hibs.net Messageboard

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 31 to 34 of 34
  1. #31
    @hibs.net private member PeeJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    5,004
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Yes your right P. There's no denying that the game was up for Kaiser Bill as soon as their last offensive failed. But what I'm rather clumsily trying to say is that there were other factors that also played a role in how the war ended the way it did. Bill might have had the option to withdraw back behind the Rhine and continue a defensive war if it wasn't for mutiny, revolt and political unrest within their own borders. Same could be said for the allies who were willing to accept a truce rather than a surrender. Also interesting is that amongst the allied demands was the requirement for the Germans to withdraw from all positions west of the Rhine and everywhere else to positions within Germany, with the exception of the pro German West Russian Volunteer Army, this together with the demand that Germany annulled the treaties made the previous year with Bolshevik Russia is a good indicator that the allies were concerned socialist unrest within the ranks and at home could snowball if hostilities continued.
    It's an interesting topic no doubt, but I still think you may be interpreting some things wrongly here - I think there is evidence as you suggest that "the" Germans (from their perspective) hoped that the threat of Bolshevism on the domestic front would suffice to have the terms of surrender lessened somewhat - and that seems to have been the case to a minor extent, but ultimately the Allies called all the shots, I can't see any serious attempt to arrive at a mutual cessation of hostilities. Seems to me the Allies didn't make it into German territory primarily because of logistics, as the Germans had destroyed all roads/bridges into the Fatherland, slowing the Allied advance down - Once the population realised the war was not about to be won as the propoganda machine had told them, but rather lost the shock was too great and resentment was tremendous. I think France, in particular, demanded that Germany be "crippled" to such an extent in military terms that it would be unable to rearm in the long-term ... Germany was in no position to shape negotiations to any major extent - the myth making started the day after the armistice was signed of course - fake news is nothing new, unfortunately!
    .... Die spinnen, die Briten ....


  2. Log in to remove the advert

  3. #32
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,347
    Quote Originally Posted by PeeJay View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's an interesting topic no doubt, but I still think you may be interpreting some things wrongly here - I think there is evidence as you suggest that "the" Germans (from their perspective) hoped that the threat of Bolshevism on the domestic front would suffice to have the terms of surrender lessened somewhat - and that seems to have been the case to a minor extent, but ultimately the Allies called all the shots, I can't see any serious attempt to arrive at a mutual cessation of hostilities. Seems to me the Allies didn't make it into German territory primarily because of logistics, as the Germans had destroyed all roads/bridges into the Fatherland, slowing the Allied advance down - Once the population realised the war was not about to be won as the propoganda machine had told them, but rather lost the shock was too great and resentment was tremendous. I think France, in particular, demanded that Germany be "crippled" to such an extent in military terms that it would be unable to rearm in the long-term ... Germany was in no position to shape negotiations to any major extent - the myth making started the day after the armistice was signed of course - fake news is nothing new, unfortunately!
    Funnily enough this popped up on my social media today. I'll have to check some off the claims but most I know to be true. I think the myth making and fake news was started well before the end and all sides were at it. Sometimes it's easier to see what really went down long after the events and the mists of political spin have somewhat dispersed.

    https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/13535/analysis-glasgow-berlin-how-strikes-mutinies-and-revolutions-ended-ww1

  4. #33
    Private Members Prediction League Winner Hibrandenburg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Brandenburg
    Age
    53
    Posts
    10,347
    Sorry, the link doesn't work from my phone.

  5. #34
    @hibs.net private member PeeJay's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Berlin, Germany
    Posts
    5,004
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibrandenburg View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Sorry, the link doesn't work from my phone.
    Your link works fine on my PC P. - seems to me that your referenced article is shaping facts to suit its agenda - the mutiny in Germany at the marine bases was NOT primarily because the "working class" wanted to end the war - the simple truth is: the sailors/soldiers did not want to be sent to their deaths in a final, pointless battle, particularly as the war was now one that could never be won - the German propaganda machine's volte-face in the final days of the war fueled the prevailing unrest back home, but again I don't think the "threat of revolution" was the deciding or contributory factor in any armistice agreement - sure, it was somewhere - far down - in the mix, but the "ordinary people" had as little influence on stopping the war as it had had on starting the war - the decisions were always made elsewhere ... seems to me the low morale in the trenches was mainly down to the death and destruction all around them, not the promise of a worker's revolution back home. That's my feeling on the issue, but must look into this more ...
    .... Die spinnen, die Briten ....

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
hibs.net ©2012 All Rights Reserved