Evening News and Scotsman

[heretoday]

It was a great paper. When you think of that magnificent giant of a building chuntering away in Market St and the office appartment it has now become in Orchard Brae, you shake your head at the demise of the newspaper industry.

The death of the Evening News would be serious too. Local folk need local news, especially old folk. Where else are they going to get it? Certainly not on the radio or TV.

Here's hoping some buyer will come along.

[heidtheba]

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I tend to agree.

You can extend that to all parts of the media really and I’d include the Daily Record in Sun in that too.

It’s fashionable just to call them rags and tell everyone you’ve never bought them for 20+ years yet folk still care what they have to say!

We all want the press to write positive stuff about our club and show our rivals in the worst possible light. If they don’t, we slate them.

Same goes for BBC or anyone else who passes comment on Scottish football.

And politically too. Well, it is with me. Wouldn't touch one newspaper with a ten foot barge pole, and that's sad. It's sad that I won't pick up an alternative viewpoint simply because it's too alternative to what I think, but a large part of me can argue that's down to everything becoming even more polarised today. I'm too young to remember much of the media coverage during the Mrs Thatcher years and I imagine it was probably very polarised then, but at the moment? Everything is just so 'us v them'. Football. Scottish politics. UK politics. International politics. Debate is dying and shouty whataboutery is too prevalent on all sides.

It's probably just me but I'm heartily sick of the whole lot of it now.

[southsider]

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Its yesterday’s news that’s in it as well. It’s on sale at 8am in the morning

And printed in Glasgow

[heretoday]

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Where am I going to check now to make sure I am still alive?

Facebook? I'm serious.

[Joe6-2]

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Sorry to hear as people will end up without a job. Not great going into Xmas.
To be honest not bought a newspaper (except after winning cup finals) since early 2000’s.
Online media has killed the written press.

So has their skewed reporting

[Tomsk]

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If this was about the Michelin plant closing in Dundee it would rightly all be about how bad it is for the local economy, the workers affected, their families and the local supply chain. This is no different. And people are going to have their pensions plundered, just think about that. How would you feel if your pension was being smashed and the response was 'meh, it's a price worth paying'?

I'm about as anti-Nat as it's possible to be - both on independence and on the performance of the Nats in running Scotland over the last 11 years - but if The National folded I'd think it was a bad day for our press in Scotland. Not perhaps, in my view, for journalistic standards but certainly for the notion of a plural media where democratic debate is supported by a range of opinion. The Scotsman does feature a wide range of contributors from people of both independence and union perspectives as others have already said and I'm not sure that the National does that. And anything that would leave us more dependent upon the tender mercies of the Red Tops for printed press new has to be a bad thing.

It was important enough for Salmond in a previous life to want to try to lead a consortium to take it over too and while I'm not naive about his then motive with that it does speak to the importance of the paper.

It's not clear either how it helps in the wooing stakes for pro-indy people to be gloating over its demise (though it looks to me more like a reinvention than a closing of doors) but in political terms that's their call.

Excellent post.

I would also add that if the Scotsman goes under it will be demise of any vestiges of a national media voice emanating from outside Glasgow.

[The 90+2]

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It was a great paper. When you think of that magnificent giant of a building chuntering away in Market St and the office appartment it has now become in Orchard Brae, you shake your head at the demise of the newspaper industry.

The death of the Evening News would be serious too. Local folk need local news, especially old folk. Where else are they going to get it? Certainly not on the radio or TV.

Here's hoping some buyer will come along.

Edinburgh reporter I’m guessing. The pink was best paper in the world back in the day. I was proud to deliver it 😀

[Earlydelivery]

Thank god my Mrs had the hindsight to transfer her pension when Johnston press made her redundant.

[Squirrel 1875]

The independence referendum should have been a time for the Scottish press to come alive and create space for debate and inform opinion. It sadly failed to achieve this, printing poor articles and taking a very one sided editorial stance. The decline in sales since then is symptomatic of that.

What makes me incredibly uncomfortable is the constant spewing of the words “fake news”. As a journalist myself I highly doubt The Scotsman has ever deliberately printed malicious lies. Without doubt it had an editorial stance during the referendum, but I can’t think of any outright lies it told and I voted yes.

