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  1. #331
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    So basically to keep the old school happy, everyone but the selected few who are established clubs with history and tradition, should just know their place and play accordingly?
    Not at all; I've said I don't begrudge clubs like Man City and Chelsea enjoying their success; I would enjoy it too. But I wouldn't expect anything less, if Hibs became the richest club in the world overnight, as Man City did when Mansoor bought it. If you can throw £1.4 billion at a problem, chances are the problem will be resolved. Money is everything at the top level now; gone are the days of Notts Forest winning two European Cups on a shoestring budget.

    These types of petro clubs have every right to enjoy their success, but we also have the right to explain what made it happen - a winning lottery ticket. It could have been Bolton Wanderers, or even Hibs!
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; Yesterday at 12:34 PM.
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  3. #332
    @hibs.net private member bingo70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    So basically to keep the old school happy, everyone but the selected few who are established clubs with history and tradition, should just know their place and play accordingly?
    I think the argument is that clubs should grow, within their means.

    I don't think clubs should know their place and stick to that but if a club was to develop a philosophy and grow naturally then that is likely to be more enjoyable than through an artificial influx of cash.

    I know there's not many examples of teams competing at the top end of the league for trophies but you could argue that's what the likes of Bournemouth, Swansea (pre-relegation), Brighton, Huddersfield etc have done. Bournemouth are probably a good example of a club punching well above their means without winning lots. Will their fans be enjoying this period more than the Man City fans? I suspect they probably will.

    If i was to move down south tomorrow and got to pick a team to support that i'd go to home and away, Man City would probably be one of the last teams i'd pick. (FWIW i think i'd probably pick someone like Crystal Palace, Everton or Newcastle)

  4. #333
    @hibs.net private member Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackpoolhibs View Post
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    So basically to keep the old school happy, everyone but the selected few who are established clubs with history and tradition, should just know their place and play accordingly?
    That’s pretty much it. Being elevated above your natural status by glory hunters is just as “dirty” as being funded by billionaires.

    How many clubs in places like Norway are struggling for support because it’s become normalised to “support” a team from Liverpool or Manchester? Places 99% of this support (who are responsible for their position) probably couldn’t point to on a map?

    City and Chelsea are a symptom of the disease caused by these “established” clubs, not the cause of it.

  5. #334
    @hibs.net private member blackpoolhibs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Not at all; I've said I don't begrudge clubs like Man City and Chelsea enjoying their success; I would enjoy it too. But I wouldn't expect anything less, if Hibs became the richest club in the world overnight, as Man City did when Mansoor bought it. If you can throw £1.4 billion at a problem, chances are the problem will be resolved. Money is everything at the top level now; gone are the days of Notts Forest winning two European Cups on a shoestring budget.

    These types of petro clubs have every right to enjoy their success, but we also have the right to explain what made it happen - a winning lottery ticket. It could have been Bolton Wanderers, or even Hibs!
    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    I think the argument is that clubs should grow, within their means.

    I don't think clubs should know their place and stick to that but if a club was to develop a philosophy and grow naturally then that is likely to be more enjoyable than through an artificial influx of cash.

    I know there's not many examples of teams competing at the top end of the league for trophies but you could argue that's what the likes of Bournemouth, Swansea (pre-relegation), Brighton, Huddersfield etc have done. Bournemouth are probably a good example of a club punching well above their means without winning lots. Will their fans be enjoying this period more than the Man City fans? I suspect they probably will.

    If i was to move down south tomorrow and got to pick a team to support that i'd go to home and away, Man City would probably be one of the last teams i'd pick. (FWIW i think i'd probably pick someone like Crystal Palace, Everton or Newcastle)
    I know what those arguing against these clubs who have come into money are saying, but i just disagree. Its shall we call it natural order taking its course for this part of their history and footballs history.

    We can get all sentimental over history and how its been achieved, but in reality its money that makes teams bigger and better, with the odd and it is very odd exception.

