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  1. #1

    Persimmon Cheif Exec £75million bonus

    Absolutely disgusting. What kind of a world are we living in?


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member cabbageandribs1875's Avatar
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    don't be so heartless, it was reduced from 100m after a public outcry, how's the poor man expected to survive on a measly 75m

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by cabbageandribs1875 View Post
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    don't be so heartless, it was reduced from 100m after a public outcry, how's the poor man expected to survive on a measly 75m

    I suppose when you put it like that, I feel a wee bit sorry for him now

  5. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weegreenman View Post
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    Absolutely disgusting. What kind of a world are we living in?
    A Help to Buy world?

    Shocking / Disgusting levels of remuneration though and just reinforces the fact that executive pay and the checks and balances shareholders are meant to bring to such things are simply not working.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    A Help to Buy world?

    Shocking / Disgusting levels of remuneration though and just reinforces the fact that executive pay and the checks and balances shareholders are meant to bring to such things are simply not working.

    Beggers belief that that this was a formula made up by his fellow directors/ Execs As was mentioned above it was actually up at £100million but to save embarrassment he agreed to give away £25million. You couldnít make this **** up. Laws need to be introduced to stop this type of thing from happening in a time were food banks are more common than ever before. Iíll say it again, disgusting!

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Weegreenman View Post
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    Beggers belief that that this was a formula made up by his fellow directors/ Execs As was mentioned above it was actually up at £100million but to save embarrassment he agreed to give away £25million. You couldnít make this **** up. Laws need to be introduced to stop this type of thing from happening in a time were food banks are more common than ever before. Iíll say it again, disgusting!
    would you say no if it was you though?

  8. #7
    [QUOTE=allant1981;5598689]would you say no if it was you though?[/QUOTE

    If I said yes, you wouldnít believe me

  9. #8
    @hibs.net private member Speedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSloan View Post
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    A Help to Buy world?

    Shocking / Disgusting levels of remuneration though and just reinforces the fact that executive pay and the checks and balances shareholders are meant to bring to such things are simply not working.
    The pay award was linked to company performance.

    If I was a shareholder I'd have been delighted with him.

  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member GlesgaeHibby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
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    The pay award was linked to company performance.

    If I was a shareholder I'd have been delighted with him.
    Company performance that has seen a huge amount of growth due to a government policy, funded by the taxpayer and not something that the Chief Exec has done. Outcry was warranted.

    I find it remarkable that they sell the amount of houses they do, as the built quality is terrible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
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    The pay award was linked to company performance.

    If I was a shareholder I'd have been delighted with him.
    But how much of that performance was due to him and his team and how much due to general market conditions and the ridiculous gift of public money to the house builders?

    Sure the SP going from £4 to £24 over the term of the plan was great for shareholders but then again thatís the reward for being a shareholder, you own the company.

    Excessive executive bonus awards and in this case not just for Jeff but for the whole executive team are actually detrimental to shareholders. Itís no surprise to see the main architects of the bonus plan scuttle off one by one while trousering hundreds of millions of pounds of shareholders money. The amount should have been capped and quite clearly the plan was overly generous to the recipients at the expense of ordinary shareholders.

    I often see excessive bonus plans and options being gifted to boards across multiple companies. And while the basic premise of incentivising the excís is probably a sound one (debatable though as you could argue they are already being paid to do a good job!) itís been used and abused on a daily basis with this just being a rather public showing of whatís going on in board rooms up and down the country.

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member Mibbes Aye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlesgaeHibby View Post
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    Company performance that has seen a huge amount of growth due to a government policy, funded by the taxpayer and not something that the Chief Exec has done. Outcry was warranted.

    I find it remarkable that they sell the amount of houses they do, as the built quality is terrible.
    Privatised profit and nationalised risk.

    Sometimes it's deliberate policy as in this case, sometimes it is unavoidable, as in the bank bailouts ten years ago.

    Either way it reflects a system that is utterly, utterly wrong and that has evolved to serve vested interests.

    Capitalism was meant to be survival of the fittest. The reality is a cesspool of corrupt practices and an economic system that is thoroughly gamed towards the self-interests of a small group.

    I read "The Ragged-Trousered Philanthropists" in my teens. It was a scalding account of how the economic system was rigged to suit certain groups, in the years between the two world wars. Its author, Robert Tressell, would be both simultaneously disgusted and unsurprised by the situation we are in now, I suspect.
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  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy View Post
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    The pay award was linked to company performance.