Holding power to account is an important aspect of creating a functioning democratic society. Newspapers help us to do this. SNP supporters have become very defensive of any story which even slightly critices the Scottish Government, greeting anything with claims of it being “anti-Scottish”. I’d prefer my press to be inquisitive rather than a Government press release sheet like The National.

When I was back in Edinburgh recently I picked up a copy of The Scotsman and it had an editorial defending the Scottish Government and a column by Loki (pro-independence commentator). I fear the same people who are criticizing the paper on this thread haven’t actually picked up a copy in some times and are dishing out an uninformed opinion.

I find it incredible the demise of debate in Scotland. I think this is a sad reflection of our society.

[Keith_M]

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Excellent post.

I would also add that if the Scotsman goes under it will be demise of any vestiges of a national media voice emanating from outside Glasgow.

Sorry to disagree but I think that ship sailed a long time ago, at least with The Scotsman.

I hate the rag that is the Daily Record (or Daily Mirror, Scottish branch) but, as I mentioned earlier, you could do worse than read the Herald now and again. It's not so Glasgow centric as you might think and is reasonably balance politically.

I'm an independence supporter, but I wouldn't read the National because it's too one sided. I think the Herald treats each side much more fairly.

[Just Alf]

Quite simply they've not kept up with the times, nowadays many people use online media first then maybe buy a paper, as a way of enticing new/occasional readers to buy their papers their Web offering is woeful, its almost like its been set up by a competitor to put them under and management haven't noticed.

As for the editorial stance, I've not read it in a while as it was, to me at least, too much the opposite of my view, reading above I've either been unlucky in the editions I bought or its changed over time.

For what it's worth having only polar opposites being published (indy/no or Brexit etc) is a bad road to go down, people will only read what appeals (see my previous paragraph!) so will never change their opinion on something, we really need some quality balanced reporting that shows arguments from both sides of an issue, it's there that change can happen.


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[Beefster]

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The independence referendum should have been a time for the Scottish press to come alive and create space for debate and inform opinion. It sadly failed to achieve this, printing poor articles and taking a very one sided editorial stance. The decline in sales since then is symptomatic of that.

What makes me incredibly uncomfortable is the constant spewing of the words “fake news”. As a journalist myself I highly doubt The Scotsman has ever deliberately printed malicious lies. Without doubt it had an editorial stance during the referendum, but I can’t think of any outright lies it told and I voted yes.

Holding power to account is an important aspect of creating a functioning democratic society. Newspapers help us to do this. SNP supporters have become very defensive of any story which even slightly critices the Scottish Government, greeting anything with claims of it being “anti-Scottish”. I’d prefer my press to be inquisitive rather than a Government press release sheet like The National.

When I was back in Edinburgh recently I picked up a copy of The Scotsman and it had an editorial defending the Scottish Government and a column by Loki (pro-independence commentator). I fear the same people who are criticizing the paper on this thread haven’t actually picked up a copy in some times and are dishing out an uninformed opinion.

I find it incredible the demise of debate in Scotland. I think this is a sad reflection of our society.

I suspect that most folks' opinions on the Scotsman and EEN is shaped by either some nationalist moaning about it on Twitter or the truly awful websites. I include myself in that - I've barely read either in years.

You're absolutely spot on about the decline in political discourse. It's a general issue though. See the Brexiteers in England and Republicans in the US as other examples of the same phenomenon.

[Curried]

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The independence referendum should have been a time for the Scottish press to come alive and create space for debate and inform opinion. It sadly failed to achieve this, printing poor articles and taking a very one sided editorial stance. The decline in sales since then is symptomatic of that.

What makes me incredibly uncomfortable is the constant spewing of the words “fake news”. As a journalist myself I highly doubt The Scotsman has ever deliberately printed malicious lies. Without doubt it had an editorial stance during the referendum, but I can’t think of any outright lies it told and I voted yes.

Holding power to account is an important aspect of creating a functioning democratic society. Newspapers help us to do this. SNP supporters have become very defensive of any story which even slightly critices the Scottish Government, greeting anything with claims of it being “anti-Scottish”. I’d prefer my press to be inquisitive rather than a Government press release sheet like The National.

When I was back in Edinburgh recently I picked up a copy of The Scotsman and it had an editorial defending the Scottish Government and a column by Loki (pro-independence commentator). I fear the same people who are criticizing the paper on this thread haven’t actually picked up a copy in some times and are dishing out an uninformed opinion.