    Call it lottery wins, call it what you like, its happening now and will continue to happen, just like it did with bookies or toilet roll owners in the past, its just bigger sums and jealousy by those who were top dogs and are being replaced with new and bigger amounts.

    I'd take a rich sheik at Easter Road as our new owner, and wouldn't think twice about it when we were winning leagues and competing in the Champions league.

    What is it about fans who prefer mundane self funded monotony, i certainly don't understand it?

  6. #335
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    Quote Originally Posted by bingo70 View Post
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    I think the argument is that clubs should grow, within their means.

    I don't think clubs should know their place and stick to that but if a club was to develop a philosophy and grow naturally then that is likely to be more enjoyable than through an artificial influx of cash.

    I know there's not many examples of teams competing at the top end of the league for trophies but you could argue that's what the likes of Bournemouth, Swansea (pre-relegation), Brighton, Huddersfield etc have done. Bournemouth are probably a good example of a club punching well above their means without winning lots. Will their fans be enjoying this period more than the Man City fans? I suspect they probably will.

    If i was to move down south tomorrow and got to pick a team to support that i'd go to home and away, Man City would probably be one of the last teams i'd pick. (FWIW i think i'd probably pick someone like Crystal Palace, Everton or Newcastle)

    Thanks for including my home town team. You are now on my Christmas card list.

  7. #336
    @hibs.net private member Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    I'm not totally sure that's right. There is a chat that Man City fans are finding the tiki taka a bit boring. Which probably doesn't help the atmosphere. It probably also doesn't help that there are only a handful of clubs in the world that will actually have a go at Citeh and not just defend for 90 mins. So it's a bit like watching the school bully kick the wee boy from the year below in the playground.

    And it IS definitely more satisfying to be a Leicester fan winning the league than a City fan. Because you haven't got all your mates going "aye but you just bought the league' 'where were you when you when you were ****' etc etc. It must be annoying.

    There was a good chat about it on totally podcast yesterday. Rafael Honegstein said that Bayern fans were similar when Pep was there. Yes winning is great, but can we get the ball forward a bit quicker please?!

    Spoilt bassas I say.
    I think the only team who can claim not to have “bought” the title in the modern era is indeed Leicester. You could argue for the early Man U team with Beckham etc..but they were had financial muscle beyond most others and used it.

    I didn’t listen to the podcast but some people (the British in particular) being bored with this style of football came to my attention when Spain were at their pomp. “Boringly brilliant” was the often repeated by those analysing their games.

    Is their something in our sporting DNA that finds all this too effeminate while preferring the devastating way that Leicester smashed and grabbed their way to the title?

    “Just get it forward!!!”😂

  8. #337
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gloryhunter View Post
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    Thanks for including my home town team. You are now on my Christmas card list.
    Croydon?
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  9. #338
    Coaching Staff hibsbollah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    I think the only team who can claim not to have “bought” the title in the modern era is indeed Leicester. You could argue for the early Man U team with Beckham etc..but they were had financial muscle beyond most others and used it.

    I didn’t listen to the podcast but some people (the British in particular) being bored with this style of football came to my attention when Spain were at their pomp. “Boringly brilliant” was the often repeated by those analysing their games.

    Is their something in our sporting DNA that finds all this too effeminate while preferring the devastating way that Leicester smashed and grabbed their way to the title?

    “Just get it forward!!!”😂
    There's the style of play which is one thing (the better your players, the more Incentive you have to devise a game plan to maximise the touches and create the biggest spaces possible) but there's also the effect on Sporting Competition. Monopoly capitalism in the world of football means that the top players are levitating to the top teams at such a rate that the Juves, PSGs, Bayern's are winning every year. Dortmund this season, Leicester in 2015 give us some welcome relief from time to time but the reality is that FFP needs to grow some cojones and actually do their job.