    If I was a shareholder I'd have been delighted with him.
    And what of you were an employee, perhaps having your pension scheme diminished or your hours cut; perhaps being laid off for profit maximisation? You know, the people who do the work and created that £75 million bonus for one guy.
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  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allant1981 View Post
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    would you say no if it was you though?
    To a bonus of £75 million, when I already earn multiple times the salary of many in the company ? Of course I'd say no; share it equally amongst all the staff.

    We seem to live in a world now where nobody ever asks themselves how much is enough. There was a time only a few decades ago when CEO's of publicly listed companies earned twenty or thirty times the amount of the average employee; now it's multiplies in the hundreds. How much is reasonable: how about a £500 million bonus or a £1 billion bonus for one guy - take it, no questions asked; any amount is fully deserved and fair?
    Last edited by Hibernia&Alba; 08-11-2018 at 08:02 AM.
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  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    And what of you were an employee, perhaps having your pension scheme diminished or your hours cut; perhaps being laid off for profit maximisation? You know, the people who do the work and created that £75 million bonus for one guy.
    Perhaps, or maybe employees all own shares via company sharesave schemes and have benefitted significantly as well. Maybe their pension investments also had shares in the company and as a result their pension value has been boosted.

    Always another side to a story.

  16. #15
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James310 View Post
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    Perhaps, or maybe employees all own shares via company sharesave schemes and have benefitted significantly as well. Maybe their pension investments also had shares in the company and as a result their pension value has been boosted.

    Always another side to a story.
    The two sides of the scales have been tipped heavily in favour of capital and against labour since the neoliberal experiment began forty years ago. Fewer and fewer companies offer final salary pension schemes, for example; more and more use short term contracts, with ever higher remuneration for boardrooms vis-ŗ-vis shop floor. Productivity has increased steadily since the 1970s, but wages haven't. Capital is extracting more and more from labour but giving less and less.
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  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    To a bonus of £75 million, when I already earn multiple times the salary of many in the company ? Of course I'd say no; share it equally amongst all the staff.

    We seem to live in a world now where nobody ever asks themselves how much is enough. There was a time only a few decades ago when CEO's of publicly listed companies earned twenty or thirty times the amount of the average employee; now it's multiplies in the hundreds. How much is reasonable: how about a £500 million bonus or a £1 billion bonus for one guy - take it, no questions asked; any amount is fully deserved and fair?
    very easy to say that when you arent being offered all that money, i agree its a ridiculous amount of money but i would bet there are very few people would genuinely say no if it was offered to them

  18. #17
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allant1981 View Post
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    very easy to say that when you arent being offered all that money, i agree its a ridiculous amount of money but i would bet there are very few people would genuinely say no if it was offered to them
    Definitely. I find it hard to believe anyone would be offered £75m and say ďNa, split it between everyone elseĒ. Fair play to you if you would, but I know I wouldnít.

  19. #18
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allant1981 View Post
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    very easy to say that when you arent being offered all that money, i agree its a ridiculous amount of money but i would bet there are very few people would genuinely say no if it was offered to them
    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Definitely. I find it hard to believe anyone would be offered £75m and say “Na, split it between everyone else”. Fair play to you if you would, but I know I wouldn’t.
    You would take £75 million just for bonus for doing your job? Mind this is on top of a huge salary. Nobody needs that. Okay, I'll compromise, one million for me and 74 million to split between all employees. One million is huge and more than ample; 75 million is an outrage and totally undeserved by any measure.

    What if the bonus was £500 million just for yourselves. Would you take it? There has to be a social conscience which kicks in at some point.
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  20. #19
    @hibs.net private member Sergio sledge's Avatar
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    To be fair, the shares were worth 16% of what they are now when the bonus scheme was suggested so his bonus would only have been a paltry £12.5m, how he could have survived on that plus his £40m per year remuneration I don't know.

    Seriously though, whoever came up with this scheme and didn't think to put a cap on the amount of bonus available has messed up big time.

  21. #20
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio sledge View Post
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    To be fair, the shares were worth 16% of what they are now when the bonus scheme was suggested so his bonus would only have been a paltry £12.5m, how he could have survived on that plus his £40m per year remuneration I don't know.

