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  1. #1
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Money: The greatest scam in history.

    Following on from a post I made in the Labour Party thread, here's a good explanation of the system which rules our lives; a system which, we are told, is the meaning of our lives, yet is never discussed and never explained. Instead there is a tacist and unquestioning attitude that this money system is unalterable and entirely natural. The alchemy of the system should provoke serious questions, yet we continue to base our lives around it. 'Sound money'; 'no magic money tree'; 'financially literate' - all are phrases thrown around, yet, when did you ever hear a discussion of the fundamentals of said system? It's bizarre. Take a look and think about it.

    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875


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  3. #2
    @hibs.net private member Pete's Avatar
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    Oddly enough, Im actually studying the subject of money just now as part of a module. How it came about, how it has developed, how it (or more specifically, how debt) makes the world go round etc...

    One academic (Michael Sandel) has a firm viewpoint that the rapid changes in the role and meaning of money result in the increasing commodification of too many areas of our lives. The market economy has now grown arms and legs and become so integrated in our lives we are now a market society, where practically anything is up for sale. This is intensifying inequality and if not checked, could become disastrous.

    I agree with him and its bizarre to think that this system, which involves exchanges of things with absolutely no physical value, dictates practically every aspect of our lives.

  4. #3
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    Oddly enough, Im actually studying the subject of money just now as part of a module. How it came about, how it has developed, how it (or more specifically, how debt) makes the world go round etc...

    One academic (Michael Sandel) has a firm viewpoint that the rapid changes in the role and meaning of money result in the increasing commodification of too many areas of our lives. The market economy has now grown arms and legs and become so integrated in our lives we are now a market society, where practically anything is up for sale. This is intensifying inequality and if not checked, could become disastrous.

    I agree with him and its bizarre to think that this system, which involves exchanges of things with absolutely no physical value, dictates practically every aspect of our lives.
    There is a wonderful book, 'Where Does Money Come From', by Josh Ryan-Collins, Tony Greenham, Richard Werner and Andrew Jackson. We live our lives in accordance with an artificial construct, but fool ourselves into thinking its laws are as natural as gravity or molecular structure, when this is entirely wrong. Economics is a man made construct - only human beings use a money system - yet it controls our societies and dictates how we live our lives. How many of us ever ponder what life would be like without a money system?

    An excellent documentary, based upon the book I mention. Might help you, Pete.

    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  5. #4
    First Team Breakthrough Euchrid's Avatar
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    The first three chapters of 'Capital' are fascinating on where the concept comes from. Bit of a slog mind!

  6. #5
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Euchrid View Post
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    The first three chapters of 'Capital' are fascinating on where the concept comes from. Bit of a slog mind!
    Indeed, not light reading but one of the most important works ever written.
    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  7. #6
    @hibs.net private member GreenLake's Avatar
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    There is nothing to see here, move along.

  8. #7
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenLake View Post
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    There is nothing to see here, move along.


    Far more important things happening in the world. Is X-Factor back on?

    The 97 per cent owned documentary should be watched by everybody. It should be compulsory for every child in their final year of high school.
    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    Oddly enough, Im actually studying the subject of money just now as part of a module. How it came about, how it has developed, how it (or more specifically, how debt) makes the world go round etc...

    One academic (Michael Sandel) has a firm viewpoint that the rapid changes in the role and meaning of money result in the increasing commodification of too many areas of our lives. The market economy has now grown arms and legs and become so integrated in our lives we are now a market society, where practically anything is up for sale. This is intensifying inequality and if not checked, could become disastrous.

    I agree with him and its bizarre to think that this system, which involves exchanges of things with absolutely no physical value, dictates practically every aspect of our lives.
    I done that module last year. Thought it was enjoyable overall, and found Michael Sandel interesting.

  10. #9
    @hibs.net private member Pete's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by adhibs View Post
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    I done that module last year. Thought it was enjoyable overall, and found Michael Sandel interesting.
    Well youd better clear your PM inbox. 😁

    To be honest Im loving the module. Its very broad based and a good platform for so many subjects but Im maybe starting to overthink it. Fascinating way of looking at the world.