  10. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    There's the style of play which is one thing (the better your players, the more Incentive you have to devise a game plan to maximise the touches and create the biggest spaces possible) but there's also the effect on Sporting Competition. Monopoly capitalism in the world of football means that the top players are levitating to the top teams at such a rate that the Juves, PSGs, Bayern's are winning every year. Dortmund this season, Leicester in 2015 give us some welcome relief from time to time but the reality is that FFP needs to grow some cojones and actually do their job.
    The counter argument is that FFP perpetuates the status quo, making it not even breakable-by-oligarch. It's only by capping spend way below what clubs actually earn that you could fix that.

  11. #340
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hibsbollah View Post
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    There's the style of play which is one thing (the better your players, the more Incentive you have to devise a game plan to maximise the touches and create the biggest spaces possible) but there's also the effect on Sporting Competition. Monopoly capitalism in the world of football means that the top players are levitating to the top teams at such a rate that the Juves, PSGs, Bayern's are winning every year. Dortmund this season, Leicester in 2015 give us some welcome relief from time to time but the reality is that FFP needs to grow some cojones and actually do their job.
    Man City are great to watch, as were Guardiola's Bayern Munich and Barcelona teams. The FFP rules seem to have slipped by the wayside recently. Aren't City currently being investigated for possible misuse of sponsorships, in order to inflate income and thus spending? Basically accused of sponsoring themselves. Wherever you find big money, you find shady practices, be it in football or anywhere else. There is always one set of laws for the rich and another set for everyone else. The transfer fees and wages at the top clubs are outrageous but show no signs of slowing. Whether it's sustainable long term is an interesting question; perhaps today's game will be looked back upon as a gilded age akin to the last days of Rome. Then again, perhaps the current trend will keep rolling along. My hunch is that the gap between the mega clubs and the rest will continue to grow, just as inequality in wider society will keep growing.
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; Yesterday at 02:42 PM.
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  12. #341
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    The counter argument is that FFP perpetuates the status quo, making it not even breakable-by-oligarch. It's only by capping spend way below what clubs actually earn that you could fix that.
    That won't happen, as it's the biggest and most powerful clubs which dominate UEFA.
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  13. #342
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    That won't happen, as it's the biggest and most powerful clubs which dominate UEFA.


    The only way it would happen is post a big club breakaway where they already had a closed shop. Like the NFL. At that point, it makes good sense for club owners to keep costs down.

  14. #343
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Man City are great to watch, as were Guardiola's Bayern Munich and Barcelona teams. The FFP rules seem to have slipped by the wayside recently. Aren't City currently being investigated for possible misuse of sponsorships, in order to inflate income and thus spending? Basically accused of sponsoring themselves. Wherever you find big money, you find shady practices, be it in football or anywhere else. There is always one set of laws for the rich and another set for everyone else. The transfer fees and wages at the top clubs are outrageous but show no signs of slowing. Whether it's sustainable long term is an interesting question; perhaps today's game will be looked back upon as a gilded age akin to the last days of Rome. Then again, perhaps the current trend will keep rolling along. My hunch is that the gap between the mega clubs and the rest will continue to grow, just as inequality in wider society will keep growing.
    It's not so much sponsoring themselves that's the problem as doing so at way above market rates.

  15. #344
    Coaching Staff Haymaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeMeSouviens View Post
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    It's not so much sponsoring themselves that's the problem as doing so at way above market rates.
    think their stadium branding was ridiculous.

  16. #345
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haymaker View Post
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    think their stadium branding was ridiculous.
    In other words, cheating. I propose immediate expulsion from UEFA competitions, transfer ban for five years with all assets frozen. Interpol crawling all over the place, HMRC also seizing computers. Also immediate closure of all oil wells in the middle-east and conversion to 100 per cent renewables. Good for the planet, good for fitba

    Motion carried.
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; Yesterday at 04:44 PM.
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  17. #346
    First Team Breakthrough MackTheKnife's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    In other words, cheating. I propose immediate expulsion from UEFA competitions, transfer ban for five years with all assets frozen. Interpol crawling all over the place, HMRC also seizing computers. Also immediate closure of all oil wells in the middle-east and conversion to 100 per cent renewables. Good for the planet, good for fitba

    Motion carried.

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