Scotland v Israel. Match updates

[Baader]

We need SDG in at right back if we want to win Euro 2020.

[cabbageandribs1875]

can't beat a good old 3-2 at the home of scottish football :)

[California-Hibs]

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Blimey, you’d think we had just been humiliated tonight reading through the negative comments by some on this thread. It’s as if they are desperately wanting us to lose so they can come on here and brag about it. Yeah I know deep down we are crap and I’ve criticised Scotland plenty of times before but credit where it’s due, we got the job done that was required and are now two games away from the Euros.

Said that many times before on here that 'its like people are wanting us to lose to fuel the negativity'. Its pretty grim.
Anyway, much more positive position now. Looking like a home match against Finland in the semi and then a final match (that could also be at home) against Norway or Serbia.

All as an added security if we don't get top 2 in our regular qualifying group, which will now see us draw a bunch of 'easier' teams.

It was a VERY big and good night for Scotland.

[DetroitHibs]

Tonight was a HUGE momentum shift IMO. We'll have the players wanting to pull on the jersey for Scotland and buzzing about qualification.

[blackpoolhibs]

Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom before you can start the climb back to where you want/think/should be, maybe the away game against last nights opponents was that?

We've not had much hope with the national team for quite a while, we have some of that back now.

How we engage the fans again i dont know, because as a fan it feels very much like Hibs before Dempster.

[bingo70]

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if you accept mediocrity nothing will ever improve. A few players have got him out of a hole. Nothing more. Albania are brutal and israel arent much better.

Yes, but we beat them both scoring 7 goals in the last 2 games and winning 3 out of 4 matches against them? What more were you hoping for?

I would say last night was pretty comfortable but I know conceding that second gave us a bit of a nervous finish.

The Scottish team isn’t in a great place just now so we need to enjoy the successes we do get, nobody knows what’s round the corner but we’ve given ourselves a chance and we’ve got an insurance policy if Mcleish turns out to be the dud many of us expected him to be.

[hibsbollah]

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Said that many times before on here that 'its like people are wanting us to lose to fuel the negativity'. Its pretty grim.
Anyway, much more positive position now. Looking like a home match against Finland in the semi and then a final match (that could also be at home) against Norway or Serbia.

All as an added security if we don't get top 2 in our regular qualifying group, which will now see us draw a bunch of 'easier' teams.

It was a VERY big and good night for Scotland.

I agree with all of that. Counterintuitively though, this is the perfect time to get rid of McLeish and get Jack Ross or Clarke in. It would be better for him too, could leave with a bit of dignity.

[SirDavidsNapper]

I'm confused.. (which isn't unusual)

We've played 4 games in total against Albania and Israel and we're in the playoffs? The actual Euro 2020 playoffs? Do we not play qualifiers anymore or is that what the Nations League is? Seems incredibly easy. So we play a two legged playoff to qualify for our first tournament since 1998? Really? Or am i missing something?

This time last week i was raging about another international break and now we're in the Euro 2020 playoffs I need to start showing an interest in the national team!

[danhibees1875]

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So this playoff semi against Finland is only a backup if we don't finish in the top 2 in our group? If we do, and Finland don't, does that mean they get a bye to a playoff final?

Have we been drawn against Finland? (edit: draw won't be made until after the qualifiers )

Either way, they wouldn't get a bye - the semi final spot would go to the best placed 2nd team from league C (Romania).

[One Day Soon]

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Israel and Albania. FFS. It was hardly the hardest of opponents.

This is the England World Cup debate all over again, cross-dressed as Scotland. We can only play - and hopefully beat - the teams that are put in front of us. GJP has done that despite pretty hefty squad changes. That should raise confidence and deliver some momentum too.

If we end up qualifying for the finals of a tournament it will be an enormous triumph given our miserable qualifying record over many, many years now.

[Brightside]

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I agree with all of that. Counterintuitively though, this is the perfect time to get rid of McLeish and get Jack Ross or Clarke in. It would be better for him too, could leave with a bit of dignity.