I find it incredible the demise of debate in Scotland. I think this is a sad reflection of our society.

I suggest you have a long, hard, look at the best-recommended comments from this British National establishment publication debating The (The:-) Scotsman’s demise:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/15/the-scotsman-future-liberal-voice

“Oh come on, it might have been a great journalistic firebrand once but it's been little but a whining, right-wing Unionist mouthpiece since Neil was at the helm -- and that wasn't yesterday.”

“The Orange Order's in -house magazine these days. Comments section polluted by sectarian knuckle-draggers.”

“The Scotsman may once have been a proud liberal paper but those days are long gone. It's now a rabid British nationalist rag. Just have a read of the comments below the bylines or the green ink gang in the letters section. Any paper that employs the likes of Jill Stephenson to sprout her hateful bile deserves to consigned to the dustbin. A sad end to a once proud paper but one that was partially self inflicted.”

“I was once a regular reader when it was a quality broadsheet, with great balanced reporting and great Scottish sport coverage (take note Guardian). I stopped when it moved down market and pinned its colours to the Unionist cause. Will I be sad if it goes under? Yes, it was once a good paper but it is the architect of its own downfall. Scotland needs a quality non-aligned newspaper which gives a forensic but fair analysis of the political scene north and south of the border.”

“The Scotsman sealed its own fate by its unthinking support of the Union. It has been consistently biased against independence for years and is now so far out of touch with its potential readership that it can't survive.”

“It had a very good chance to show that it was still a voice of 'Scottish aspiration' in 2014; instead it followed 95% of the Scottish media in the 'too wee, too poor' mantra of unionism. Can't say I'll be shedding too many tears at its demise then.”

“The Scotsman is a reactionary, right wing rag not fit for use as bum wipe. It's been in a death spiral for the last 20 years and nobody will miss it when it's gone.”

“The Scotsman is British Nationalist paper and that's why Scots have stopped reading it. Good riddance.”

“The Scotsman was bought and wrecked by the Barclays - who were admirers of and political travellers with Mrs Thatcher, and completely out of touch with Scottish public opinion. It has been a sad shadow of its former self for over twenty years. Since Magnus Linklater's time as editor, much of its coverage of Scottish politics has been weak and febrile. It has lost touch with its natural liberal and intellectual readership, becoming instead a thin concoction of often reactionary commentary, twee spreads on posh Edinburgh properties, parish pump controversies and not very funny gossip. The Scotsman was once Scotland's version of the Guardian but that was an age ago. I don't think it's ever likely to regain its reputation as Scotland's liberal and high minded paper of record, so let it pass into history. Few, other than those of us who can remember its glory days in the 1970s and 1980s, will mourn its passing.”

[Ozyhibby]

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The independence referendum should have been a time for the Scottish press to come alive and create space for debate and inform opinion. It sadly failed to achieve this, printing poor articles and taking a very one sided editorial stance. The decline in sales since then is symptomatic of that.

What makes me incredibly uncomfortable is the constant spewing of the words “fake news”. As a journalist myself I highly doubt The Scotsman has ever deliberately printed malicious lies. Without doubt it had an editorial stance during the referendum, but I can’t think of any outright lies it told and I voted yes.

Holding power to account is an important aspect of creating a functioning democratic society. Newspapers help us to do this. SNP supporters have become very defensive of any story which even slightly critices the Scottish Government, greeting anything with claims of it being “anti-Scottish”. I’d prefer my press to be inquisitive rather than a Government press release sheet like The National.

When I was back in Edinburgh recently I picked up a copy of The Scotsman and it had an editorial defending the Scottish Government and a column by Loki (pro-independence commentator). I fear the same people who are criticizing the paper on this thread haven’t actually picked up a copy in some times and are dishing out an uninformed opinion.

I find it incredible the demise of debate in Scotland. I think this is a sad reflection of our society.

I think even the people defending the Scotsman haven’t picked up a copy in a while either which is why it is in the situation it is.
If you are going to pick sides which is what the Scotsman done in 2014 then they should not be surprised when people on the other side turn their back on you.


