12? Or, for some, do we just never reach that stage? I desperately hope Lennon can turn this around, starting on Saturday, but if he doesn't there is no reason why he shouldn't meet the same fate as any other manager who is unable to field a winning team.

[Hi Heid Yin]

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How long does the slump have to continue before it becomes more relevant than what happened in bygone seasons? I'm not 'anti Neil Lennon' but I care primarily about the here and now and we are in total freefall. I could even accept results not going our way if we were playing well but we are turning in utterly woeful performances week in and week out to go along with the crap results.

The players undoubtedly need to shoulder a chunk of the blame but so does the manager. It's his team, his players, his selections and his tactics that are playing a part in the shambles this season is becoming.

For me, the "slump" has gone on too long already, but I am prepared to accept a continuation (with the odd decent result/ie draws against the big guns) through the rest of December, just so long as our club gives Neil (assuming he is still here and genuinely wants to be here) significant sums to secure better quality players, maybe even a high profile signing in the January transfer window - hopefully kick-starting our season and sending us on the kind of run we all enjoyed last season.

I want to give Neil Lennon every opportunity to fix something that even his staunchest supporters can see is currently and clearly broken.

[madhatter]

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For me, the "slump" has gone on too long already, but I am prepared to accept a continuation (with the odd decent result/ie draws against the big guns) through the rest of December, just so long as our club gives Neil (assuming he is still here and genuinely wants to be here) significant sums to secure better quality players, maybe even a high profile signing in the January transfer window - hopefully kick-starting our season and sending us on the kind of run we all enjoyed last season.

I want to give Neil Lennon every opportunity to fix something that even his staunchest supporters can see is currently and clearly broken.

What if Lennon signs expensive duds? Even if they are cheap, they might get a 3 year contract and then we are stuck with them. That’s my problem, the “another transfer window to fix it” is not a model I want at Hibs. I want us to be progressing. We’ve declined massively, current football reminds me of Butcher. We are also signing the type of players I’d rather we avoid - 30+ year olds, players who have been out the game for 6months, loans that aren’t just supplementing the squad but pretty much only option we have (MacLaren).

Again, how did we sign Allan, Fyvie, McGinn and McGeouch in the Championship? Something strange about that, we signed talented young players who excelled. Now we are signing seasoned pros or rejects (as Lennon has put it).

[Hi Heid Yin]

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What if Lennon signs expensive duds? Even if they are cheap, they might get a 3 year contract and then we are stuck with them. That’s my problem, the “another transfer window to fix it” is not a model I want at Hibs. I want us to be progressing. We’ve declined massively, current football reminds me of Butcher. We are also signing the type of players I’d rather we avoid - 30+ year olds, players who have been out the game for 6months, loans that aren’t just supplementing the squad but pretty much only option we have (MacLaren).

Again, how did we sign Allan, Fyvie, McGinn and McGeouch in the Championship? Something strange about that, we signed talented young players who excelled. Now we are signing seasoned pros or rejects (as Lennon has put it).

And what if he signs expensive successes and signs them on 3 year contracts? We're back into the land of conjecture with this kind of thinking. The fact is that none of us know in advance how any signing will turn out. We can play the pessimist or the optimist but can't predict the future.

I respect where you are coming from re" another transfer window to fix things", but, for me, Neil Lennon is best placed at this moment in time to know the players at his disposal and the type he needs to replace them. I'd be very surprised if Leeann and co are not thinking along exactly the same lines and keen to ensure they support him all they can.
A new manager is simply coming into the mix completely blind folded with the expectations of the supporters to get it right immediately - This scenario raises the spectre of Butcher all over.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

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How long does the slump have to continue before it becomes more relevant than what happened in bygone seasons? I'm not 'anti Neil Lennon' but I care primarily about the here and now and we are in total freefall.

Very much this.

[B.H.F.C]

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These are the facts that anti-Neil Lennon supporters choose to ignore - focusing rather on our present 7 game slump.

We have 6 games between now and the winter break. How many of them do you think we are likely to win? A couple at most maybe?

We’ll be talking about a couple of wins in 13 games.

It’s not just a slump. Something is seriously wrong.

[660]

Stubbs had us playing in Europe, getting to finals and skelping Hearts.

Best football since...uhhh Mowbray. I suppose 1.2 decades counts as “decades”.

[Hibeesmad]

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Stubbs had us playing in Europe, getting to finals and skelping Hearts.

Best football since...uhhh Mowbray. I suppose 1.2 decades counts as “decades”.