100% agree. Now is the time to build and develop. And that includes the back room staff. We have some cracking attacking players at the moment and there is no reason for us not to improve massively very quickly.

[danhibees1875]

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I'm confused.. (which isn't unusual)

We've played 4 games in total against Albania and Israel and we're in the playoffs? The actual Euro 2020 playoffs? Do we not play qualifiers anymore or is that what the Nations League is? Seems incredibly easy. So we play a two legged playoff to qualify for our first tournament since 1998? Really? Or am i missing something?

This time last week i was raging about another international break and now we're in the Euro 2020 playoffs I need to start showing an interest in the national team!

We still have the qualifiers as normal. With the top 2 teams from each group progressing.

Winning this mini league is a back up in case you don't qualify in the normal qualifying - we'll then have a single legged semi and final to play.

[One Day Soon]

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I'm confused.. (which isn't unusual)

We've played 4 games in total against Albania and Israel and we're in the playoffs? The actual Euro 2020 playoffs? Do we not play qualifiers anymore or is that what the Nations League is? Seems incredibly easy. So we play a two legged playoff to qualify for our first tournament since 1998? Really? Or am i missing something?

This time last week i was raging about another international break and now we're in the Euro 2020 playoffs I need to start showing an interest in the national team!

Does anyone have a link to a simple explanation of how all this works? I have a) not been paying attention on the basis that I don't like international breaks and b) assumed of course that we would crash and burn.

It feels like its some kind of mystic process built on a hybrid of quadratic equations and that primary school game we used to use to decide who would get first pick for players.

[Diclonius]

Top of the list now should be developing young players and chucking the majority of the players who have gone through failed campaign after another. Anyone who takes the piss at call up time with "am injured lol" only to start the following week can go too.

[Smartie]

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100% agree. Now is the time to build and develop. And that includes the back room staff. We have some cracking attacking players at the moment and there is no reason for us not to improve massively very quickly.

3 of his 4 competitive games have been very good.

Why should we be even thinking about changing the manager?

[bingo70]

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3 of his 4 competitive games have been very good.

Why should we be even thinking about changing the manager?

We shouldn’t.

Nobody has been more critical of Mcleish than me but the idea of changing managers just as he finds a system that works and on the back of a successful, if short, campaign is ridiculous.

I’m still not convinced by Mcleish but he’s earned the right for the qualifying campaign, if he flops as some are predicting then we can replace him and his replacement will have time to prepare for the play offs.

[Allant1981]

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100% agree. Now is the time to build and develop. And that includes the back room staff. We have some cracking attacking players at the moment and there is no reason for us not to improve massively very quickly.

By improving do you mean winning qualifying games?

[calumhibee1]

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Said that many times before on here that 'its like people are wanting us to lose to fuel the negativity'. Its pretty grim.
Anyway, much more positive position now. Looking like a home match against Finland in the semi and then a final match (that could also be at home) against Norway or Serbia.

All as an added security if we don't get top 2 in our regular qualifying group, which will now see us draw a bunch of 'easier' teams.

It was a VERY big and good night for Scotland.

With regards to the playoffs, someone said we’re at home because we’re the highest ranked team out of the four. I presume that means the fixtures go:

Highest ranked v lowest ranked
2nd highest v 2nd lowest

As well be the highest ranked if we get through the semi final, does that mean we’re at home in the final or will that be a neautral venue?

[David_D]

I’m sure i saw something last night saying that there would be a draw/balllot to determine where the final would be played.

[Pretty Boy]

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Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom before you can start the climb back to where you want/think/should be, maybe the away game against last nights opponents was that?

We've not had much hope with the national team for quite a while, we have some of that back now.

How we engage the fans again i dont know, because as a fan it feels very much like Hibs before Dempster.

Keep winning games and make a bright start to the qualifying campaign and the fans will come back.