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[Squirrel 1875]

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I suspect that most folks' opinions on the Scotsman and EEN is shaped by either some nationalist moaning about it on Twitter or the truly awful websites. I include myself in that - I've barely read either in years.

You're absolutely spot on about the decline in political discourse. It's a general issue though. See the Brexiteers in England and Republicans in the US as other examples of the same phenomenon.

There are plenty accounts moaning about the Scottish media landscape as being biased, both unionist and nationalist. The sad thing is that Scotland doesn’t have a newspaper with its reputation unscathed after the independence referendum. Some posts praise The Herald, but I recall they took just as harsh a stance to nationalism as The Scotsman did. They recently created two separate Sunday newspapers to cater for their unionist and nationalist audiences, something which I personally find bizzare.

Unfortunately, I think Scotland’s newspapers have failed to make themselves relevant, despite the golden opportunity the independence referendum and Brexit represented. I had high hopes for The National, but when my family back home (all avid yes voters) won’t buy it because it’s just repeating the Government line I think you know it’s reputation is suffering.

[Tomsk]

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Sorry to disagree but I think that ship sailed a long time ago, at least with The Scotsman.

I hate the rag that is the Daily Record (or Daily Mirror, Scottish branch) but, as I mentioned earlier, you could do worse than read the Herald now and again. It's not so Glasgow centric as you might think and is reasonably balance politically.

I'm an independence supporter, but I wouldn't read the National because it's too one sided. I think the Herald treats each side much more fairly.

I'm not sure what you're disagreeing with. If you're saying the Scotsman is less and less an Edinburgh paper I would agree with you, and is why I used the term 'any vestiges'. Some of the journalists working on the Scotsman and News don't know the first thing about Edinburgh.

[heretoday]

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The independence referendum should have been a time for the Scottish press to come alive and create space for debate and inform opinion. It sadly failed to achieve this, printing poor articles and taking a very one sided editorial stance. The decline in sales since then is symptomatic of that.

What makes me incredibly uncomfortable is the constant spewing of the words “fake news”. As a journalist myself I highly doubt The Scotsman has ever deliberately printed malicious lies. Without doubt it had an editorial stance during the referendum, but I can’t think of any outright lies it told and I voted yes.

Holding power to account is an important aspect of creating a functioning democratic society. Newspapers help us to do this. SNP supporters have become very defensive of any story which even slightly critices the Scottish Government, greeting anything with claims of it being “anti-Scottish”. I’d prefer my press to be inquisitive rather than a Government press release sheet like The National.

When I was back in Edinburgh recently I picked up a copy of The Scotsman and it had an editorial defending the Scottish Government and a column by Loki (pro-independence commentator). I fear the same people who are criticizing the paper on this thread haven’t actually picked up a copy in some times and are dishing out an uninformed opinion.

I find it incredible the demise of debate in Scotland. I think this is a sad reflection of our society.

Good post. I think for a lot of people just having a newspaper in their hands fulfills a need of sorts! The Scotsman was always the "newspaper of record" for those in and around the capital and whether you agreed with its editorial line or not you had the certainty of knowing that you'd be able to find stuff you needed inside, be it Deaths and Marriages or whatever. You'd get the same useful information from The Times or The Daily Telegraph. The key word is Information.

I have to say that the Scotsman website, which to their credit is still free to view, is a hard thing to get around. Maybe it's my PC but the site jumps about and takes a long time to load the pages.

During the referendum, I found the Scotsman to be pretty fair on the whole, as was The Herald. They published letters from both sides and I can recall articles by, among others, Lesley Riddoch, a pro-indy commentator.

[Curried]

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Good post. I think for a lot of people just having a newspaper in their hands fulfills a need of sorts! The Scotsman was always the "newspaper of record" for those in and around the capital and whether you agreed with its editorial line or not you had the certainty of knowing that you'd be able to find stuff you needed inside, be it Deaths and Marriages or whatever. You'd get the same useful information from The Times or The Daily Telegraph. The key word is Information.

I have to say that the Scotsman website, which to their credit is still free to view, is a hard thing to get around. Maybe it's my PC but the site jumps about and takes a long time to load the pages.

During the referendum, I found the Scotsman to be pretty fair on the whole, as was The Herald. They published letters from both sides and I can recall articles by, among others, Lesley Riddoch, a pro-indy commentator.