Stubbs will always be a legend for winning the Scottish Cup. However he couldn’t get us to a play off final after 2 seasons in the championship. Since he has left he has been sacked by Rotherham and St Mirren.

[660]

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Stubbs will always be a legend for winning the Scottish Cup. However he couldn’t get us to a play off final after 2 seasons in the championship. Since he has left he has been sacked by Rotherham and St Mirren.

I’m not saying Stubbs is the answer, I was just pointing out most of Lennons strengths cited by the OP also applied to Stubbs.

[Carheenlea]

The latest stats are the most important though, and trusting the manager is all well and good, but everything is pointing towards an alarming break down and undoing of all the previous good work.

[The 90+2]

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Stubbs will always be a legend for winning the Scottish Cup. However he couldn’t get us to a play off final after 2 seasons in the championship. Since he has left he has been sacked by Rotherham and St Mirren.

Lennon wouldn’t have taken us out the league the seasons we had under Stubbs.

Stubbs and George Craig with the assistance of LD built a football club and an actual team! Stubbs also won us building his own team our holy grail. Lennon recently hasn’t got an actual clue when it’s csme down to bringing his own players in and developing his own team. Not one clue.

Trust Lennon? Based on what? He can’t even trust himself to come out to be interviewed. To say sorry for his actions have spoiled our season up and set us back big time.

I said 8k, got called a drama queen but that’s around the mark it was tonight. We are bottom six and it’s the managers fault and nobody else, nothing to do with Petrie. The guy thinks he’s too good for us and is being found out as tactically rotten and a piss poor man manager.

[calumhibee1]

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Lennon wouldn’t have taken us out the league the seasons we had under Stubbs.

Stubbs and George Craig with the assistance of LD built a football club and an actual team! Stubbs also won us building his own team our holy grail. Lennon recently hasn’t got an actual clue when it’s csme down to bringing his own players in and developing his own team. Not one clue.

Trust Lennon? Based on what? He can’t even trust himself to come out to be interviewed. To say sorry for his actions have spoiled our season up and set us back big time.

I said 8k, got called a drama queen but that’s around the mark it was tonight. We are bottom six and it’s the managers fault and nobody else, nothing to do with Petrie. The guy thinks he’s too good for us and is being found out as tactically rotten and a piss poor man manager.

I agree 100% with your first sentence. Lack of promotion is always the stick used to beat Stubbs with but I highly doubt Lennon would have came in and turned us round in the first season to beat what was a rampant Hearts team and a Rangers team with a budget that dwarfed ours. I also doubt he would have managed to beat the Rangers team in the second season. That's not even a dig at Lennon. We were unlikely to win the league either of they two seasons no matter who was in charge.

Stubbs left Lennon a wonderful set up which he capitalised on by getting us promoted. We probably didn't improve a lot the first half of our first season back up but we were exceptional after January, lead by a magnificent midfield which was again mainly built by Stubbs (two of his players and one who used to be his player who Lennon brought back).

Since the Stubbs squad has started to break up we've started to crumble and Lennon doesn't look to have the answers.

[we are hibs]

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Stubbs will always be a legend for winning the Scottish Cup. However he couldn’t get us to a play off final after 2 seasons in the championship. Since he has left he has been sacked by Rotherham and St Mirren.

First season Stubbs had to chuck together a team from nothing with hearts and rangers in the league. We ended up 2nd and lost to rangers. Most hibs fans didn't expect us to even make the play offs in September 2014 cause we were poor up until the win at ibrox where everything seemed to click. Second season he had rangers in the league and going for it big time and we matched them until the end of February and maintained a run in both cups. Then the wheels came off in the league a bit but mitigating circumstances like getting to 2 cup finals with a small squad had a lot to do with it.

Let's not make out Stubbs was a complete disaster in the league; because he clearly wasn't.

[Hibeesmad]

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First season Stubbs had to chuck together a team from nothing with hearts and rangers in the league. We ended up 2nd and lost to rangers. Most hibs fans didn't expect us to even make the play offs in September 2014 cause we were poor up until the win at ibrox where everything seemed to click. Second season he had rangers in the league and going for it big time and we matched them until the end of February and maintained a run in both cups. Then the wheels came off in the league a bit but mitigating circumstances like getting to 2 cup finals with a small squad had a lot to do with it.

Let's not make out Stubbs was a complete disaster in the league; because he clearly wasn't.

I’m not, I’m stating facts