I went to all the home qualifiers for the 94 and 98 WCs and the 96 and 00 Euros and a few of the 02 WC qualifiers as well. I lost interest for a long time, I think a game at ER v Canada, an away trip to Amsterdam for reasons other than football and a game at Hampden v Lithuania was my lot since then, but seeing an enthusiastic team put in performances and show the pride they did in the last couple of games made me think I might try to get to a couple of the qualifiers or even a friendly or 2.

I take my hat off to the die hard folk who have stuck with the team in the lean years, I'll openly admit I don't feel the passion for Scotland that I do for Hibs so it's easy top dip in and out, but I'm sure there are loads like me that will 'crawl out the woodwork' if there's a team on the park that instills a bit pride and passion.

[jacomo]

Good result last night but Scotland still a long way from being a good team. Run ragged by a very limited opponent at times.

Still, we are scoring goals which is always a positive, and hopefully some tweaks in defence and midfield can bring us a bit of control and composure.

[Iggy Pope]

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Scotland win

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Sometimes you need to hit rock bottom before you can start the climb back to where you want/think/should be, maybe the away game against last nights opponents was that?

We've not had much hope with the national team for quite a while, we have some of that back now.

How we engage the fans again i dont know, because as a fan it feels very much like Hibs before Dempster.

Times the last few years I wouldn’t watch Scotland if they were playing in my back green but they had me out the kitchen seat last night.
We are a small nation. Regardless of what that means on the pitch (covered a million times on here already), we have a national sport that we are failing at as a nation and our disproportionately large crowds of old have diminished. The equivalent of a quarter of the population of Glasgow isn’t turning up to try and get in to Hampden again anytime soon. Small steps in the way of a few wins help. Qualifying for something and stirring the nation into a frenzy (as our counterparts do) will boost interest a hundred times over.

[G B Young]

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This is the England World Cup debate all over again, cross-dressed as Scotland. We can only play - and hopefully beat - the teams that are put in front of us. GJP has done that despite pretty hefty squad changes. That should raise confidence and deliver some momentum too.

If we end up qualifying for the finals of a tournament it will be an enormous triumph given our miserable qualifying record over many, many years now.

It's not the same scenario at all. There's a world of difference between getting a perceived 'easy' draw at the World Cup finals (where every team competing has come through qualifying) and finding yourself in a desperately poor Nations League qualifying group due to your failure to qualify for any major tournament for over two decades.

If we qualify for the 2020 Euros via the Nations League route it will not be an enormous triumph, it will be a sorry reflection of the fact we needed the rules changed to give a us a much easier back door route to qualifying. The only evidence of progress would be to get their via the actual Euro qualifiers. If we do that, and reach or first Euros for 24 years then, granted, we can acknowledge it as a meaningful achievement.

[The Modfather]

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It's not the same scenario at all. There's a world of difference between getting a perceived 'easy' draw at the World Cup finals (where every team competing has come through qualifying) and finding yourself in a desperately poor Nations League qualifying group due to your failure to qualify for any major tournament for over two decades.

If we qualify for the 2020 Euros via the Nations League route it will not be an enormous triumph, it will be a sorry reflection of the fact we needed the rules changed to give a us a much easier back door route to qualifying. The only evidence of progress would be to get their via the actual Euro qualifiers. If we do that, and reach or first Euros for 24 years then, granted, we can acknowledge it as a meaningful achievement.

You’re trying too hard to find negatives.

[G B Young]

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You’re trying too hard to find negatives.

Not really, just questioning whether the Nations League format does anything to actually improve standards or whether it's just a way of making the smaller nations feel better about their ability to compete against similarly average sides. If we were to qualify for a major tournament via this route it would strike me as a similar to school exams being dumbed down as a way of supposedly cutting the attainment gap. You just have to look at the recent thumpings at home by Belgium and a Portugal reserve side for our true standing to be painfully brought home.

It depends, I guess, whether you want to see Scotland prove that they belong at higher level or whether after so many years of failure you simply want to see them at a major tournament no matter how they get there. My brother in law is certainly of the view that he's been denied too many boozy summer sprees by Scotland's incompetence, having followed them to several major tournaments up to and including Euro 1996. He's hoping to celebrate his 60th birthday at Euro 2020 (having been a youthful 35 at Euro 96!) so if, for a lot of fans, it's primarily about the beer (why else, you have to ask, do the tartan army continue to traipse around the world?) then maybe it doesn't matter how the hell we qualify.