Aye Right. Short memory maybe:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-29154239

[Spike Mandela]

Used to deliver the Evening News and the Pink as a paper boy. I remember asking Abdul the newsagent to increase my pay from £1.15 a week and he put it up to £1.25.😀 Made sure I read the Pink from cover to cover when delivering it.

Truth is nowadays I never buy a paper. I try and get my news from a wide variety of outlets instead of one agenda driven publication.

Good journalism is hard to find and media organisations really need to get with the times to prosper in these social media driven times. Which brings good things and of course some bad.

Can’t believe I used to walk miles in holiday resorts to get a day old Daily Record to read. Nowadays I wouldn’t take a Daily Record if offered a free lifetime supply. Unbelievable that I used to get football news through the blinkered eyes of the likes of Jim Traynor. People are so much more media savvy now.

[Waxy]

This time next year we’ll be reading the Edinburgh evening news experience.

[Jackh]

One for the fans reps?

[heretoday]

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Aye Right. Short memory maybe:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-29154239

Yes they did take a No line in general but you don't get a quality paper just to read what you agree with. I read the Scotsman and often the Herald throughout the campaign and in no way did I feel I was being brainwashed.
Keep reading the National if you just want one side of the story.

[NAE NOOKIE]

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If this was about the Michelin plant closing in Dundee it would rightly all be about how bad it is for the local economy, the workers affected, their families and the local supply chain. This is no different. And people are going to have their pensions plundered, just think about that. How would you feel if your pension was being smashed and the response was 'meh, it's a price worth paying'?

I'm about as anti-Nat as it's possible to be - both on independence and on the performance of the Nats in running Scotland over the last 11 years - but if The National folded I'd think it was a bad day for our press in Scotland. Not perhaps, in my view, for journalistic standards but certainly for the notion of a plural media where democratic debate is supported by a range of opinion. The Scotsman does feature a wide range of contributors from people of both independence and union perspectives as others have already said and I'm not sure that the National does that. And anything that would leave us more dependent upon the tender mercies of the Red Tops for printed press new has to be a bad thing.

It was important enough for Salmond in a previous life to want to try to lead a consortium to take it over too and while I'm not naive about his then motive with that it does speak to the importance of the paper.

It's not clear either how it helps in the wooing stakes for pro-indy people to be gloating over its demise (though it looks to me more like a reinvention than a closing of doors) but in political terms that's their call.

It doesn't, but it unashamedly doesn't. The whole point of the National was to produce a paper to counteract the overwhelming anti independence editorial stance of the print media in this country and in a lot of cases fervently anti independence like the Daily Mail and Daily Express. The only paper available to counteract that was the Sunday Herald and now sadly even that has been closed.

In that landscape bereft of any balanced view regarding Scotland's place in the world in our printed media what wasn't required was a paper with a balanced view, it was a paper aimed at people who already had a pro independence view and who needed something to counteract the 'too wee' 'too poor' 'too stupid' stance of the other papers and their overwhelmingly right wing owners printing stuff that was in many instances nothing short of downright lies.

At least the National is an honest paper and doesn't pretend it is presenting a 'balanced' view but rather printing stuff which reflects and presents the positives an independent Scotland could bring, though it does also acknowledge the difficulties becoming an independent nation could present in a reasonably honest fashion.

As for the Scotsman …. I think I have purchased the paper about 20 times in the last 5 years so I cant really comment on how pro or anti independence it is, but the general consensus seems to be that it had gone the way of the rest of the media in Scotland, so its hardly a surprise that by just being another tiny fish swimming in the pool of big fish all pushing pro union and anti independence / SNP propaganda down everybody's throat it has begun to flounder.

The situation that lead to the advent of the National can be illustrated by what happened during the referendum. On every talk show where people were taking part what you had was, for example Question time, where the subject was Scottish independence and the panel was made up of:

Kezia Dugdale … pro union
Ruth Davidson … pro union
Willie Rennie … pro union
A/N other … probably the editor of some pro union rag
John Swinney … pro independence

Welcome to Perth and our first question comes from Torquil Toryboy:

'Thanks David … could Scotland survive as an independent country?'

Dugdale …. 5 minutes on why not
Davidson … 5 minutes on why not
Rennie … 3 minutes on why not
Pro union rag editor …. 3 minutes on why not
Swinney … 3 minutes on why, during which he is constantly interrupted by Dimbleby and the 4 other panel members.

