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  1. #31
    Coaching Staff Ozyhibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    I tend to agree.

    You can extend that to all parts of the media really and I’d include the Daily Record in Sun in that too.

    It’s fashionable just to call them rags and tell everyone you’ve never bought them for 20+ years yet folk still care what they have to say!

    We all want the press to write positive stuff about our club and show our rivals in the worst possible light. If they don’t, we slate them.

    Same goes for BBC or anyone else who passes comment on Scottish football.
    When newspapers take political positions then there are always people who will be happy to see them gone. Not sure why anyone is surprised by this?
    If the Daily Mail shut down tomorrow I would be delighted and not give a 2nd thought to anyone who worked there as they are there everyday doing something I fundamentally disagree with. I’ll be happy that they are about to get a new less hateful job and I’ll wish them well in their new life.
    We have almost full employment so their staff will quickly find new employment.


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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by oneone73 View Post
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    There's no void. All that's happened is that incompetent management have been able to shed the debt and walk away from employee pension obligations. The papers will actually be stronger.
    All that's happened is that, as usual, the workers - and that's not just the journalists - have been shafted. But chortle away, everyone.
    Yup, that just about nails it for me. I used to buy the Scotsman every day and the Saturday morning edition with the weekend supplement was different class.

    It had a broad editorial range as well from Massie through to the late great Ian Bell. Enter Andra Neil who at the behest of the odious Barclay brothers spiked any articles by the likes of Lesley Riddoch, and that balanced reporting that was the Scotsman's strong suit (IMO) was gone.

    Last time I read it the letters page was full of ex-army colonels and retired GPs with Perthshire and Morningside addresses barking at the moon.

    I think its circulation of actual bought copies had dropped to around 14,000 a day?

    As others have said though, as usual it's the workers that will suffer, and if there is a £40m hole in the pension fund then the directors should be held legally accountable for that.
    Last edited by Scotty Leither; 17-11-2018 at 09:56 AM.

  4. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    When newspapers take political positions then there are always people who will be happy to see them gone. Not sure why anyone is surprised by this?
    If the Daily Mail shut down tomorrow I would be delighted and not give a 2nd thought to anyone who worked there as they are there everyday doing something I fundamentally disagree with. I’ll be happy that they are about to get a new less hateful job and I’ll wish them well in their new life.
    We have almost full employment so their staff will quickly find new employment.


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    Using that logic, no job loss is worth caring about because, you know, full employment and that. They'll be back in a job quickly.

    Or the reality may be that any kind of job uncertainty, especially close to the end of the year, can have a devastating impact on the employees and their families.

    It's ironic given how often I get accused of being a Tory or a right-wing roaster (I'm neither btw - although I'll take the roaster bit) that this might be the first time I've ever thought 'FFS, he sounds like a particularly extreme Tory' about a poster.

  5. #34
    First Team Breakthrough MurrayfieldHibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty Leither View Post
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    Yup, that just about nails it for me. I used to buy the Scotsman every day and the Saturday morning edition with the weekend supplement was different class.

    It had a broad editorial range as well from Massie through to the late great Ian Bell. Enter Andra Neil who at the behest of the odious Barclay brothers spiked any articles by the likes of Lesley Riddoch, and that balanced reporting that was the Scotsman's strong suit (IMO) was gone.

    Last time I read it the letters page was full of ex-army colonels and retired GPs with Perthshire and Morningside addresses barking at the moon.

    I think its circulation of actual bought copies had dropped to around 14,000 a day?

    As others have said though, as usual it's the workers that will suffer, and if there is a £40m hole in the pension fund then the directors should be held legally accountable for that.
    The staff will take the pain from this - their pensions have been hit and there will no doubt be wage cuts and redundancies.

    It looks like the major shareholder isn't happy -
    https://twitter.com/Ian_Fraser/statu...25790762799105

    Like many others I stopped buying the Scotsman years ago due to their lies and political bias. The Scotsman was one of the many reasons I started reading on-line journalism as I knew I couldn't trust the papers I had been paying for.

    This looks like itis just a pre-pack to dump the debts (including pension liabilities) and restart with the same old bias.

  6. #35
    First Team Breakthrough MurrayfieldHibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurrayfieldHibs View Post
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    The staff will take the pain from this - their pensions have been hit and there will no doubt be wage cuts and redundancies.