    Seriously though, whoever came up with this scheme and didn't think to put a cap on the amount of bonus available has messed up big time.
    Salary is £40 million per year??
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  22. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    You would take £75 million just for bonus for doing your job? Mind this is on top of a huge salary. Nobody needs that. Okay, I'll compromise, one million for me and 74 million to split between all employees. One million is huge and more than ample; 75 million is an outrage and totally undeserved by any measure.

    What if the bonus was £500 million just for yourselves. Would you take it? There has to be a social conscience which kicks in at some point.
    of course id take it, every single member of my family would never worry about money again, my kids would lead a very good life forever. if that makes me greedy or a bad person then id happily live with that.

  23. #22
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by allant1981 View Post
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    of course id take it, every single member of my family would never worry about money again, my kids would lead a very good life forever. if that makes me greedy or a bad person then id happily live with that.
    Pretty much the way I see it. Could set up myself, family, friends, generation upon generation of my family in future, do some good in my local community, donate significant sums to charities etc.

    No way would I turn it down and like you said if that for some reason makes me a bad person then so be it although Iíd suggest the vast majority of people would do the same.

  24. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Pretty much the way I see it. Could set up myself, family, friends, generation upon generation of my family in future, do some good in my local community, donate significant sums to charities etc.

    No way would I turn it down and like you said if that for some reason makes me a bad person then so be it although Iíd suggest the vast majority of people would do the same.

    It doesnít make it right though does it? We should always, always be striving for a much fairer world. This isnít right and it shouldnít be allowed to happen.

  25. #24
    @hibs.net private member calumhibee1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weegreenman View Post
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    It doesnít make it right though does it? We should always, always be striving for a much fairer world. This isnít right and it shouldnít be allowed to happen.
    Definitely, Iím not saying itís fair. But I think people suggesting the guy should be ashamed for accepting it are kidding themselves on a bit.

  26. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio sledge View Post
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    To be fair, the shares were worth 16% of what they are now when the bonus scheme was suggested so his bonus would only have been a paltry £12.5m, how he could have survived on that plus his £40m per year remuneration I don't know.

    Seriously though, whoever came up with this scheme and didn't think to put a cap on the amount of bonus available has messed up big time.
    His annual salary is less than £3/4m IIRC. Not to be sniffed at, mind you. I think the figure you quoted might include all/part of the bonus that this thread is about.

  27. #26
    @hibs.net private member Hibs Class's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by calumhibee1 View Post
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    Definitely, Iím not saying itís fair. But I think people suggesting the guy should be ashamed for accepting it are kidding themselves on a bit.
    He was ashamed, or at least embarrassed. On BBC interview he walked off when asked the question about pay, saying "I'd rather not talk about that" and that it was unfortunate that the interviewer had even asked the question.

    Most definitely a failure in corporate governance
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  28. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Hibs Class View Post
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    He was ashamed, or at least embarrassed. On BBC interview he walked off when asked the question about pay, saying "I'd rather not talk about that" and that it was unfortunate that the interviewer had even asked the question.

    Most definitely a failure in corporate governance
    dont think he was embarassed about getting the money, more to do with the questions being asked about it and the negative publicity he was getting. I may be wrong though but it didnt come over that way

  29. #28
    @hibs.net private member danhibees1875's Avatar
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    I'd certainly not be saying no.

    Looks like he's ended up being asked to leave on the back of it, not sure all the ins and outs but effectively a pretty sweet golden handshake!
    Mon the Hibs.

  30. #29
    @hibs.net private member Sergio sledge's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefster View Post
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    His annual salary is less than £3/4m IIRC. Not to be sniffed at, mind you. I think the figure you quoted might include all/part of the bonus that this thread is about.
    Yes, my mistake it did include part of that bonus.

    Edit: actually its a bit unclear whether the £45m last year was part of this £75m or in addition to t. I'm maybe not reading this correctly though: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...-a8385781.html
    Last edited by Sergio sledge; 08-11-2018 at 01:30 PM.

  31. #30
    @hibs.net private member Speedy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlesgaeHibby View Post
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    Company performance that has seen a huge amount of growth due to a government policy, funded by the taxpayer and not something that the Chief Exec has done. Outcry was warranted.

    I find it remarkable that they sell the amount of houses they do, as the built quality is terrible.
    Perhaps but I'd say the current outcry is misdirected.

    Taxpayers being disgruntled I can understand but as a shareholder I'd be fairly content.

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