    Started reading capital but got bogged down. Ill stick with the bullet points and the idiots version before I move onto the philosophy part of my studies 😆

  11. #10
    Its not just money. I read Sapiens not that long ago and the author argues that pretty much every law/rule/system that we live our lives by is just a shared myth.

  12. #11
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    Well youd better clear your PM inbox. 😁

    To be honest Im loving the module. Its very broad based and a good platform for so many subjects but Im maybe starting to overthink it. Fascinating way of looking at the world.

    Started reading capital but got bogged down. Ill stick with the bullet points and the idiots version before I move onto the philosophy part of my studies 😆
    I would suggest a study guide to accompany Capital, because it's easy to lose the wood for the trees in such a detailed study. The best I have come across dates back to the 1970s, 'The Structure of Marx's World View', by John McMurty. It goes through all the key ideas in plain English and is excellent.
    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  13. #12
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    I'm learning a lot about this, using my internet connection and laptop that I paid for with paper rectangles.

    In all seriousness though, what I find astonishing is the sheer volume of people who actually buy into the lie that there is a world wide debt crisis that we all need to pay for.

    All money comes into our posession through the central banking network. But in order for the money to be obtained from the bank, it has to be borrowed. Borrowing money comes with interest that then needs to be paid back. But in order for the interest to be covered, more money needs to be printed, which then results in more money being borrowed from the bank to pay back the interest, resulting in even higher interest debt taking its place.

    There's more debt than money that physically exists, so the only option is to print new money and borrow that. Which ultimately results in that debt figure getting even higher. It can only ever go up and can never go down.

  14. #13
    @hibs.net private member Hibernia&Alba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fife-Hibee View Post
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    I'm learning a lot about this, using my internet connection and laptop that I paid for with paper rectangles.

    In all seriousness though, what I find astonishing is the sheer volume of people who actually buy into the lie that there is a world wide debt crisis that we all need to pay for.

    All money comes into our posession through the central banking network. But in order for the money to be obtained from the bank, it has to be borrowed. Borrowing money comes with interest that then needs to be paid back. But in order for the interest to be covered, more money needs to be printed, which then results in more money being borrowed from the bank to pay back the interest, resulting in even higher interest debt taking its place.

    There's more debt than money that physically exists, so the only option is to print new money and borrow that. Which ultimately results in that debt figure getting even higher. It can only ever go up and can never go down.
    Only three per cent of U.K. 'wealth' is currency printed/minted by the central bank; 97 per cent is debt created by commercial banks. If you take out a loan, the economy 'grows' by that amount, though the money doesn't exist; it has been invented on a computer. If you haven't watched the documentary above, give it a watch.
    HIBERNIAN FC - ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF HISTORY SINCE 1875

  15. #14
    @hibs.net private member Fife-Hibee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hibernia&Alba View Post
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    Only three per cent of U.K. 'wealth' is currency printed/minted by the central bank; 97 per cent is debt created by commercial banks. If you take out a loan, the economy 'grows' by that amount, though the money doesn't exist; it has been invented on a computer. If you haven't watched the documentary above, give it a watch.
    My point is about the interest on that cash. Whether it's physical or digital. All money carries interest, therefore the interest can never be paid off, because it requires more borrowing, which results in more interest. It's a never ending cycle of ever increasing interest.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete View Post
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    Well you’d better clear your PM inbox. ��

    To be honest I’m loving the module. It’s very broad based and a good platform for so many subjects but I’m maybe starting to overthink it. Fascinating way of looking at the world.

    Started reading capital but got bogged down. I’ll stick with the bullet points and the idiots version before I move onto the philosophy part of my studies ��

    haha, feel free if you have any questions. although my memory is pretty brutal, so doubt ill be any help

    I'm now doing DD213 - Environment and Society. It builds on some of the ideas and concepts of DD103, and have to say I'm enjoying the familiarity.
    Last edited by adhibs; Yesterday at 09:23 PM.

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