    It looks like the major shareholder isn't happy -
    https://twitter.com/Ian_Fraser/statu...25790762799105

    Like many others I stopped buying the Scotsman years ago due to their lies and political bias. The Scotsman was one of the many reasons I started reading on-line journalism as I knew I couldn't trust the papers I had been paying for.

    This looks like itis just a pre-pack to dump the debts (including pension liabilities) and restart with the same old bias.
    Custos statement.jpg

  7. #36
    @hibs.net private member lord bunberry's Avatar
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    I’ve never liked the Scotsman, but the Evening News was a tradition for a huge number of people including me growing up. I used to deliver it when I was at school and I used to buy it every night as an adult. I remember looking out my bedroom window on a Saturday after the game to see the pink getting delivered and rushing down to get one.
    It’s quite sad that it turned into the awful newspaper that it has. It comes out in the morning and has not been printed in this area for years. It’s not just the sport that went downhill it’s everything about it. Hopefully it can be saved and people don’t lose their jobs, but I won’t be rushing to buy it anytime soon.

    United we stand here....

  8. #37
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ozyhibby View Post
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    When newspapers take political positions then there are always people who will be happy to see them gone. Not sure why anyone is surprised by this?
    If the Daily Mail shut down tomorrow I would be delighted and not give a 2nd thought to anyone who worked there as they are there everyday doing something I fundamentally disagree with. I’ll be happy that they are about to get a new less hateful job and I’ll wish them well in their new life.
    We have almost full employment so their staff will quickly find new employment.


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    Fair dos. I just don’t have that strong an opinion about a paper.

    I never read the News of the World but cant say I was clamouring for it to be shut down.

    Newspaper sales are probably declining everywhere but hopefully there will still be decent journalism in digital and tv.

    I think it’s really important, especially with things like Brexit and Trump to tackle.

    Football reporting is almost irrelevant due to social media and the tv exposure.

    I get most of my Hibs news on here and only ever check the EEN website if it’s linked from here.

  9. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by MurrayfieldHibs View Post
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    The staff will take the pain from this - their pensions have been hit and there will no doubt be wage cuts and redundancies.

    It looks like the major shareholder isn't happy -
    https://twitter.com/Ian_Fraser/statu...25790762799105

    Like many others I stopped buying the Scotsman years ago due to their lies and political bias. The Scotsman was one of the many reasons I started reading on-line journalism as I knew I couldn't trust the papers I had been paying for.

    This looks like itis just a pre-pack to dump the debts (including pension liabilities) and restart with the same old bias.
    100% this. All print media is going to struggle now but the Scotsman cut its own throat in setting itself up as a carping, snidey, whingey, reactionary voice against any positive change in this country - and doing it in the most turgid, dull and uninspired way possible. Yes, always sad when an old city institution bites the dust, and it has given voice to some decent writers over the years. But on balance its staid parochialism has sustained a culture of change aversive mediocrity which has held back this city and country for decades, and which urgently needs cast aside if we are ever going to emerge as a positive, dynamic and vibrant force in a rapidly changing world. So good riddance to that tired old claptrap. It won’t be missed at all.

  10. #39
    Ultimate Slaver Keith_M's Avatar
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    The Scotsman has turned into an ultra Unionist meeting point, with rabid anti-Scottish, too wee and too stupid articles and comments.

    If they do start up again under new ownership, I'd hope they do something about their editorial views and that nutters the frequent the comments section.



    The Evening News is the home of Banderson, so enuf said about that.

  11. #40
    Solipsist Eyrie's Avatar
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    Last time I looked the Scotsman had columns by Lesley Riddoch, Joyce McMillan, Kenny McAskill and Dani Garivelli, none of whom are unionist stooges.

    And if it's acceptable to have pro-independence papers then we need pro-union papers for balance. Both sides need held to account and politicians are too busy with petty point scoring to do that.

    Personally I'll continue to look for news from both sides because I'm not narrow minded enough to close my ears to what I don't agree with.
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  12. #41
    Testimonial Due seanshow's Avatar
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    With a bit of luck the written weegia will be closely behind going t*ts up.

    Time to celebrate the demise of the written press, good *** riddance.