That's what a balanced approach to democracy looks like in this country … perhaps we need a 'National' TV station as well.

[Scotty Leither]

It amuses me that current affairs programmes, especially ones broadcast by the BBC, still have a lengthy debate on "what the papers say" and never reference any of the online political blogs or websites...

It's as if they're scared to acknowledge their existence, and instead blithely pontificate on what's in the rags passing as "news" despite the readership of a large number of them falling through the floor.

We can all take a sample of a broad range of opinions online these days; I even very occasionally take a look at some of the shrill witterings of Jill Stephenson and her cohorts on Scotland in Union if I'm wanting a laugh, but the print and broadcast media need to realise they don't have the same reach they once had.

[andrew70]

https://www.andrewscornerflag.co.uk/

Hope a link to my blog is okay, please delete if not.

Read all about it...Johnston’s Press administration led me to think about the Pink newspaper and how the newspaper industry is similar to the football industry in that it’s losing its traditional identity.

There’s other football/Hibs related articles also.

[Curried]

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Yes they did take a No line in general but you don't get a quality paper just to read what you agree with. I read the Scotsman and often the Herald throughout the campaign and in no way did I feel I was being brainwashed.
Keep reading the National if you just want one side of the story.

Are you seriously trying to tell me that the Scotsman is a quality paper?

[heretoday]

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Are you seriously trying to tell me that the Scotsman is a quality paper?

Not as quality as it used to be, sadly. Maybe the new owners will raise it up again.

[Curried]

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Not as quality as it used to be, sadly. Maybe the new owners will raise it up again.

Just for perspective this is where your quality paper sits today in terms of daily circulation :-(

REGIONAL DAILY (Jan-Jun 2018)
Press & Journal (Aberdeen) 45,935 (down 2%)
The Courier (Dundee) 34,260 (down 3%)
The Herald (Glasgow) 24,265 (down 6%)
Evening Express (Aberdeen) 21,003 (down 7%)
Evening Times (Glasgow) 19,130 (down 8%)
The Scotsman (Edinburgh) 13,739 (down 8%)
Evening Telegraph (Dundee) 12,351 (down 7%)
Paisley Daily Express (Paisley) 4,378 (down 3%)

[G B Young]

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Just for perspective this is where your quality paper sits today in terms of daily circulation :-(

REGIONAL DAILY (Jan-Jun 2018)
Press & Journal (Aberdeen) 45,935 (down 2%)
The Courier (Dundee) 34,260 (down 3%)
The Herald (Glasgow) 24,265 (down 6%)
Evening Express (Aberdeen) 21,003 (down 7%)
Evening Times (Glasgow) 19,130 (down 8%)
The Scotsman (Edinburgh) 13,739 (down 8%)
Evening Telegraph (Dundee) 12,351 (down 7%)
Paisley Daily Express (Paisley) 4,378 (down 3%)

Circulations continuing to plummet across the board, with only the DC Thomson-owned P&J and Courier continuing to command respectable (by today's standards) readerships. You won't find a more Conservative-minded owner than DCT but they are canny operators. As somebody else has alluded to, the Scotsman these days is cobbled together by a skeleton staff in a non-descript office in Orchard Brae House and despite today's 'rescue' deal is likely to maintain its downward spiral. Sunday Herald has already gone under this year and I can't see either the Herald or Scotsman being around in print form for much longer.

[Squirrel 1875]

There seems to be an attitude here that the journalism in Scotland is sub-standard but the same people sticking with this line are saying they don’t buy newspapers and only get their news online.

I’m sorry but you are wrong. Scotland has some excellent journalists, Dani Garavelli, Paris Gourtsoyannis, Martyn McLaughlin to name but a few.

I had the pleasure of writing for Cable, a Scottish online publication which reported on global affairs from Scottish journalists across the world. The quality was right up there with premium titles but sadly it too failed.

Maybe the appetite for news has changed, maybe people don’t care about being informed or maybe people are just too sensitive about reading something which challenges their opinion and view of the world. I’d certainly recommend people pick up a newspaper, like The Scotsman or The Herald, and be surprised by the various views you’ll read while informing your own take on the world.