[The Modfather]

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Not really, just questioning whether the Nations League format does anything to actually improve standards or whether it's just a way of making the smaller nations feel better about their ability to compete against similarly average sides. If we were to qualify for a major tournament via this route it would strike me as a similar to school exams being dumbed down as a way of supposedly cutting the attainment gap. You just have to look at the recent thumpings at home by Belgium and a Portugal reserve side for our true standing to be painfully brought home.

It depends, I guess, whether you want to see Scotland prove that they belong at higher level or whether after so many years of failure you simply want to see them at a major tournament no matter how they get there. My brother in law is certainly of the view that he's been denied too many boozy summer sprees by Scotland's incompetence, having followed them to several major tournaments up to and including Euro 1996. He's hoping to celebrate his 60th birthday at Euro 2020 (having been a youthful 35 at Euro 96!) so if, for a lot of fans, it's primarily about the beer (why else, you have to ask, do the tartan army continue to traipse around the world?) then maybe it doesn't matter how the hell we qualify.

I’m not sure the Danes care at all how they came to end up in Euro 92 when it comes to them celebrating their triumph. Similary, as someone who has followed Scotland a lot over the last 10-15 years I just want the chance to see Scotland playing at a major tournament and to then get back there regularly. If it’s through a new competition so be it, we will be there on merit.

[G B Young]

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I’m not sure the Danes care at all how they came to end up in Euro 92 when it comes to them celebrating their triumph. Similary, as someone who has followed Scotland a lot over the last 10-15 years I just want the chance to see Scotland playing at a major tournament and to then get back there regularly. If it’s through a new competition so be it, we will be there on merit.

Not sure if 'on merit' would be the right way to describe it but you're right, it would be done via the new, extended qualifying process so our presence at the tournament would be legitimate. However, the message this way of doing things seems to send out to smaller teams is 'make sure you get yourself among the dud Nations League groups and you'll be in with a much easier chance of actually qualifying for a major tournament.'

I just don't buy this widening of the net. The current FIFA president wants to expand the next World Cup from 32 to 48 teams. All that will do is increase the number of meaningless games and do nothing to raise standards. Why, in that case, bother with the qualifying process at all? By admitting nearly 50 teams it will probably be easier to qualify than to fail so why not just open up the whole tournament into a jamboree of football featuring however many teams want to play in it?

[Prof. Shaggy]

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Not really, just questioning whether the Nations League format does anything to actually improve standards or whether it's just a way of making the smaller nations feel better about their ability to compete against similarly average sides. If we were to qualify for a major tournament via this route it would strike me as a similar to school exams being dumbed down as a way of supposedly cutting the attainment gap. You just have to look at the recent thumpings at home by Belgium and a Portugal reserve side for our true standing to be painfully brought home.

They'd never do that, would they?

[G B Young]

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They'd never do that, would they?

Of course not. Nor would they stop giving out homework at less deprived primary schools in order to stop those kids pulling too far ahead. No government that asks to be judged on its education policy would ever do such a thing.

[WeeRussell]

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Not sure if 'on merit' would be the right way to describe it but you're right, it would be done via the new, extended qualifying process so our presence at the tournament would be legitimate. However, the message this way of doing things seems to send out to smaller teams is 'make sure you get yourself among the dud Nations League groups and you'll be in with a much easier chance of actually qualifying for a major tournament.'

I just don't buy this widening of the net. The current FIFA president wants to expand the next World Cup from 32 to 48 teams. All that will do is increase the number of meaningless games and do nothing to raise standards. Why, in that case, bother with the qualifying process at all? By admitting nearly 50 teams it will probably be easier to qualify than to fail so why not just open up the whole tournament into a jamboree of football featuring however many teams want to play in it?

You could save yourself a lot of typing and just say you hope we don’t qualify.