  13. #42
    First Team Breakthrough MurrayfieldHibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keekaboo View Post
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    The Scotsman has turned into an ultra Unionist meeting point, with rabid anti-Scottish, too wee and too stupid articles and comments.

    If they do start up again under new ownership, I'd hope they do something about their editorial views and that nutters the frequent the comments section.



    The Evening News is the home of Banderson, so enuf said about that.
    What I want is balanced journalism covering all aspects of life in an unbased way. I currently support one particular political party and want them to be under scrutiny - same as all the other parties. I also want the management of my football team to be under scrutiny - imagine living in the Butcher era and being constantly told everything is ok?No thanks.

    Think this graphic says a lot-
    newspaper trust.jpg

  14. #43
    Interesting how many nats are crowing at the possibility of fellow Scots being thrown out of work.You can only work here if you agree with us eh?

  15. #44
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    What do people mean when they say the group is ditching its pension liabilities ?

  16. #45
    First Team Breakthrough MurrayfieldHibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    Interesting how many nats are crowing at the possibility of fellow Scots being thrown out of work.You can only work here if you agree with us eh?
    This is a classic example of the kind of quote (usually from Labour unionists) that put me off getting involved in this kind of discussion.

    Off to do some gardening!

  17. #46
    @hibs.net private member Lendo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lemonade View Post
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    What do people mean when they say the group is ditching its pension liabilities ?
    I’m assuming the pension scheme is being handed over to the Pension Protection Fund for management going forward. Means effectively that members will only receive 90% of the value of their fund and be capped at circa £35k pa.

  18. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lendo View Post
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    I’m assuming the pension scheme is being handed over to the Pension Protection Fund for management going forward. Means effectively that members will only receive 90% of the value of their fund and be capped at circa £35k pa.
    Thanks.

  19. #48
    Coaching Staff Glory Lurker's Avatar
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    Is the Pension Protection Fund effectively a taxpayer bail out, or do the contributions made to it by schemes while they are operating enough to let the Fund itself borrow what it needs to pay out?

  20. #49
    @hibs.net private member WhileTheChief..'s Avatar
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    Effectively the latter. Final salary schemes pay a levy.

  21. #50
    Ultimate Slaver Keith_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurrayfieldHibs View Post
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    What I want is balanced journalism covering all aspects of life in an unbased way. I currently support one particular political party and want them to be under scrutiny - same as all the other parties. I also want the management of my football team to be under scrutiny - imagine living in the Butcher era and being constantly told everything is ok?No thanks.

    Think this graphic says a lot-
    newspaper trust.jpg




    I totally agree.

    Balanced reporting would be a very good start. They could take a tip from the Herald, who seem to report politics in a reasonably fair way.

    Incidentally, they also have incredibly good articles on non OF teams, and I've read some gems related to Hibs recently.

  22. #51
    Ultimate Slaver Keith_M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ancient hibee View Post
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    Interesting how many nats are crowing at the possibility of fellow Scots being thrown out of work.You can only work here if you agree with us eh?

    No, the viewpoint has generally been a complaint about biased reporting. I can't argue with that.

  23. #52
    Coaching Staff Glory Lurker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhileTheChief.. View Post
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    Effectively the latter. Final salary schemes pay a levy.
    Thanks.

  24. #53
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    With their track record on reporting on independence I'll be cracking open a beer in celebration of this development.

  25. #54
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    Feel bad for the staff and don't think either the Scotsman or Evening News are as bad as some on here are suggesting.

    But ultimately like others our family used to get the Scotsman every day but haven't done so in years due to the general move online and also its decreasing quality. At this point I'm not sure what it wants to be - a high quality broadsheet or a click bait tabloid?

  26. #55
    There's been a steady decline in quality and quantity for years. The EEN is little more than a leaflet padded out with adverts now. Everyone I know who still buys it give the same answer when you ask why: 'for the deaths'.

    That sums up at least part of the problem.
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  27. #56
    @hibs.net private member One Day Soon's Avatar
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    If this was about the Michelin plant closing in Dundee it would rightly all be about how bad it is for the local economy, the workers affected, their families and the local supply chain. This is no different. And people are going to have their pensions plundered, just think about that. How would you feel if your pension was being smashed and the response was 'meh, it's a price worth paying'?

    I'm about as anti-Nat as it's possible to be - both on independence and on the performance of the Nats in running Scotland over the last 11 years - but if The National folded I'd think it was a bad day for our press in Scotland. Not perhaps, in my view, for journalistic standards but certainly for the notion of a plural media where democratic debate is supported by a range of opinion. The Scotsman does feature a wide range of contributors from people of both independence and union perspectives as others have already said and I'm not sure that the National does that. And anything that would leave us more dependent upon the tender mercies of the Red Tops for printed press new has to be a bad thing.

    It was important enough for Salmond in a previous life to want to try to lead a consortium to take it over too and while I'm not naive about his then motive with that it does speak to the importance of the paper.

    It's not clear either how it helps in the wooing stakes for pro-indy people to be gloating over its demise (though it looks to me more like a reinvention than a closing of doors) but in political terms that's their call.

  28. #57
    @hibs.net private member malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    If this was about the Michelin plant closing in Dundee it would rightly all be about how bad it is for the local economy, the workers affected, their families and the local supply chain. This is no different. And people are going to have their pensions plundered, just think about that. How would you feel if your pension was being smashed and the response was 'meh, it's a price worth paying'?

    I'm about as anti-Nat as it's possible to be - both on independence and on the performance of the Nats in running Scotland over the last 11 years - but if The National folded I'd think it was a bad day for our press in Scotland. Not perhaps, in my view, for journalistic standards but certainly for the notion of a plural media where democratic debate is supported by a range of opinion. The Scotsman does feature a wide range of contributors from people of both independence and union perspectives as others have already said and I'm not sure that the National does that. And anything that would leave us more dependent upon the tender mercies of the Red Tops for printed press new has to be a bad thing.

    It was important enough for Salmond in a previous life to want to try to lead a consortium to take it over too and while I'm not naive about his then motive with that it does speak to the importance of the paper.

    It's not clear either how it helps in the wooing stakes for pro-indy people to be gloating over its demise (though it looks to me more like a reinvention than a closing of doors) but in political terms that's their call.
    Sadly in reality probably not true since these days the whinging about media outlets that don’t confirm folks need to confirm their own bias is symptomatic of the end of ‘open eared’ debate and instead ‘fingers in the ears’ debate and fake news believers.

  29. #58
    First Team Regular Curried's Avatar
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    Absolutely no sympathy for the demise of this paper. It’s been pushing, anti-Scottish propaganda for years. I’m sure the green-ink gang will be scrambling to find a foothold elsewhere, but given its recent circulation was lower than the Courier (i.e. <14K), I doubt it will be missed by anyone other than the smattering of pensioners that still support its existence.

  30. #59
    @hibs.net private member BILLYHIBS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pretty Boy View Post
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    There's been a steady decline in quality and quantity for years. The EEN is little more than a leaflet padded out with adverts now. Everyone I know who still buys it give the same answer when you ask why: 'for the deaths'.

    That sums up at least part of the problem.
    Where am I going to check now to make sure I am still alive?

  31. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Day Soon View Post
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    If this was about the Michelin plant closing in Dundee it would rightly all be about how bad it is for the local economy, the workers affected, their families and the local supply chain. This is no different. And people are going to have their pensions plundered, just think about that. How would you feel if your pension was being smashed and the response was 'meh, it's a price worth paying'?

    I'm about as anti-Nat as it's possible to be - both on independence and on the performance of the Nats in running Scotland over the last 11 years - but if The National folded I'd think it was a bad day for our press in Scotland. Not perhaps, in my view, for journalistic standards but certainly for the notion of a plural media where democratic debate is supported by a range of opinion. The Scotsman does feature a wide range of contributors from people of both independence and union perspectives as others have already said and I'm not sure that the National does that. And anything that would leave us more dependent upon the tender mercies of the Red Tops for printed press new has to be a bad thing.

    It was important enough for Salmond in a previous life to want to try to lead a consortium to take it over too and while I'm not naive about his then motive with that it does speak to the importance of the paper.

    It's not clear either how it helps in the wooing stakes for pro-indy people to be gloating over its demise (though it looks to me more like a reinvention than a closing of doors) but in political terms that's their call.
    That’s a great post. Well said.
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